Eating plants for longer and healthier living?

[whm1974]

OK from this webpage and YouTube video there is research done showing some evidence that high animal protein(including fish) in the diet put folks at greater risk of cancer and other diseases then plant based foods do. The less meat and more plants in the diet increases increases lifespan and healthier living.
https://www.cancercenter.com/community/nutritional-support/all-about-protein/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpYwcTFVnv8&index=71&list=PL4FD135EA45DEEBB6

So should we consume a mostly vegetarian or even vegan diets?

 

[pete6032]

No.

 

[deadlyapp]

You're going to get some strong opinions here I suspect.

Yes, I'd say a full plant diet is probably better for you in terms of various cancer markers, heart health, etc. Period. However unless you strictly stick to organic produce you'll probably introduce some other factor like increased pesticides etc.

In my opinion, something is going to kill me eventually. I'll do some things to try to reduce that risk, eg exercise, eating well, etc but I'm not going to completely change my diet and my quality of life / mental health to do something like go vegetarian/vegan.

 

[PeterScott]

OK from this webpage and YouTube video there is research done showing some evidence that high animal protein(including fish) in the diet put folks at greater risk of cancer and other diseases then plant based foods do. The less meat and more plants in the diet increases increases lifespan and healthier living.
https://www.cancercenter.com/community/nutritional-support/all-about-protein/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpYwcTFVnv8&index=71&list=PL4FD135EA45DEEBB6

So should we consume a mostly vegetarian or even vegan diets?

For health, Yes. I don't think there is much contrary evidence.

But most people don't eat for health. They eat out of habit/convenience/price/taste.

 

[whm1974]

For health, Yes. I don't think there is much contrary evidence.

But most people don't eat for health. They eat out of habit/convenience/price/taste.

True, I know what you mean. I suppose I could do it with potatoes with a little bit of butter or a brown rice, barley, and legume pottage, but that as far I can make myself do it.

 

[whm1974]

So those of you that are vegetarians and vegans, how did it take you to switch over to a mostly or completely plant based diet?

 

[PeterScott]

So those of you that are vegetarians and vegans, how did it take you to switch over to a mostly or completely plant based diet?

I started transitioning to mostly Vegan around Nov 2017. Changeover was pretty quick, except I still eat oily fish 2/week(5 days/week is pure veggie.). I didn't try to wean myself off animal products. Once I made the decision, I just stopped buying animal products (except fish), and was quite quickly eating mainly plant options.

Oily Fish has an excellent load of nutrients. It's rich in minerals, Vitamin D, B12, and of Long Chain Omega 3. Fish has just about everything that is low in pure unfortified plant foods.

Unfortunately seafood also tends to the most contaminated with Dioxin/PCB related chemicals. These have incredibly long half life.

So I might ditch the fish as well over the next few months, I am still thinking about this part.

 

[whm1974]

I started transitioning to mostly Vegan around Nov 2017. Changeover was pretty quick, except I still eat oily fish 2/week(5 days/week is pure veggie.). I didn't try to wean myself off animal products. Once I made the decision, I just stopped buying animal products (except fish), and was quite quickly eating mainly plant options.

Oily Fish has an excellent load of nutrients. It's rich in minerals, Vitamin D, B12, and of Long Chain Omega 3. Fish has just about everything that is low in pure unfortified plant foods.

Unfortunately seafood also tends to the most contaminated with Dioxin/PCB related chemicals. These have incredibly long half life.

So I might ditch the fish as well over the next few months, I am still thinking about this part.

Well the problem for is that I don't care for seafood, but I will eat tuna and catfish every so often. I am thinking of to start consuming maybe one or two cans a week of tuna.

 

[deadlyapp]

Well the problem for is that I don't care for seafood, but I will eat tuna and catfish every so often. I am thinking of to start consuming maybe one or two cans a week of tuna.

Canned tuna is one of the highest sources of mercury and isn't advisable to eat more than a serving or two a week. Now, unless you're eating like 5 cans of tuna a week, you're probably OK. Since I generally get a vibe from you that you are very low income and trying to eat well, you may not care that much about the mercury side.

Vegetables as a whole are also quite expensive, but you can always grow them yourself if you live in an area with decent sunlight (or if you get a grow light and grow indoors).

 

[PeterScott]

Canned tuna is one of the highest sources of mercury and isn't advisable to eat more than a serving or two a week. Now, unless you're eating like 5 cans of tuna a week, you're probably OK. Since I generally get a vibe from you that you are very low income and trying to eat well, you may not care that much about the mercury side.

Vegetables as a whole are also quite expensive, but you can always grow them yourself if you live in an area with decent sunlight (or if you get a grow light and grow indoors).

Maybe if you plan to eat only specific expensive vegetables and ignore staples.

But I don't find vegetarian eating to be expensive at all. I am pretty sure my food bill has gone down since I went mostly Vegan.

