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EA copy protection taken to new heights

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ZzZGuy

Golden Member
Nov 15, 2006
1,855
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Ah yes, I see that thread that went on 80+ pages last I look with person after person posting their protest over the DRM and stating why they canceled their pre-order had some effect. I suspect it had more to do with the massive dumping of pre-orders from this. 10 day phone home check down, 3 day install and online activation still to go (activation for updates I don't mind, but I will not tolerate it for playing the game).

Looks like the 3 install limit is still in place and seems like you need a internet connection to activate the game. As I said I wasn't buying ME anyway but if this is applied to spore then it's more then enough for me to boycott it.
 

coloumb

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
4,097
0
81
Good to see they [BioWare] are listening to the fan base/customers - ya know - the people who PAY to play these frikken games.
 

CP5670

Diamond Member
Jun 24, 2004
4,866
236
106
It's a good move, but I'm certain that they will still use Securom to do their online activation, so it would make no difference to me. All of EA's recent titles have had Securom in some form. Since the developers can choose which features of it they want to include in their programs, they can just disable the 10 day check but keep everything else the same.
 

wanderer27

Platinum Member
Aug 6, 2005
2,171
15
81
Originally posted by: Soviet
Originally posted by: s44
MASSIVE UPDATE
Good stuff, what about spore though?
From the Gamespy Preview of ME:

[Editor's Note, 5/9/08:] In a post on BioWare's official message board today by community manager Jay Watamaniuk, it was revealed that the requirement for periodic authentication has been removed from Mass Effect and Spore. Game versions will only be checked during initial installation and when players attempt to download content updates or patches.

http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/bioware-rpg/872755p2.html


Now if they can just plain get rid of SecureROM :(
 

Schadenfroh

Elite Member
Mar 8, 2003
38,416
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0
Originally posted by: s44
MASSIVE UPDATE
Q: What is the difference between the old PC disc authentication solution and the new online model?

A: Two things have changed:

? First, authentication of discs has now gone from the physical format to the online format, freeing the need for consumers to have a disc in the drive at all times.

? Second, with online authentication consumers now connect to the Internet the first time the game is launched and are required only to reconnect if they are downloading new game content.
Wow, Bioware must have convinced EA to have a change of heart....
 

MTDEW

Diamond Member
Oct 31, 1999
4,284
37
91
Originally posted by: EarthwormJim
Originally posted by: MTDEW

Anyway,
Lets look at movies for a sec, you can download a movie, and "shrink" it and remove all the extras to get it to fit on a regular cheap dvd, and if you want a NICE copy, you can even download and print the label right onto the dvd and make a dvd sleeve cover, then you have a copy that took a lot of work and time just to have a version that is "almost" as good as the copy you can buy at Walmart for $15 - $20.
And your "close to legit" copy cost you time , ink and a dvd case and cover anyway.

So even people who pirate movies, most likely still buy a real copy if they like the movie and intend to keep it in their collection because its so cheap to own the real thing.
What if a person doesn't care about it appearing close to legit? What if all they want is the movie. $20 a movie adds up quickly, especially if you're in the 18-25 range, which I'm sure the majority of pirates are.

I really think the only way to combat piracy, is cheaper prices. It's already clear people don't care about picture quality and packaging. Maybe if movie companies came out with lower quality, but cheaper movie videos, piracy could go down.
Actually, maybe thats not a bad idea for movies in the future, a downloadable lesser quality
rip of movies for less $$$ that people can burn to a disc and keep.. (im not up to date on downloadable movies, so this may already be the case)
I really cant see retail dvd movies getting any cheaper, sometimes you can get new releases as low as $14.99 and lets be honest, thats fair.

But, yeah, nothing will stop piracy completely, heck people download cams of movies that are out of focus and shake all over the place, just to get a "free" copy.



 

MTDEW

Diamond Member
Oct 31, 1999
4,284
37
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Originally posted by: s44
MASSIVE UPDATE
Now thats GREAT!
God knows i always install a game and go looking for the crack right away, so i dont need the disc in the drive and i can easily go from one game to another without disc swapping hassle.

Im still not 100% happy, Bioshock was a pain in the rear for me like most people who bought it at launch, so much so that i keep a "burnt" copy in the case with my retail copy so i can easily install and play it later if i want without the hassle.

But i dont argue that companies have a right to protect their products, i just wish that with all the people who argue that copy protection only hurts legitimate buyers of the software, that people had more suggestions / ideas of how else to do it.

Because, although i HATE this method, its the best method ive seen so far.
It sure beats that Starforce crap loading junk on my pc.



