Early Warning Signs of Fascism: A point by point discussion.

[agent00f]

Excuse me, but I'm not a revolutionary Leftist. I'm not "on that side" no matter how desperately you need to put me there to maintain belief.

Which doesn't change the fact that Trumpsters are deeply delusional, rendered that way by decades of relentless right wing agitprop. It's an intentionally misdirected exercise in spite & resentment. They're victims of top down class warfare as are we all to varying degrees.

The Rust belt is rusty because the Job Creators made it that way. But Trumpsters look to them to bring back the jobs they took away, as if that'll happen. They seem to think that kicking out all the illegals in California will somehow aid in that effort. They think crime is on the rise when that's simply not true. They believe in a huge complex of lies as part of their cultural heritage.

It's quite remarkable how Conservatives see Trump as somebody he's never been & is incapable of being. He connects with their pride, aspirations, fears & prejudices in ways that only a great con artiste can...

He could have used Sympathy for the Devil as his theme song because they'd never figure it out, anyway.

Doesn't seem they're deluded much about the social status they expect out of the deal, and it doesn't appear they're bothered by what the Trump types get from their end of the exchange.

The problem here is many liberals assume modern ethical standards of people for whom that has no purchase.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Fascism is so mid-20th century. Why resort to horse and buggy techniques of manipulation and control? Keep the current system for appearances and shape opinion with increasingly sophisticated behavior control. We're likely near or at an effective level of Total Informational Awareness in terms of data collection. All that remains is the problem of Big Data manipulation to influence people in a more tailored way and ever refining the system. Most people are easily manipulated but even the more sophisticated will be influenced by the massaging of inputs. The news now is suspect, and how that is filtered for delivery is a natural target of control. No overt totalitarianism needed, just some patience.

 

[desura]

I should also add that authoritarianism is about protecting something that is precious and holy. So segregationist authoritarians in the South thought that they were protecting the virtue of white women, and if you look at it from that angle, their actions flow from there.

Contemporary Left-authoritarians think that they're protecting LGBT people, who are kind of the new priests of that movement. They also like to imagine themselves standing up for historically disadvantaged minorities.

 

[agent00f]

I should also add that authoritarianism is about protecting something that is precious and holy. So segregationist authoritarians in the South thought that they were protecting the virtue of white women, and if you look at it from that angle, their actions flow from there.

Contemporary Left-authoritarians think that they're protecting LGBT people, who are kind of the new priests of that movement. They also like to imagine themselves standing up for historically disadvantaged minorities.

"Everyone else is just as degenerate as us" --degens

 

[Jhhnn]

Doesn't seem they're deluded much about the social status they expect out of the deal, and it doesn't appear they're bothered by what the Trump types get from their end of the exchange.

The problem here is many liberals assume modern ethical standards of people for whom that has no purchase.

Whatever social status they achieve is only in their own minds. The power elite doesn't care about their skin color. Black, brown, white or pink with purple polka dots we're all just on this earth for them to exploit. Their view of us is so abstract that we're merely a commodity.

 

[agent00f]

Whatever social status they achieve is only in their own minds. The power elite doesn't care about their skin color. Black, brown, white or pink with purple polka dots we're all just on this earth for them to exploit. Their view of us is so abstract that we're merely a commodity.

Odd then that CEO's largely look alike; their promise is to keep it that way.

 

[mikeymikec]

I should also add that authoritarianism is about protecting something that is precious and holy. So segregationist authoritarians in the South thought that they were protecting the virtue of white women, and if you look at it from that angle, their actions flow from there.

Contemporary Left-authoritarians think that they're protecting LGBT people, who are kind of the new priests of that movement. They also like to imagine themselves standing up for historically disadvantaged minorities.

But they're actually...? Come on, you're making a comparison between these two groups here, follow through with it.

Out of curiosity, do you think that the freedoms of LGBT people ought to be protected?

 

[desura]

But they're actually...? Come on, you're making a comparison between these two groups here, follow through with it.

Out of curiosity, do you think that the freedoms of LGBT people ought to be protected?

Do you think that women should be protected from rape? Bias crimes should be prosecuted, but we're at the point where if you use the wrong pronoun you can be hit with a quarter million dollar fine.

 

[jackstar7]

Read "escalation" again then.

Read all of what you wrote in context again. You made an implication that the alt-right is peaceful and being attacked.

 

[mikeymikec]

Do you think that women should be protected from rape? Bias crimes should be prosecuted, but we're at the point where if you use the wrong pronoun you can be hit with a quarter million dollar fine.

