EAX HD worth it?

[renditionkid]

As only the Sb Audigy's and Audigy 2's support Creative's new EAX HD, I was wondering if its worth it to get one of these cards over a sound solution that supports EAX 1.0 and 2.0 only? Does it really make a difference in Jedi Knight 2?

 

[Slickone]

Good question that can always use different opinions bump.

I'm waiting for someone to make a soundcard that supports EAX 1,2, HD, and A3D 1, 2 (really support, w/out converting to Directsound calls). I may never own a soundcard.

 

[chizow]

Audigy 2 offers more than Advanced EAX HD over the original Audigy. You can read up on the specs at Creative. But to the original question, EAX Advanced HD differs from standard EAX b/c the Audigy 2 processor can process multiple environments at the same time. There's a good demo on the discs that can't be easily described, but they give a pretty good written description on their website.

Chiz

 

[holdencommodore]

Very few games use the EAX HD. Since Creative have chosen not to make EAX HD an open API like EAX 1, and 2, they are **trying** to corner the market. This means that Sensaura (used in a huge range of cards) and QSound based cards (used in Philips, ForteMedia etc..) miss out on it. With only the backing of Creative, I somehow doubt if many developers will impliment EAX HD into games.

Cheers

 

[chizow]

Originally posted by: holdencommodore
Very few games use the EAX HD. Since Creative have chosen not to make EAX HD an open API like EAX 1, and 2, they are **trying** to corner the market. This means that Sensaura (used in a huge range of cards) and QSound based cards (used in Philips, ForteMedia etc..) miss out on it. With only the backing of Creative, I somehow doubt if many developers will impliment EAX HD into games.

Cheers

Inaccuracies all over this post. EAX HD is still a relatively new API, so obviously support is not as widespread as other APIs. There still a solid line-up of games that currently support EAX HD. This list will only continue to grow as gamers will expect more from their games due to advances in technology (5/6/7.1 speaker setups with DD/DTS enabled speakers and competing products like X-Box with DD 5.1). The implementation will still depend on the development teams, but larger shops have already shown they intend to support EAX HD. I own 5 games that use EAX HD on that list (SoF2, WC3, NOLF2, NWN, and UT2k3) with Mafia 2 being thrown in with my Audigy 2, but I'm pretty sure other games that I have purchased recently also implement EAX HD (MW4:Mercs, BF1942, JKII). Although EAX HD support is not a consideration at all when I'm buying a game, the difference in gaming realism is much more tangible than other optimazations like graphics card settings.

Instead of criticizing Creative about the licensing of EAX HD, have you ever considered why they haven't made it an open API? Ever consider the other cards have hardware/software limitations that do not allow them to fully take advantage of EAX HD? EAX HD is a proprietary API that carries brand recognition synonymous with Creative; I don't think they want to spend their time trouble-shooting some other companies sound card b/c it doesn't work with their API (not to mention the negative public perception associated with it).

Chiz

 

[holdencommodore]

Ofcourse it's software limited. If Creative made the EAX HD on open API, then QSound and Sensaura could have the opportunity to rewrite their API's to support it. I really don't think it's a hardware limited problem, as both QSound Q3D 2.0 and Sensaura are very capable and efficient software API's. Audigy/ 2 is a good solution, but I won't be upgrading for EAX HD. I'm perfectly happy with my non- creative sound cards that I have... the TBSC, C-media 8738, Philips Acoustic Edge, Seismic Edge 5.1, Sonic Edge 5.1, Aztech PCI 368DSP.

Cheers

 

[Jeff7]

Originally posted by: holdencommodore
Ofcourse it's software limited. If Creative made the EAX HD on open API, then QSound and Sensaura could have the opportunity to rewrite their API's to support it. I really don't think it's a hardware limited problem, as both QSound Q3D 2.0 and Sensaura are very capable and efficient software API's. Audigy/ 2 is a good solution, but I won't be upgrading for EAX HD. I'm perfectly happy with my non- creative sound cards that I have... the TBSC, C-media 8738, Philips Acoustic Edge, Seismic Edge 5.1, Sonic Edge 5.1, Aztech PCI 368DSP.

Cheers

And if the hardware was just a bit too slow, it could serve as a push to develop even more powerful soundcards. Can't complain with that.

 

[BlueEyedBeezlebub]

To the original question, I think its worth it. I use a Audigy1 (available for $50 online) with my epox 8rda/1700+ and a gf3 and the system rocks.. in Unreal2k3 the sound is incredible!! For me, that games sound under EAX3 is worth it.

I am considering buying a Audigy2 because I like the A1 so much, the audigy 2 is a great deal to.. on newegg you can get it for around $108(!), thats with full versions of Hitman2 and SOF2. So you can get audigy 1 for $50 OEM or Audigy 2 for $50 more with 2 full version games.