 

ZzZGuy

Golden Member
Nov 15, 2006
1,855
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Originally posted by: MTDEW
Originally posted by: s44
MASSIVE UPDATE
Now thats GREAT!
God knows i always install a game and go looking for the crack right away, so i dont need the disc in the drive and i can easily go from one game to another without disc swapping hassle.

Im still not 100% happy, Bioshock was a pain in the rear for me like most people who bought it at launch, so much so that i keep a "burnt" copy in the case with my retail copy so i can easily install and play it later if i want without the hassle.

But i dont argue that companies have a right to protect their products, i just wish that with all the people who argue that copy protection only hurts legitimate buyers of the software, that people had more suggestions / ideas of how else to do it.

Because, although i HATE this method, its the best method ive seen so far.
It sure beats that Starforce crap loading junk on my pc.
I've already stated a good alternative that is currently in use and working.
 

BD2003

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
16,815
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Originally posted by: MTDEW
Originally posted by: s44
MASSIVE UPDATE
Now thats GREAT!
God knows i always install a game and go looking for the crack right away, so i dont need the disc in the drive and i can easily go from one game to another without disc swapping hassle.

Im still not 100% happy, Bioshock was a pain in the rear for me like most people who bought it at launch, so much so that i keep a "burnt" copy in the case with my retail copy so i can easily install and play it later if i want without the hassle.

But i dont argue that companies have a right to protect their products, i just wish that with all the people who argue that copy protection only hurts legitimate buyers of the software, that people had more suggestions / ideas of how else to do it.

Because, although i HATE this method, its the best method ive seen so far.
It sure beats that Starforce crap loading junk on my pc.
I still don't see why they are limiting the number of installs. Its still going to be a massive headache, and its not going to prevent piracy any more than it did for bioshock. Its still magnificently stupid.

Piracy sucks, and I know EA wants to believe they can do something about it, but there is absolutely no point in them hassling their paying customers when their countermeasures are useless.

They need to adopt an innocent before proven guilty mentality, rather than the reverse that they're using now.

Here's what they need to do: Make it as easy as possible to buy, install and use the game. Thats it. There is still a huge accessibility problem to PC gaming that no one is really doing anything about but valve. Dont waste time and money fighting a war they cant win. A pirate is a potential sale lost. Someone who trys to install their legal copy and finds out that the software thinks they've stolen it, and prevents them from running it will probably never buy another PC game again.

MS does it right with Vista. Allows you to freely install the software, then activate it when its convenient for you. It wont get on your case unless it has a reason to believe you're using a pirated copy. And if it does, itll direct you on how to purchase it.
 

MTDEW

Diamond Member
Oct 31, 1999
4,284
37
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They did eventually up the Bioshock installs to 5. (for me anyway, after i called a number)
And i believe the limited installs "expires" at some point and it can be installed as much as possible. (it may already be that way for Bioshock, i havent tried installing it in awhile)

But YES i do agree that limiting the number of installs is a pain.
I used up my 3 Bioshock installs installing it on my wifes pc, then on my pc using Vista and Winxp to see the difference directx 10 made.(i was dual booting at the time)

Anyway, i dont think they believe they can stop piracy.

If anything all this does is delay the game being cracked by a week or so, which should help sales at the games release.

Its the best of all worlds for legitimate users, the publisher and pirates.

1: The legit users dont have any starforce crap installed on their pc's and dont have to look for cracks to play without the disc in the drive.
2: The pirates only need to be patient for a week or so after release if they insist on not buying a retail copy they were NEVER gonna buy anyway.
3: The publisher is happy that their sales are higher.

I mean C'mon, what are the pirates complaining about? That they dont get to play the game as soon as people who purchased it do? BIG WHOOP!...So be a "patient pirate" for a week or so, thats fair, the people who purchase legitimate copies PAID for the right to play before you! :D

Man, we should all be happy with this...everyone wins

And hopefully it will help keep pc gaming alive.






 

BD2003

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
16,815
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Originally posted by: MTDEW
They did eventually up the Bioshock installs to 5. (for me anyway, after i called a number)
And i believe the limited installs "expires" at some point and it can be installed as much as possible. (it may already be that way for Bioshock, i havent tried installing it in awhile)

But YES i do agree that limiting the number of installs is a pain.
I used up my 3 Bioshock installs installing it on my wifes pc, then on my pc using Vista and Winxp to see the difference directx 10 made.(i was dual booting at the time)

Anyway, i dont think they believe they can stop piracy.

