Easy way to get on the FBI's sh!tlist

[Miramonti]

Just show up.

FBI Collecting Data on Anti-War Groups

"The extent of the scrutiny is that any time there is a large gathering of people ... there is a potential for an act of terrorism," [FBI spokesman] Carter said.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: jjsole
Just show up.

FBI officials told the newspaper that the intelligence gathering effort was aimed at identifying anarchists and "extremist elements" plotting violence, not at monitoring the political speech of law-abiding protesters.

Asked to comment on the paper's account, an FBI spokesman emphasized that the agency's interest was in potential criminal, and possibly terrorist, activity.

"The FBI is not interested in individuals who are exercising their constitutional rights of protest," FBI spokesman Bill Carter said. "It's only the groups who would be involved in violent or criminal activity where there would be an interest."

CkG

 

[Zebo]

The governement also spies on right wing groups plenty. Pretty sad state of affiars IMO..the government spying at all on it's own citizens..I like the more wait and prosecute for actual violations route than growing the governemnt, keeping files on lots of americans, and active inflitration and perhaps even instigation to entrap for a "succesful" record. Oh well. It's all written down in 1984.

 

[Miramonti]

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

FBI officials told the newspaper that the intelligence gathering effort was aimed at identifying anarchists and "extremist elements" plotting violence, not at monitoring the political speech of law-abiding protesters.

CkG

It is against our constitutional rights to profile the haystack in order to find a needle which there is no evidence that even exists in the first place.

 

[Witling]

The part of the article I like says:

"The memorandum, which was circulated to local law enforcement officials on Oct. 15 ahead of antiwar demonstrations in Washington and San Francisco, detailed how protesters have sometimes used "training camps" to rehearse, the Internet to raise funds and gas masks to defend against police use of tear gas, the newspaper reported." [Emphasis added.]

Bringing gas masks is bad enough, but can you imagine these guys having the nerve to use the Internet to raise funds?

OK, we have to check these antiwar guys out for possible terrorist activity. Yeah, I'm a terrorist. That's all I want to do is blow up 50 or so people who are pissed at the government. And, I want to have about 1000 cops on the lookout for trouble when I do it.

And, finally, I'm glad that someone brought up the fact that the FBI watches the right too. The government is very suspicious of anyone who doesn't toe the government line.

 

[Lucky]

Originally posted by: jjsole

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

FBI officials told the newspaper that the intelligence gathering effort was aimed at identifying anarchists and "extremist elements" plotting violence, not at monitoring the political speech of law-abiding protesters.

CkG

It is against our constitutional rights to profile the haystack in order to find a needle which there is no evidence that even exists in the first place.

Uh, what? Have you ever been to any of these "anti-war" protests? I've covered...must be dozens now as part of my job and I can confidently say that in nearly every one not only have their been admitted anarchists but that they, along with the free trade, environmental, and anti-walmart nutbjobs outnumber the number of folks actually protesting the war. These anarchists, if they don't carry signs opening extolling the virtues of overthrowing the government or killing bush, wear bandanas, gas masks, ski masks, and hoods so they commit violent acts without being identified. When you have groups of people planning ahead of time how to most effectively enter violent combat with police, or gain access to restricted areas illegally, something needs to be done. It appears they are doing just that.

 

[Miramonti]

Originally posted by: Lucky
These anarchists, if they don't carry signs opening extolling the virtues of overthrowing the government or killing bush, wear bandanas, gas masks, ski masks, and hoods so they commit violent acts without being identified. When you have groups of people planning ahead of time how to most effectively enter violent combat with police, or gain access to restricted areas illegally, something needs to be done. It appears they are doing just that.

There have been hundreds or thousands of anarchist groups in this country before 9/11 and as far as I know, not only are they legal, none of them have been accused of terrorism or of attempting to overthrow the governement or of attempting to take a presidents life.

 

[Witling]

Lucky, having been in on some of the planning of the San Francisco demonstrations I found a grain of truth in what you said. Just a grain and it got lost again on the beach. I can speak only of the demonstrations in San Francisco where I was a crowd monitor. I never saw one sign that advocated killing Bush or anyone else. If you consider signs like "Regime Change Begins at Home." as advocating the overthrow of the government, you're right. The vast, overwhelming majority of the people and the speakers were there to demonstrate against the war. Many of the groups, however, do grind their own ax at these demonstrations. The anarchists were always careful to separate themselves from the main demonstration in both time and distance. Six blocks away and one hour later. The news services lump all this together. To give you an example of how bad the news services are, one of our local stations reported that the "Police were pushing the crowds up Market Street." If staying behind 50 yards and moving up when the crowd moved up is "pushing," then they were "pushing." To everyone else, it looked like routine monitoring.