Really? Is there a case that you'd like to cite where this has happened? Because a quick google suggests that a law is being drafted along these lines:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/may/18/de-blasio-fine-businesses-wrong-gender-pronouns/

It lists several examples of violations that could result in fines, including the “intentional and repeated refusal to use an individual’s preferred name, pronoun or title.”

“For example, repeatedly calling a transgender woman ‘him’ or ‘Mr.’ after she has made clear which pronouns and title she uses,” the guide says.

Which is somewhat more than what you suggested, and I don't know about you, but if you insist on calling someone X when they repeatedly have asked you to call them Y, I would consider that intentional disrespect, and to cite your earlier comparison, it would be along the lines of calling a black guy "boy".

My previous question still stands, and while you have come up with an answer with respect to the T in LGBT, there are three remaining letters that for some reason you mentioned. Do you think that the freedoms of LGBT people ought to be protected?

I also asked you to elaborate fully on your attempt to equate leftists with anti-black southerners.

 

[hal2kilo]

Interesting article from Salon.
http://www.salon.com/2017/04/26/dav...ization-maybe-so-but-he-doesnt-understand-it/

David Brooks claims we face a “crisis of Western civilization” — maybe so, but he doesn’t understand it

 

[xthetenth]

Which is somewhat more than what you suggested, and I don't know about you, but if you insist on calling someone X when they repeatedly have asked you to call them Y, I would consider that intentional disrespect, and to cite your earlier comparison, it would be along the lines of calling a black guy "boy".

It'd be analogous to sexual harassment, I'd say.

 

[agent00f]

Do you think that women should be protected from rape? Bias crimes should be prosecuted, but we're at the point where if you use the wrong pronoun you can be hit with a quarter million dollar fine.

It's simple fact that the degenerates shitting on lower status browns by preventing them from having any relationships with whites, particularly females, also shit on other lower status minorities like gays. But degenerates hate facts that make them look bad so they gather, each with their brain cell, and rub them together to concoct extremely strenuous "theories" that only make them look bad after trivial consideration.

 

[Amused]

Interesting article from Salon.
http://www.salon.com/2017/04/26/dav...ization-maybe-so-but-he-doesnt-understand-it/

Wow...

The alt-right considers college students who espouse feminism and LGBT rights as the true enemies of Western civilization besides Muslims and Mexican immigrants. It’s not surprising that there is an elaborate conspiracy theory that goes along with this antipathy and paranoia. It is an anti-Semitic (and anti-intellectual) conspiracy theory which posits that 20th-century intellectuals from the Frankfurt School — who all happened to be German Jews and Holocaust survivors — founded what is called “cultural Marxism” to overturn traditional values by promoting things like homosexuality and political correctness, with the ultimate aim of undermining Western civilization (Not coincidentally, the Nazis had an almost identical conspiracy theory in the 1930s known as “cultural Bolshevism”). The popular YouTube vlogger and editor of Infowars.com, Paul Joseph Watson, recently promoted this unhinged conspiracy theory in a video screed railing against American popular culture:

"From the 20th century onwards, postmodernists, moral relativists, critical theory-espousing cultural Marxist nihilists began to seize control of society. Postmodernism seeks to erase the distinction between high culture and popular culture. They want to turn everything on its head."​

The goal, continued Watson, is to “completely undermine the foundation of Western civilization and leave us open to subversion and capitulation.”
​

This is what I've been talking about. 30 years of right-wing cult propaganda has the followers of it convinced of the paranoid insanity. So much so that they're willing to embrace fascism and racism.

It's highly curious to me that be it the alt-med, science deniers, conspiracy theorists, flat earthers, anti-vaxers or right winger cult, not only are they so utterly deluded about what is, and is not factual, they have literally swallowed that the "others" are doing precisely what the purveyors of the nonsense they follow are doing.

 

[agent00f]

Wow...

The alt-right considers college students who espouse feminism and LGBT rights as the true enemies of Western civilization besides Muslims and Mexican immigrants. It’s not surprising that there is an elaborate conspiracy theory that goes along with this antipathy and paranoia. It is an anti-Semitic (and anti-intellectual) conspiracy theory which posits that 20th-century intellectuals from the Frankfurt School — who all happened to be German Jews and Holocaust survivors — founded what is called “cultural Marxism” to overturn traditional values by promoting things like homosexuality and political correctness, with the ultimate aim of undermining Western civilization (Not coincidentally, the Nazis had an almost identical conspiracy theory in the 1930s known as “cultural Bolshevism”). The popular YouTube vlogger and editor of Infowars.com, Paul Joseph Watson, recently promoted this unhinged conspiracy theory in a video screed railing against American popular culture:

"From the 20th century onwards, postmodernists, moral relativists, critical theory-espousing cultural Marxist nihilists began to seize control of society. Postmodernism seeks to erase the distinction between high culture and popular culture. They want to turn everything on its head."​

The goal, continued Watson, is to “completely undermine the foundation of Western civilization and leave us open to subversion and capitulation.”​

This is what I've been talking about. 30 years of right-wing cult propaganda has the followers of it convinced of the paranoid insanity. So much so that they're willing to embrace fascism and racism.