If anything all this does is delay the game being cracked by a week or so, which should help sales at the games release.

Its the best of all worlds for legitimate users, the publisher and pirates.

1: The legit users dont have any starforce crap installed on their pc's and dont have to look for cracks to play without the disc in the drive.
2: The pirates only need to be patient for a week or so after release if they insist on not buying a retail copy they were NEVER gonna buy anyway.
3: The publisher is happy that their sales are higher.
I'd partially agree with you if #2 actually held up, but as far as I remember, bioshock was cracked on day zero. And on top of that, despite all the assurances that could possibly be given, a lot of people had mountains of trouble with their legally purchased copies of bioshock, while pirates were playing away.

PC gaming is dying because theyre trying to pass off an inferior product.

Would you buy a 6-pack of beer if it had a special cap on it that required the storeowner to open it after verifying your age and purchase, despite the fact that youre 35 and you already paid for the damn beer? Especially when the backdoor is open and 15 year olds just walk in the back and use a stick to pop the beer open?

Would you buy a car that wouldnt start if you didnt scan your title, license, registration and insurance through a reader, and take a breathalyzer test? And then if criminals could hotwire it by rubbing two wires together just the same?

I cant believe people are actually willing to pay for this nonsense. If this is what PC gaming has become, then I hope it dies the miserable death it deserves.

I mean C'mon, what are the pirates complaining about? That they dont get to play the game as soon as people who purchased it do? BIG WHOOP!...So be a "patient pirate" for a week or so, thats fair, the people who purchase legitimate copies PAID for the right to play before you! :D

Man, we should all be happy with this...everyone wins

And hopefully it will help keep pc gaming alive.
Theyre not complaining. Theyre probably laughing, wondering why the hell people actually put up with it, since it certainly isnt getting in their way.

This all wouldnt be so ridiculous if all this copy protection actually worked to some degree. It doesnt, at all.

All I want is to buy a game, and use it with no restrictions. I *bought* it. Is that really, really too much to ask? Seriously.
 

MTDEW

Diamond Member
Oct 31, 1999
4,284
37
91
Well i for one, hope something happens to keep pc gaming alive.

Ive been posting in the Oblivion mod thread here too today and it just reminds me how much more i love gaming on a pc, due to keyboard and mouse controls and mods.

If we can't save pc gaming, then i sure hope we can at least get decent keyboard/mouse support on consoles in the future at the very least.


Oh, and if Bioshock was cracked on day 1 and this protection doesnt actually work, then why not just let them believe it does so they keep publishing on the pc.

Ive been waiting on the pc release to play Mass Effect even though i own a 360.
Because i want the superior controls and better graphics my pc can give me over the 360 version.

 

MTDEW

Diamond Member
Oct 31, 1999
4,284
37
91
All I want is to buy a game, and use it with no restrictions. I *bought* it. Is that really, really too much to ask? Seriously.
Sadly, in this day and age, it just may be too much to ask.
Ya gotta feel for the developers who put so much work into their games only to watch their work get stolen.
Its a shame that pirates dont actually ever buy a retail copy of a game that they think is great, like most post they will do if they like the game , because great games really do deserve great sales figures.
As well as crap games deserve poor sales.

Oh, BTW..
I mentioned i was posting about Oblivion mods, theres a game that never had any protection scheme yet still sold very well....go figure.
 

sjwaste

Diamond Member
Aug 2, 2000
8,758
3
76
Originally posted by: Jax Omen
Prediction: Spore will be the most-pirated game this year. Mass Effect would be up there except everyone who cares already played it on Xbox.



And yeah, it makes me want to pirate it. Instead, I'll probably buy the game then run a crack to circumvent the intrusive DRM. It's what I did with Bioshock >_>
Ah the ol' reacharound.
 

ConstipatedVigilante

Diamond Member
Feb 22, 2006
7,671
1
0
Originally posted by: Lithan
This is hilarious. It'll be cracked in a matter of hours after release.
Yep. Get the guys who cracked Bioshock on this. Granted, they took a few days to do Bioshock, but it was done. And that was the first game w/ online validation.
 

BD2003

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
16,815
0
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Originally posted by: MTDEW
All I want is to buy a game, and use it with no restrictions. I *bought* it. Is that really, really too much to ask? Seriously.
Sadly, in this day and age, it just may be too much to ask.
Ya gotta feel for the developers who put so much work into their games only to watch their work get stolen.
Its a shame that pirates dont actually ever buy a retail copy of a game that they think is great, like most post they will do if they like the game , because great games really do deserve great sales figures.
As well as crap games deserve poor sales.