I've never personally heard the audigy 2 but if its better than the audigy 1 it has to be fantastic. They used some different converters or something that attributes to the audigy 2s sound quality.. according to tomshardware.
And hey, you get firewire with the audigy if you dont have it!

Also, though the game list that supports EAX3 is well large enough to please me.. I don't believe WC3 is EAX3, it should just use EAX2 if I'm not mistaken?

edit-also some people are very hard on creative because of past experiences, I have the experience to tell you that you shouldnt even try a audigy with a VIA based board.. but I would also be one to tell you to not ever use a via based motherboard either.

 

[BoomAM]

chizow, without causeing and argument, wheres your proof on the audigy2 supporting better/enhansed EAX HD?
i far as im aware,
the audigy 2 has true 24bit/96khz operation, where as the audigy1 doesnt.
the audigy 2 supports 6.1 sound
the audigy 2 is THX certified
the audigy 1 can process 4 enviroments at once, as this was one of the main selling points and publisied parts of the Audigy1 & EAX HD

 

[chizow]

Originally posted by: BoomAM
chizow, without causeing and argument, wheres your proof on the audigy2 supporting better/enhansed EAX HD?
i far as im aware,
the audigy 2 has true 24bit/96khz operation, where as the audigy1 doesnt.
the audigy 2 supports 6.1 sound
the audigy 2 is THX certified
the audigy 1 can process 4 enviroments at once, as this was one of the main selling points and publisied parts of the Audigy1 & EAX HD

I never said the Audigy 1 didn't have full EAX HD support, I guess I thought the poster was comparing the Audigy 1 and 2. The Audigy 2 does do more with EAX HD b/c of the additional features of the Audigy 2, such as CMSS2 (3D), EAX HD in DD EX, EAX 2-channel upmixing, and a few other features. You can read more about it at Creative's site..

Chiz

 

[BoomAM]

oh, ok.
Dont take any offence chizow, I must have misunderstood what you were trying to say.

 

[chizow]

Originally posted by: BoomAM
oh, ok.
Dont take any offence chizow, I must have misunderstood what you were trying to say.

Heheh I didn't, after reading my post again, I confused myself even Yah I think it sounded that way b/c I thought the poster was trying to decide between the Audigy 1 and 2.

Chiz

 

[BlueEyedBeezlebub]

Interesting features but nothing notable IMO. As far as those being even more advanced EAX3 features, that isnt true, just additional features added to the audigy 2. EAX3 hasnt changed in its specifications with the Audigy 2. For the most part sounds like stuff that could be implemented by software for the Audigy1, and some people do use Audigy2 drivers for their audigy 1.. some of those might even work.

I think the most important part to the audigy2 is that for $100 you get full versions of hitman2 and SOF2 and you get the better sounding converters that come on the audigy2.. resulting in slightly better sound quality.

Heres the quotes from tomshardware's review where they specify these points.

Apart from the Audigy 2 DSP, Creative Labs has used some new chips to ensure the card really does support 24-bit/ 96 kHz playback, recording and DVD Audio. The key element in this support is the Cirrus Logic CS4382. This is an eight-channel DAC (Digital to Analog Converter), providing 6.1 and 24-bit/ 192 kHz support for playing DVD Audio. Here are the features of this classy chip:

Eight channels;
24-bit conversion;
4 to 192 kHz sampling rate;
Dynamic Range of 114 dB;
Total Harmonic Distortion -100 dB;
PCM and DSD format support;
Volume control in steps of 1 dB (transition without clicks);
Simultaneous support of two synchronous sampling rates.

and

Another component not found on the Audigy 1 is the Sigmatel STAC9721. This is an AC97 codec designed on the whole for internal inputs since it is limited to a maximum sampling rate of 48 kHz. We cannot say it enough: its converters and analog outputs are a model of their kind for most non-professional usage.

 

[mrman3k]

It isnt worth it. I dont see much of a difference since MP3s are not very good in quality to start out with

 

[Slickone]

I've asked this several times in the past w/out an answer, and wont go into as much detail, but while I'm here, basically can you hook up an Audigy 2 to a dolby digital A/V receiver and still have sound from the subwoofer all the time (not only during 5.1 sources)? How would you connect it?
And can you send sound also to PC speakers, to keep from having to always use the A/V receiver, without having to unplug/replug, and without having to fabricate your own connectors?

 

[Slickone]

^

 

[BoomAM]

im not quite sure what your getting at there, but asuming that you mean what i think you mean, then here go`s.

1) Yes you can connect the Audigy2 to an external dolby digital decoder.
2) If you have the 5.1 speakers connected to the decoder, the subwoofer will be used for all low frequency sounds, be it a 5.1 channel sound or mono.

"And can you send sound also to PC speakers, to keep from having to always use the A/V receiver, without having to unplug/replug, and without having to fabricate your own connectors?"
^
What do you mean?

