alkemyst
No Lifer
- Feb 13, 2001
- 83,967
- 19
- 81
For many ebay is not a real business for one, and two for those that use it as a real business then don't add terms and conditions that were not presented. Also expecting same day or even 24 hour service should not be expected.
Also even big retailers reserve the right to not honor print errors which is what happened here.
The seller was more, far more than reasonable to credit money back...but nothing could have been done for a package already sent.
The big problem with ebay buyers that don't understand the system (and usually the same people expecting Nordstrom's service at a WalMart) is they are looking for a full-service experience from something not designed for that.
I have a good deal of experience with ebay as both buyer and private seller, as well as a power seller for a few years of high end network gear.
The huge problems are usually a buyer doesn't try to ask you the questions they should prior to sale and then all of a sudden begin questioning everything post sale. Even as far as asking for additional pictures of obscure things and explaination as to what 'some fine scratches not noticible) really means.
The most classic case (maybe you were the buyer) was selling a pager cover for $5 back 5 years ago +. At the time phone numbers were available and this guy would call and call for months eventually wanting a replacement because he accidentially washed it.
I end up donating low end items now or trashing them.
Zenmervolt
Elite member
- Oct 22, 2000
- 24,512
- 21
- 81
None of your examples are contracts, and none of them are even close to analogous.
Furthermore, retailers reserve the right not to honor printing errors because they do not create the ads themselves, but rather contract with third party vendors to create the ads. Retailers do no honor printing errors because they are not the ones responsible for the printing errors. Not only that, but most retailers do honor mistakes they make with in-store pricing. I have had a couple occasions at Best Buy where in-store sale displays have been left up after the sale was officially over. Both times the store honored the prices on the displays even though the sale price was no longer officially valid.
The eBay page listed Priority Mail shipping. Therefore, the seller is contractually obligated to provide Priority Mail shipping. The page was created by the seller himself and not by a third party, therefore the seller is personally responsible for the error.
The right thing to do in this instance would have been to ship via Priority Mail and eat the additional cost. We are responsible for our own mistakes.
If I post in the wrong thread and get mocked for it, that's my own fault. If I answer "yes" to a question that I meant to answer "no" to and fail a test because of it, that's my own fault, I don't go blaming the person grading the test. If I type my systems password in wrong at work three times and get locked out of the system, that's my own fault, I don't go blaming the computer for not knowing what I meant to type, nor do I blame the security admin for setting up the system unreasonably.
ZV
alkemyst
No Lifer
- Feb 13, 2001
- 83,967
- 19
- 81
ebay allows for mistakes to be handled.
The auction in question showed two different shipping methods ... one flat rate for $X and the other priority for $x ...this should have been handled via questioning the seller.
A seller on ebay is not a retailer. Also a retailer only has to honor their mistake if it's deemed part of a bait and switch. Otherwise you could have Joe Stockboy pricing $500 GPU's for $50 to stick it to the store.
I think people are creating rules and policies to ensure they screw people making honest mistakes.
The auction in question showed two different shipping methods ... one flat rate for $X and the other priority for $x ...this should have been handled via questioning the seller.
A seller on ebay is not a retailer. Also a retailer only has to honor their mistake if it's deemed part of a bait and switch. Otherwise you could have Joe Stockboy pricing $500 GPU's for $50 to stick it to the store.
I think people are creating rules and policies to ensure they screw people making honest mistakes.
Zenmervolt
Elite member
- Oct 22, 2000
- 24,512
- 21
- 81
I don't think it's reasonable to assume that the buyer will read through 100% of the description to notice the $15 reference that is buried in a large block of text, especially when the two dedicated places in the auction clearly list the shipping amount as $12 and the method as "Priority Mail". If the method said "See Description", then it would be reasonable to assume that the buyer should have noticed the discrepancy. However, as it stands, there's no reason why a buyer would look for a shipping cost listed in the description.
And even then, "flat rate" is not a shipping method. "Flat rate" doesn't say anything whatsoever about the method that will be used, it just notifies the buyer that the seller is not computing actual shipping cost and is instead using a standard, "flat" charge. There is only one shipping method mentioned, and that method is Priority Mail.
"Required by law" and "right thing to do" are often different. There's also a difference between an error and a malicious act, which means your "Joe Stockboy" example is not a valid comparison. Most retailers will honor legitimate mistakes as long as those mistakes are "reasonable". That is, as long as a reasonable person could expect the erroneous price to be accurate, they will usually honor is if the mistake is theirs. For example, if they leave up a 10% off sign on memory cards, they will usually honor it. If someone puts a $50 tag on an item that sells otherwise for $500, they won't because any reasonable person knows that's an obvious mistake.