It's highly curious to me that be it the alt-med, science deniers, conspiracy theorists, flat earthers, anti-vaxers or right winger cult, not only are they so utterly deluded about what is, and is not factual, they have literally swallowed that the "others" are doing precisely what the purveyors of the nonsense they follow are doing.

I always thought it odd to call it the alt-right when it's basically classic right wing rhetoric. Degenerate as it may be by post-enlightenment western standards, it deserves some credit for at least owning up to what it stands for. In contrast it's the comically dishonest "right" that pretends to care about fiscal/personal responsibility or whatever that's been the alternative tried by the GOP for some recent years.

 

[jackstar7]

That's a harsh slam piece on Blue Max and 0roo.

 

[brycejones]

That's a harsh slam piece on Blue Max and 0roo.

Let's not forget chickenmouse as well. A few folks around here have started using that cultural Marxism term around here.

 

[jackstar7]

Let's not forget chickenmouse as well. A few folks around here have started using that cultural Marxism term around here.

I have ignored a few people and then forget they exist...

 

[Azuma Hazuki]

@desura said
>protecting LGBT people, who are kind of the new priests of that movement

"Priests of the movement?"

Go to Hell. 50 years ago I'd have been killed or worse for what I am just trying to survive. I still get threats along the lines of "gonna rape you straight, bitch."

I keep my head down, don't start trouble (but finish it if it starts with me...don't step to the six foot woman whose shoes clank on the concrete, cupcakes!), and am not political beyond giving the local degenerates a well-deserved virtual ass-beating. Like you. Seriously, go to Hell and take every last one of your kind with you. I hope you reincarnate poor and female and gay; see how you like it then.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Exclusionary nationalism is the inherent motivation behind fascism.

OK, so modern-day Japan is fascist, and my point that fascist nations are overall more stable and better places to live than communist ones remains.

Read all of what you wrote in context again. You made an implication that the alt-right is peaceful and being attacked.

No, I stated "escalating violence", which means violence being brought to a level greater than at a previous time. There is no absolute statement of peace or violence, and I could show you posts where I've clearly acknowledged that some of the pro-Trump people were violent as well.

 

[agent00f]

OK, so modern-day Japan is fascist, and my point that fascist nations are overall more stable and better places to live than communist ones remains.

Fascism is also militaristic, ie presumably expansionary, which Japan used to be to the detriment of many, fulfilling the categorical requirements. Contrasting modern day japan to (pre)ww2 era fascist japan makes for a good contrast as to what is and isn't. The contemporary country doesn't ostracize foreigners to anywhere near the extent.

 

[woolfe9998]

OK, so modern-day Japan is fascist, and my point that fascist nations are overall more stable and better places to live than communist ones remains.

Better places to live for whom? The dominant national/ethnic group?

 

[jackstar7]

No, I stated "escalating violence", which means violence being brought to a level greater than at a previous time. There is no absolute statement of peace or violence, and I could show you posts where I've clearly acknowledged that some of the pro-Trump people were violent as well.

Read it again. Then one more time. Then again.

Your implication was crystal clear: the alt-right are peaceful and being attacked by violent leftists.


EDIT: If that's not what you intended, then go back and edit the post to more clearly state what you intended. Pretty simple.

 

[crashtech]

Better places to live for whom? The dominant national/ethnic group?

Probably, right? Seriously, the systems HB references can take advantage of a different kind of social compact where people have far lower expectations in regards to individual liberty, especially if it is seen to harm the collective harmony in some way. Westerners mostly don't go for that, we are like trying to herd cats, though it seems that Northern Europeans have a bit of the collective mindset embedded in their culture.

 

[Jhhnn]

Odd then that CEO's largely look alike; their promise is to keep it that way.

So what? From their perspective, if you're not a player then you're just another ho.

Probably, right? Seriously, the systems HB references can take advantage of a different kind of social compact where people have far lower expectations in regards to individual liberty, especially if it is seen to harm the collective harmony in some way. Westerners mostly don't go for that, we are like trying to herd cats, though it seems that Northern Europeans have a bit of the collective mindset embedded in their culture.

And what liberties do our scandinavian cousins sacrifice?