Heavens to Mergatroid! Lucky, your profile says you're from Alabama. We had about 50,000 to 100,000 at our demonstrations, depending on who you believe. How was it in Alabama where you got your experience.

 

[ReiAyanami]

terrorists accept paypal

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Lucky

Originally posted by: jjsole

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

FBI officials told the newspaper that the intelligence gathering effort was aimed at identifying anarchists and "extremist elements" plotting violence, not at monitoring the political speech of law-abiding protesters.

CkG

It is against our constitutional rights to profile the haystack in order to find a needle which there is no evidence that even exists in the first place.

Uh, what? Have you ever been to any of these "anti-war" protests? I've covered...must be dozens now as part of my job and I can confidently say that in nearly every one not only have their been admitted anarchists but that they, along with the free trade, environmental, and anti-walmart nutbjobs outnumber the number of folks actually protesting the war. These anarchists, if they don't carry signs opening extolling the virtues of overthrowing the government or killing bush, wear bandanas, gas masks, ski masks, and hoods so they commit violent acts without being identified. When you have groups of people planning ahead of time how to most effectively enter violent combat with police, or gain access to restricted areas illegally, something needs to be done. It appears they are doing just that.

Sure I believe ya got picts and/or incident reports and threating the life of the POTUS is federal crime and it's your duty to notify the SS?

I would suggest many wear masks because they might be fired form or ribbed at jobs if idenified, could hurt thier business, or just don't want to be indentifed for taking an ungovermental stance period.

And I've never been but the pictures I've seen most all look quite normal folks.

 

[XMan]

The anti-war organization group ANSWER has long gotten some funding from the Communist Party. Frankly I'd be surprised if the FBI wasn't seeing if there was any possibility of a threat.

 

[Lucky]

Originally posted by: Whitling
Lucky, having been in on some of the planning of the San Francisco demonstrations I found a grain of truth in what you said. Just a grain and it got lost again on the beach. I can speak only of the demonstrations in San Francisco where I was a crowd monitor. I never saw one sign that advocated killing Bush or anyone else. If you consider signs like "Regime Change Begins at Home." as advocating the overthrow of the government, you're right. The vast, overwhelming majority of the people and the speakers were there to demonstrate against the war. Many of the groups, however, do grind their own ax at these demonstrations. The anarchists were always careful to separate themselves from the main demonstration in both time and distance. Six blocks away and one hour later. The news services lump all this together. To give you an example of how bad the news services are, one of our local stations reported that the "Police were pushing the crowds up Market Street." If staying behind 50 yards and moving up when the crowd moved up is "pushing," then they were "pushing." To everyone else, it looked like routine monitoring.

Heavens to Mergatroid! Lucky, your profile says you're from Alabama. We had about 50,000 to 100,000 at our demonstrations, depending on who you believe. How was it in Alabama where you got your experience.

I'm glad you are able to acknowledge that these demonstrations do have tag-alongs. FWIW, I don't live in alabama, just never changed my profile from the default. I live not too far from Chicago, but as a newspaper photographer I've covered demonstrations in Chicago, Indiana, Michigan, and Ohio.

 

[nutxo]

Originally posted by: ReiAyanami
terrorists accept paypal

non CC funds only please, and no e-checks

 

[DaiShan]

Originally posted by: Lucky

Originally posted by: jjsole

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

FBI officials told the newspaper that the intelligence gathering effort was aimed at identifying anarchists and "extremist elements" plotting violence, not at monitoring the political speech of law-abiding protesters.

CkG

It is against our constitutional rights to profile the haystack in order to find a needle which there is no evidence that even exists in the first place.

Uh, what? Have you ever been to any of these "anti-war" protests? I've covered...must be dozens now as part of my job and I can confidently say that in nearly every one not only have their been admitted anarchists but that they, along with the free trade, environmental, and anti-walmart nutbjobs outnumber the number of folks actually protesting the war. These anarchists, if they don't carry signs opening extolling the virtues of overthrowing the government or killing bush, wear bandanas, gas masks, ski masks, and hoods so they commit violent acts without being identified. When you have groups of people planning ahead of time how to most effectively enter violent combat with police, or gain access to restricted areas illegally, something needs to be done. It appears they are doing just that.

While I do not personally believe anarchy is a viable solution due to my thoughts on the nature of man, I concede that it is a valid school of political thought, and as such I agree with Voltaire when he says "I may not agree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

 

[Lucky]

Uh, OK. If you want to defend to your death the rights of a group of idiots to committ illegal actions then go right ahead.

 

[beyoku]

Originally posted by: Lucky

Originally posted by: jjsole

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

FBI officials told the newspaper that the intelligence gathering effort was aimed at identifying anarchists and "extremist elements" plotting violence, not at monitoring the political speech of law-abiding protesters.