In this case, the mistake is not obvious.
Or we're simply looking at what we would do ourselves in the seller's position and judging him based on that.
If it had been me and I had made the same mistake as the seller, I would have simply shipped via Priority Mail and lived with the price difference. It's an old tradition, now out of style, called "personal accountability".
ZV
Leave neg or neutral, if anything I usually upgrade people's shipping for free because I don't trust the option they paid for.
alkemyst
No Lifer
- Feb 13, 2001
- 83,967
- 19
- 81
It was to me, whenever I see an item title or picture that doesn't match the description I will contact the seller if I am serious on bidding.
In reality, you will have people insisting on getting that $500 for $50 and claiming they will sue over it.
It's easy for people to say what they would do when they don't have any idea of the real situation. What this seller did was more than adequate. The package was already shipped via the method he thought he was paid. It was impossible for him at that time to wave his magic e-weiner and change the shipping method.
Look at my ebay and heatware feedback before you call me a liar.
I offer the cheap shipping option to get the bids, but end up with a good profit anyway, its a loss leader tactic.
You are extremely disrepectful and your comment was uncalled for.
Zenmervolt
Elite member
- Oct 22, 2000
- 24,512
- 21
- 81
Assuming that the mistake wasn't known until after he had shipped (which seems unlikely given the seller's comments, which would indicate that he believed the phrase "flat rate" trumped the shipping method chosen in the drop-down), I would have refunded the full shipping charges. It really is just that simple.
ZV
I don't think there's much you can do...that's the corrupted side of eBay.
I remember one time that I bought an unactivated SIM card from this asshat wholesale guy off eBay. He had the guts to charge me some unreasonable amount of shipping, then tore open the SIM card package (the wrap and back cardboard), popped it out of that credit card mold, and dropped it in a plain white envelope and mailed it to me without a return address on a 37c stamp.
And when I tried to contact him and ask for explanation, no response. Gave him a neutral feedback and he retaliated with a negative. That bastard.
I remember one time that I bought an unactivated SIM card from this asshat wholesale guy off eBay. He had the guts to charge me some unreasonable amount of shipping, then tore open the SIM card package (the wrap and back cardboard), popped it out of that credit card mold, and dropped it in a plain white envelope and mailed it to me without a return address on a 37c stamp.
And when I tried to contact him and ask for explanation, no response. Gave him a neutral feedback and he retaliated with a negative. That bastard.
Ns1
No Lifer
- Jun 17, 2001
- 55,413
- 1,570
- 126
What?
Finalnight's tactic-
$20 BIN, $3 ship looks more enticing than $20 BIN $5 ship, encourages people to buy (that's his theory anyway).
When prompted with checkout, buyer is presented with $3 first class or $5 priority. Seller bumps all first class postage to priority anyway.
If anything, I view it as price discrimination. As long as he's profiting he doesn't care. It's not necessarily "screwing the customer", merely maximizing the amount they are willing to pay for shipping.
If it was me and I verified he spent $13 to ship it to me I'd leave positive feedback saying the guy messed up shipping but apologized. He made a mistake, he's admitting to it and responding to your e-mails. IMO, getting some money back for shipping would be pointless, after all this is about the principal and not the money isn't it?
alkemyst
No Lifer
- Feb 13, 2001
- 83,967
- 19
- 81
Halloween is over, but by this tactic some are paying for a 'freebie'.
In the business world that is pretty unethical to do.
Sort of like it's 2 for $1 or 1 for 50 cents, but if you buy just one they give you two anyway.
I believe that is illegal in many areas.
Ns1
No Lifer
- Jun 17, 2001
- 55,413
- 1,570
- 126
Disagree
I liken this to airlines
Priority mail customers are paying full fare guaranteed priority mail
First class customers are paying for first class mail, but receiving a complimentary upgrade. It's a nice bonus, but seller is under no obligation to upgrade and is merely doing so out of goodwill.
If the practice you outlined above were true, airlines wouldn't have complimentary upgrade fares
waffleironhead
Diamond Member
- Aug 10, 2005
- 6,919
- 429
- 136
How is this illegal? and please link to said law. in many places its illegal to make you buy 2 to get the sale price on the one item, but i have never seen what you post.
alkemyst
No Lifer
- Feb 13, 2001
- 83,967
- 19
- 81
What I posted was like what the one person above stated. They offer normal and higher priced shipping, but no matter if you pay for it or not you get the better shipping every time.
The laws on this are dependant on items and area and fall under pricing discrimination as well as pricing fraud.
It is not illegal everywhere just like sales on alcohol aren't or buy 1 get 1 free on it.
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