Oh, BTW..
I mentioned i was posting about Oblivion mods, theres a game that never had any protection scheme yet still sold very well....go figure.
Don't get me wrong, I do feel for the devs. Piracy is wrong, and I might be willing to put up with a little inconvenience if it actually had some effect on the problem. But I'm not willing to put up with major inconvenience when it doesnt solve the problem.

There have been many games that havent had copy protection and have sold quite well. Pirates would pirate it anyway, but it made the software easier to use and less paying customers had problems. It was right side up, for a change.
 

Canai

Diamond Member
Oct 4, 2006
8,016
1
0
God dammit. I was going to buy Spore, but I guess I'll skip that one now. Games dialing home every week are NOT something I want going on with my computer. My internet is unstable as it is, and drops randomly (fuck Charter), and if I buy a game, I don't want to *have* to be connected to the internet to play it. Now, if it checked the validity of the game whenever it updated or uploaded or downloaded a new creature pack, that would be fine. But a time based check? They just lost themselves a sale.

Edit: Mass Effect's DRM scheme is looking great though. One time online validation, and no need for the disc in the drive. That one might be worth purchasing, unless they port the console control scheme and interface.
 

YEPP

Senior member
Jul 30, 2006
385
8
81
Originally posted by: Canai
God dammit. I was going to buy Spore, but I guess I'll skip that one now. Games dialing home every week are NOT something I want going on with my computer. My internet is unstable as it is, and drops randomly (fuck Charter), and if I buy a game, I don't want to *have* to be connected to the internet to play it. Now, if it checked the validity of the game whenever it updated or uploaded or downloaded a new creature pack, that would be fine. But a time based check? They just lost themselves a sale.

Edit: Mass Effect's DRM scheme is looking great though. One time online validation, and no need for the disc in the drive. That one might be worth purchasing, unless they port the console control scheme and interface.
Spore will also be switcing to the newly proposed copy protection mentioned for Mass Effect.

Hey Spore Fans -

We wanted to let you know that we've been hearing your concerns about the online authentication mentioned earlier this week. I didn't want to head into the weekend without getting back to you with some information about how Spore is planning on using this new system.

A few things we wanted you to know:

* We authenticate your game online when you install and launch it the first time.
* We'll re-authenticate when a player uses online features, downloads new content or a patch for their game.
* The new system means you don't have to play with the disc in your computer. And if you are like me, always losing discs, this will be a huge benefit.
* You'll still be able to install and play on multiple computers.
* You can play offline.

We do hope that players will play online - sharing creatures, buildings and vehicles with other players is something that is unique to Spore and one of the coolest features of the game. Every day, when I play the Creature Stage, I get to see wacky and awesome new creatures from my Buddies on the team coming over the hill at me and I can't wait to see what happens when our creative, passionate community starts sharing their creations.

I'd love to write more - but I need to get back to work. We've got a game to finish. :)

-caryl
http://www.gamingsteve.com/arc...re-drm-controversy.php

http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/52618

Dunno how this is looking great, they're still limiting you to 3 lifetime activations then you're at the mercy of EA to give you permission to continue playing a game you've paid for. Not to mention the intrusive DRM they are using to enforce this.
 

Canai

Diamond Member
Oct 4, 2006
8,016
1
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That's awesome :D I just really don't want to be crippled if my net drops right before a timed activation thing.
 

Pia

Golden Member
Feb 28, 2008
1,563
0
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Originally posted by: YEPP

Dunno how this is looking great, they're still limiting you to 3 lifetime activations then you're at the mercy of EA to give you permission to continue playing a game you've paid for. Not to mention the intrusive DRM they are using to enforce this.
Yes. They could easily have planned for this from the start to make the activations go down easier. All it's about, all it ever was about, is that they don't want to sell you the game. They want to sell you a non-transferrable license to install a couple times. Sure, they might allow it now. They might even allow it later, technically, all the while inserting just enough confusion, trouble and FUD into the process that it's hard or impossible to either install more times yourself or resell the game.

The real slimy part of this is not saying it out loud, printing "non-transferrable license, three installs" on top of the box. EA wants to have their cake and eat it, too, and that does not work in the real world without stealing someone else's cake.
 

Excelsior

Lifer
May 30, 2002
19,048
17
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What they're doing with Mass Effect sounds OK to me. Well worth it anyway, so I can play the game. I have a nice gaming computer but not a current gen console so having ME on PC takes away one reason for me to get one.
 

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