Staples like Oats/Potatoes/rice/dry beans are quite inexpensive. I also get some no name mixed frozen veggies by the Kilogram bag that are quite frugal. There may be some specific expensive fruit/veggies, but they are now easier to afford that I no longer spend money on expensive animal products like meat and cheese.

I don't know about other people, but I need a staple/starch based diet, or I wouldn't get enough calories from from just eating veggies. So I have an inexpensive Staple Starch at every meal (Oats/Potatoes/Rice/Pasta). That is an inexpensive base for a meal, add some inexpensive frozen veggies, some home cooked dry beans, and you are still being very frugal. A couple more specialty items like frozen Berries or Kale might be a bit more, but still cheaper than buying Meat IMO.

 

[mike8675309]

As a vegan I will say the following. (And I started a vegan diet for the health benefits (i.e. reduced risk (small that it may be) to the top killers and disables of Americans)
The #1 thing you can do to reduce your risk for death and early disability is to stop eating processed foods. Any of them, vegan or not.
The #2 thing you can do to reduce your risk for death and early disability is to DRAMATICALLY increase your dietary intake of a wide variety of whole plant foods. Leafy greens and berries are the most important.
The #3 thing you can do is to cut out dairy as much as possible. Diary is the #1 source of saturated fat within the american diet. Saturated fat is directly responsible for the build up of plaques in our artery's that lead to heart attacks.
The #4 thing you can do is cut out eggs from your diet. Eggs are full of cholesterol and saturated fat. Not good.
The #5 thing you can do is cut out all animal products and eat a plant based diet made of a wide variety of whole foods.
The #6 thing you can do is go vegan. no more animal fur or animal skins in your life. No more items tested on animals.

Of course I advocate for #6, but if you do #1 you help yourself a whole heck of a lot. Do #2 and you are adding days to how long you go before you have a heart attack or become disabled. It only gets better from there.

 

[mdram]

or switch to wild game, its leaner and more protein

 

[deadlyapp]

Maybe if you plan to eat only specific expensive vegetables and ignore staples.

But I don't find vegetarian eating to be expensive at all. I am pretty sure my food bill has gone down since I went mostly Vegan.

Staples like Oats/Potatoes/rice/dry beans are quite inexpensive. I also get some no name mixed frozen veggies by the Kilogram bag that are quite frugal. There may be some specific expensive fruit/veggies, but they are now easier to afford that I no longer spend money on expensive animal products like meat and cheese.

I don't know about other people, but I need a staple/starch based diet, or I wouldn't get enough calories from from just eating veggies. So I have an inexpensive Staple Starch at every meal (Oats/Potatoes/Rice/Pasta). That is an inexpensive base for a meal, add some inexpensive frozen veggies, some home cooked dry beans, and you are still being very frugal. A couple more specialty items like frozen Berries or Kale might be a bit more, but still cheaper than buying Meat IMO.

Ah yes, true if you figure in a higher content of carbohydrates you would see probably a net reduction in price. If you go from a very low volume of plants though to a high volume of plants (especially if you buy only fresh) you'd see a net increase I'd suspect, even by removing meat based protein sources.

All this talk has me very tempted to attempt vegetarianism for 8 weeks or so to see what would happen to my lean muscle mass. Maybe sometime this year I'll try it.

 

[whm1974]

Maybe if you plan to eat only specific expensive vegetables and ignore staples.

But I don't find vegetarian eating to be expensive at all. I am pretty sure my food bill has gone down since I went mostly Vegan.

Staples like Oats/Potatoes/rice/dry beans are quite inexpensive. I also get some no name mixed frozen veggies by the Kilogram bag that are quite frugal. There may be some specific expensive fruit/veggies, but they are now easier to afford that I no longer spend money on expensive animal products like meat and cheese.

I don't know about other people, but I need a staple/starch based diet, or I wouldn't get enough calories from from just eating veggies. So I have an inexpensive Staple Starch at every meal (Oats/Potatoes/Rice/Pasta). That is an inexpensive base for a meal, add some inexpensive frozen veggies, some home cooked dry beans, and you are still being very frugal. A couple more specialty items like frozen Berries or Kale might be a bit more, but still cheaper than buying Meat IMO.

I'm starting to do this now with rice, lentils, split peas, and potatoes.

 

[whm1974]

Canned tuna is one of the highest sources of mercury and isn't advisable to eat more than a serving or two a week. Now, unless you're eating like 5 cans of tuna a week, you're probably OK. Since I generally get a vibe from you that you are very low income and trying to eat well, you may not care that much about the mercury side.

Actually I do care about the mercury side, which is why I would be limiting my consumption of tuna to only one to two cans per week.

 

[balloonshark]

I also started slowly transitioning in November. I started with my breakfast by eating overnight oats with berries, whole wheat toast with natural peanut butter and a piece of fruit. My bathroom trips have been a breeze since that change. I slowly started emptying my pantry and fridge of normal food. As of the new year I'm 100% plant powered to the best of my knowledge.