CkG

It is against our constitutional rights to profile the haystack in order to find a needle which there is no evidence that even exists in the first place.

Uh, what? Have you ever been to any of these "anti-war" protests? I've covered...must be dozens now as part of my job and I can confidently say that in nearly every one not only have their been admitted anarchists but that they, along with the free trade, environmental, and anti-walmart nutbjobs outnumber the number of folks actually protesting the war. These anarchists, if they don't carry signs opening extolling the virtues of overthrowing the government or killing bush, wear bandanas, gas masks, ski masks, and hoods so they commit violent acts without being identified. When you have groups of people planning ahead of time how to most effectively enter violent combat with police, or gain access to restricted areas illegally, something needs to be done. It appears they are doing just that.

Those people ARE the fbi and cia - Placed in to disrupt peacful demonstrators. That is why they wear masks. I was at a march last spring.......We (a group of protesters) captured one of the people wearing a mask trying to get people to get violent. About 12 of us took him to a corner and started to interrogate, i guess he felt as if we would beat the mess out of him and he pulled his FBI ID...Cointel Pro. This has been going on for a while.

 

[Lucky]

Those people ARE the fbi and cia - Placed in to disrupt peacful demonstrators. That is why they wear masks. I was at a march last spring.......We (a group of protesters) captured one of the people wearing a mask trying to get people to get violent. About 12 of us took him to a corner and started to interrogate, i guess he felt as if we would beat the mess out of him and he pulled his FBI ID...Cointel Pro. This has been going on for a while.

Riiiiight. Maybe you know who really killed JFK too, huh? It's all one big conspiracy, I tell ya.

 

[308nato]

Those people ARE the fbi and cia - Placed in to disrupt peacful demonstrators. That is why they wear masks. I was at a march last spring.......We (a group of protesters) captured one of the people wearing a mask trying to get people to get violent. About 12 of us took him to a corner and started to interrogate, i guess he felt as if we would beat the mess out of him and he pulled his FBI ID...Cointel Pro. This has been going on for a while.

heh.......just heh............

 

[Zebo]

Another great take from a real conservative:

FBI EYE ON THE ANTIWAR GUY
Our old republic gets a 'makeover' in wartime
by Justin Raimondo




Washington is just full of "confidential" memoranda that, somehow, get published in the newspapers; they waft down the boulevards of the Imperial City like snowflakes in a storm, until the city is knee-deep in them.

There was Rummy's supposedly super-secret missive expressing something less than breezy optimism about the war he and his neocon buddies insisted on starting.

There was the memo from Defense Department official Douglas Feith, in which the neocons "leaked" to the Weekly Standard yet more of their completely bogus "intelligence" as "proof" that Saddam and Osama were in cahoots all along. The Defense Department denied it, although we doubt that author Stephen Hayes and Weekly Standard editor Bill Kristol will be hauled into court a la Dan Ellsberg and the New York Times.

Now we have an internal FBI memo, in which the Bureau admits to an ongoing effort to spy on the antiwar movement. Quelle surprise! I'm shocked, shocked ? not!

You'll note that all of these "leaks" somehow benefited the authors of these memoranda: Rumsfield got to distance himself from the unfolding disaster of Iraq-nam. Feith got to recycle warmed over disinformation from the Office of Special Plans, which had such a large supply of lies left over when the war "ended": the Weekly Standard must've gotten them at fire sale prices.

And the War Party certainly benefits from the news that the feds are keeping a close eye on the antiwar movement ? after all, who wants their name to be on a government list of possible "extremist elements," as the memo puts it, who might be "planning violence"?

Oh, man, you wouldn't believe what those antiwar "extremists" are up to! According to our intrepid G-men:

"Protesters have sometimes used 'training camps' to rehearse for demonstrations, the Internet to raise money and gas masks to defend against tear gas. The memorandum analyzed lawful activities like recruiting demonstrators, as well as illegal activities like using fake documentation to get into a secured site."

Yikes! Not training camps?! Visions of wild-eyed anarchists learning how to make Molotov cocktails dance in the head, but the reality is much more prosaic: it's just a bunch of hippies playing touchy-feely games with each other, and training in techniques designed to minimize violence. So don't get too scared. And this business of getting into "secured facilities" is supposed to mean, what? Trying to get into the American Enterprise Institute auditorium, no doubt.

And what about this business of using the Internet to raise money? I mean, how subversive can you get? Of course, the way the government raises money is to put a gun to your head and say: pay up ? or else! We, on the other hand, have to persuade people to donate. That the lords of Washington can't comprehend the concept of voluntary contributions is profoundly weird, yet all too believable.