 

[chizow]

Originally posted by: Slickone
I've asked this several times in the past w/out an answer, and wont go into as much detail, but while I'm here, basically can you hook up an Audigy 2 to a dolby digital A/V receiver and still have sound from the subwoofer all the time (not only during 5.1 sources)? How would you connect it?
And can you send sound also to PC speakers, to keep from having to always use the A/V receiver, without having to unplug/replug, and without having to fabricate your own connectors?

Slickone, pretty sure I answered this one for ya, run an advanced search with your name as the author and see if it doesn't turn up.

I can't type it all out again atm (in middle of something at work), but yes, you can hook up your A2 and get 5.1 w/ woofer all the time thru a receiver. You'll need 5.1 analog inputs in your receiver and 3 x 1/8'' stereo miniplug to RCA Y-adapters. 2 of the miniplugs will be for front and rear, the third will be for center channel and LFE (woofer). If you have 6.1 inputs, you can get a 3-pole adapter and get the rear-center channel. You can also hook it up via a digital coax cable (RCA) using a mono miniplug to RCA plug adapter and a digital coaxial RCA cable. I only recommend using this for movies if your receiver has a built-in DD decoder. Otherwise, your receiver will be doing the decoding/upmixing for analog sources (probably just Dolby Surround) and it won't be nearly as good as the Audigy 2 for analog sources (Dolby-EX).

Chiz

 

[Slickone]

Originally posted by: chizow
Slickone, pretty sure I answered this one for ya, run an advanced search with your name as the author and see if it doesn't turn up.

I can't type it all out again atm (in middle of something at work), but yes, you can hook up your A2 and get 5.1 w/ woofer all the time thru a receiver. You'll need 5.1 analog inputs in your receiver and 3 x 1/8'' stereo miniplug to RCA Y-adapters. 2 of the miniplugs will be for front and rear, the third will be for center channel and LFE (woofer). If you have 6.1 inputs, you can get a 3-pole adapter and get the rear-center channel. You can also hook it up via a digital coax cable (RCA) using a mono miniplug to RCA plug adapter and a digital coaxial RCA cable. I only recommend using this for movies if your receiver has a built-in DD decoder. Otherwise, your receiver will be doing the decoding/upmixing for analog sources (probably just Dolby Surround) and it won't be nearly as good as the Audigy 2 for analog sources (Dolby-EX).

I didn't find anything in the archives with an answer to this.
I thought when running a receiver in DD mode, it only sends the LFE signal to the sub, so if the source isn't DD, you'd have no LFE signal. ?

My receiver is a Pioneer VSX-D608. So I should use a digital coax cable? And if I did, and also ran the 1/8" analog outputs to my PC speakers, would it be able to send a signal to both analog and digital outputs (of course I wouldn't turn both on at the same time), or is there any way to switch between them?

Also, could I get away with not installing the Creative software, that I hear such bad things about?

 

[chizow]

Originally posted by: Slickone

I didn't find anything in the archives with an answer to this.
I thought when running a receiver in DD mode, it only sends the LFE signal to the sub, so if the source isn't DD, you'd have no LFE signal. ?

If you output thru the s/pdif it will only be in the format of the original source, analog or digital. It bypasses the Audigy 2's upmixing abilities and your receiver is then responsible for decoding/upmixing the source feed. So yes, if you output analog source thru the s/pdif coax, the LFE signal will not be discrete, it will be an upmix of all LFE on the analog source.

My receiver is a Pioneer VSX-D608. So I should use a digital coax cable? And if I did, and also ran the 1/8" analog outputs to my PC speakers, would it be able to send a signal to both analog and digital outputs (of course I wouldn't turn both on at the same time), or is there any way to switch between them?

Yes, you can run both. Again as mentioned above, digital output is really on beneficial when the source is digital and the receiver is doing the DD decoding (movies). Otherwise you'll want to use the 3 outputs from the Audigy 2 and input them to your receiver via 5.1 (everything else, analog stereo, games, DVD Audio, mp3's etc.) This way, you can upmix any stereo source to 5.1, and also benefit from the DD-EX upmixing/decoding and EAX HD provided by the A2. The latter two formats will be much better using the A2's decoding ability through the 5.1 inputs over the digital coax output (again, analog source decoded by your receiver in probably Pro Logic :Q). The good thing is, you can hook both up at the same time, however, you have to use the creative mixer to designate digital s/pdif output and in creative audioHQ to choose s/pdif passthrough. Hopefully Creative changes this in the future, since you won't be able to play both outputs at the same time if you are running them to a receiver (only 1 input selection).

Also, could I get away with not installing the Creative software, that I hear such bad things about?

As mentioned above, you can get away without installing most of the bloatware. All you really need are the drivers, audioHQ, surround mixer, speaker settings, and EAX control panel. I don't think its too bad, the surround mixer and speaker settings are more or less window .dll's in a different GUI, and the EAX control panel and audioHQ enable the features that make the Audigy 2 what it is.

Hope that helps,

Chiz