Supposedly a whole food plant based diet is the only diet proven to reverse heart disease. I've even seen vids of folks with type 2 diabetes that have quit taking insulin. Both diseases as well as cancer runs in my family so now you know part of what motivates me.

 

[whm1974]

I was wondering if I could use olive oil on baked potatoes instead of butter?

 

[balloonshark]

Don't you have type 2 diabetes? I was going to suggest avocado and this article about potatoes and diabetes seems to back it up. http://healthhubs.net/diabetes/should-diabetics-eat-potatoes/

I think ideally we should avoid the use of salt, oils and sugars. One of the things I miss is butter in my dishes. Slowly but surely I'm getting creative with spices to avoid all the bad stuff. For fats I've been using walnuts and avocado and I've found that a tiny bit added per bite of food makes a huge difference in the taste of the bite. Fat is amazing and if I need it to help absorb nutrients then I prefer to eat healthy fats.

 

[whm1974]

Don't you have type 2 diabetes? I was going to suggest avocado and this article about potatoes and diabetes seems to back it up. http://healthhubs.net/diabetes/should-diabetics-eat-potatoes/

I think ideally we should avoid the use of salt, oils and sugars. One of the things I miss is butter in my dishes. Slowly but surely I'm getting creative with spices to avoid all the bad stuff. For fats I've been using walnuts and avocado and I've found that a tiny bit added per bite of food makes a huge difference in the taste of the bite. Fat is amazing and if I need it to help absorb nutrients then I prefer to eat healthy fats.

Yes I have type 2 diabetes, but baked or microwaved potatoes with a little bit of fat is fine. I've been using a small of butter on my potatoes with some salt and black pepper. And I made some brown rice, barley, and lentil pottage with some butter.

I'm avoiding refined carbs and processed foods.

 

[whm1974]

I discovered the Healthy Eating Plate developed by Harvard Medical School that is supposed to a great improvement over the USDA Food Pyramid here:
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/healthy-eating-plate/

 

[PeterScott]

Aim for smaller amounts. Think of any oil, like the processed food it is. Eating just about any kind of extracted oil seems to have two detrimental effects.

Short term impaired Endothelial function: Your arteries clamp down worsening blood flow:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17174226

Longer term, more oil, equals more progression in cardio vascular disease:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2407875

IMO there are no "Healthy" extracted oils. Being shot with a BB gun (Olive Oil) is better than being shot with a .357 Magnum (Lard), but that doesn't make getting shot with a BB gun healthy.

Note that I am not against, nuts, seeds or Avocados (I had all three yesterday). It's just that extracted oils seem to be a lot like a processed food with mainly detrimental effect on the body, while a lot of oily plants seem to be very healthy with no detrimental effects.

If people think processed carbs are bad, why don't they think processed oil is bad?

 

[whm1974]

Aim for smaller amounts. Think of any oil, like the processed food it is. Eating just about any kind of extracted oil seems to have two detrimental effects.

Short term impaired Endothelial function: Your arteries clamp down worsening blood flow:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17174226

Longer term, more oil, equals more progression in cardio vascular disease:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2407875

IMO there are no "Healthy" extracted oils. Being shot with a BB gun (Olive Oil) is better than being shot with a .357 Magnum (Lard), but that doesn't make getting shot with a BB gun healthy.

Note that I am not against, nuts, seeds or Avocados (I had all three yesterday). It's just that extracted oils seem to be a lot like a processed food with mainly detrimental effect on the body, while a lot of oily plants seem to be very healthy with no detrimental effects.

If people think processed carbs are bad, why don't they think processed oil is bad?

AFAIK Oils are most healthy if cold pressed with no chemicals used vs oils that have to made by modern industrial processes. Olive Oil, sesame, and palm oils vs cottonseed and corn oils for example

 

[PeterScott]

AFAIK Oils are most healthy if cold pressed with no chemicals used vs oils that have to made by modern industrial processes. Olive Oil, sesame, and palm oils vs cottonseed and corn oils for example

It makes little difference to your arteries, even cold pressed flax oil causes them to clamp down.

 

[whm1974]

It makes little difference to your arteries, even cold pressed flax oil causes them to clamp down.

So we still need to watch our fats/oils consumption then? And only use a small amount at that?

 

[PeterScott]

I don't sweat my macros. I am not on a diet, I am evolving my lifestyle.

Part of that evolution is moving away from processed food. Extracted oils are processed food. I seen no benefit from adding this processed food.

So, I am replacing extracted oils with Seeds/Nuts/Avocados, as these do seem to have added benefit.

My everyday breakfast now has >30 grams of fat, almost 40% of calories from fat. More today as I went for an 8km jog and added a banana with natural Peanut butter on top of the flax and almonds, I have every morning.