This business of "recruiting demonstrators" may seem innocuous, even harmless, but the question is: recruited for what? Under the grossly misnamed "Patriot" Act, any demonstration where a fight breaks out can be classified as a "terrorist activity" ? and all the participants and organizers rounded up as "enemy combatants." The legal groundwork for wholesale repression has certainly been laid.

While this may seem unlikely in the present context, if only because of the outcry that would ensue, keep in mind the latest pronouncement of General Tommy Franks, until recently the commander of U.S. forces in Iraq, who predicted that a military dictatorship would be the inevitable result of another terrorist attack on U.S. soil:

"It means the potential of a weapon of mass destruction and a terrorist, massive, casualty-producing event somewhere in the Western world ? it may be in the United States of America ? that causes our population to question our own Constitution and to begin to militarize our country in order to avoid a repeat of another mass, casualty-producing event. Which in fact, then begins to unravel the fabric of our Constitution. Two steps, very, very important."

As the country turns against the war, and the protest movement gains momentum, what else could stop a colossal defeat of the neoconservative War Party but General Franks' chilling scenario?

The whole point of the neocon project is the overthrow of our Old Republic, and the creation of a New Rome: another 9/11 would certainly provide them with a pretext to take action to accomplish their goal. Their loyalty is to the Empire, an entity that has yet to be fully born, and if the birth of an American Imperium has to be helped along by a catastrophe of historic proportions ? perhaps one that dwarfs 9/11 in its horrific severity ? well, then, so be it. So what if they have to destroy part of the country in order to "save" the whole nation from what they regard as a huge defeat. Utilitarianism has its uses.

Our lives are overshadowed by the mystery of the first 9/11, even as the threat of another looms on the horizon. While the government refuses to hand over vital information about that seminal event to their own official Commission, they hold the prospect of another even worse disaster over our heads, a Sword of Damocles aimed straight at the heart of our "democracy." General Franks' worries are based on the latest intelligence, which, according to Newsweek, consists of a lot of "chatter" indicating another 9/11 is imminent:

"'You have rapid-fire, back-to-back significant Al Qaeda attacks,' one counter-terrorism official tells Newsweek in the December 1 issue [on newsstands Monday, November 24]. 'It's starting to look like this could be the buildup to a grand finale on U.S. soil.'"

But we may not even have to wait for a dramatic "grand finale" of the American Republic, ending in a terrorist conflagration on American soil, before the clampdown begins. Liberal democracy in wartime is demonstrably less liberal with each passing day. John Ashcroft and his neoconservative minions are setting up a police state apparatus that threatens to surpass ? in power and evil intent ? that of the Commies, with its comprehensive network of spies.

Oh, but we're not spying, we're just "gathering intelligence," the Thought Police protest. Yeah, so was the Stasi, and their teachers, the KGB. If a Democrat administration tried to pull this sh*t, conservatives would be ? literally ? up in arms.

Thank the gods that some on the Right, like Bob Barr, Phyllis Schlafly, Grover Norquist, David Keene, Donald Devine, and the heroic Howard Phillips, still display the old fighting spirit of their intellectual forefathers, and are fiercely resisting this outrageous usurpation.

But the usurpers, unfortunately, have a trump card, and that is fear. Fear that they, the government, might fail in their sworn duty to protect and defend us ? it's happened before, after all. General Franks is right. For all my pessimism, much of which might be attributed to a certain moodiness of temperament, I never thought I'd be writing these words, but a dictatorship in this country is a very real and growing possibility.

The "democracy" that we're so presumptuous as to want to export to the rest of the world may be about to undergo a radical makeover. Unlike those pulled off by the Fab Five, however, this is one transformation that is not going to be an improvement.

? Justin Raimondo

Text

 

[rjain]

The horror. THERE ARE PINKOS TALKING! WE HAVE TO ARREST THEM FOR THEIR POLITICAL OPINIONS! In that case, we should arrest people for wanting socialized healthcare, as that's one major step on the way to communism! Mrs. Clinton, you have the right to remain silent.

 

[DealMonkey]

Didn't this country go through similar crap in the 60s during Vietnam? Or the 50s during the "red scare?" Only now, we see "terrorists" everywhere (instead of commies) and the potential for terrorism could pop up at any time, anywhere. I'm surprised the gov't isn't leveling the mighty power of the Patriot Act at these protestors and their groups.

 

[miguel]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Didn't this country go through similar crap in the 60s during Vietnam? Or the 50s during the "red scare?" Only now, we see "terrorists" everywhere (instead of commies) and the potential for terrorism could pop up at any time, anywhere. I'm surprised the gov't isn't leveling the mighty power of the Patriot Act at these protestors and their groups.

Are you really surprised? I have yet to hear one story about how a law-abiding citizen got their rights taken away by the Evil Patriot Act.

 

[rjain]

miguel: do you expect the FBI or CIA to just tell you?