E6600@3.6GHz on Air - Should I go Watercooling for more or not fry the CPU?

[JargonGR]

Hello all,

I don't know whether my E6600 @ 3.6ghz is considered anything special as an overclocking achievement but I am really happy with it. But let me post my specs first too:

E6600 L630A287 @ 3.6ghz 1.45V Vcore -- 1.5V in windows (M/B overvolts)
FSB: 1600 (400)

HS - Scythe Infinity with a 120mm Pabst fan and Arctic Silver 5

MEMORY - OCZ Titanium Alpha VX 2GB at 800Mhz 3-3-3-9, 2.35V, 1:1 ration

M/B ASUS P5W64 WS Professional - great and extremelly stable

VGA - EVGA 7950GX2 - (stock speed) - new EVGA8800GTX on the way from Step -up

2x PSU - Enermax (old 500W) powering HD,s Soundcard, Fans etc,

Hipper TypeR 580Watt- Powering M/B and VGA only


My temps are 45C idle and top 67C with Orthos but stay there. I am wondering if it is too high and whether I am in danger of killing the CPU. My case is a CM Stacker (original) and has the the optional side fan (although i have it off for dust reasons) and all the possible fans in it.


Do you think I should go for a watercooling set up (high end) and will it be worth it or should I just save the money and buy a second 8800GTX (I can swap the M/B with my brother and get me an 680i if I need too or go ATI all the way to crosfire if R600 is good).


What do you think? please advice before i waste money. Thnaks

PS: My CPU posts at 3.8Ghz but its not stable in windows and I am afraid to increase voltage more cause of high temps.

 

[n7]

Looks very good.

Watercooling won't get you much further, if at all.

Your temps seem fine based on the vcore you're using.

I'm not sure i'd do 8800 GTX SLI yet, but if you've got money to burn...

 

[JargonGR]

Hey thnx for replying.

I will wait to see if SLI is needed and the only reason I would go for it is if and when I find a satisfying 30" LCD monitor (i.e. the New HP or Dell or Benq when they are all out and review thoroughly) other than that no point for SLI on my 22" CRT.

The reason i thought w/c was because I thought my temps were too high but since you say they are not to worry about I am really reluctunt to spend 200-300 Euros on a w/c setup especially if it could only make me gain only 200Mhz/

 

[orion23]

Your temperatues are just fine.

What are you reading temps with? Coretemp? Asus probe / atibooster? Intel's TAT?

Orthos really stresses the CPU in a way that no game or program will, so I don't really think that you'll see your CPU with those temperatures while gaming (try it and see)

I have a P5WDG2 WS Pro which also overvolts, and my Week 30A can do 3.6ghz with 1.375 - 1.4V (in windows) orthos stable for about 30 minutes (don't care to run it any longer) Besides, it has been very stable during gaming / Winrar / Encoding operations.

 

[JargonGR]

hehe, funny enough Asus Probe II reports the same temperature (1c more) with coretemp. I did not know that games do not stress the CPU as much as Orthos so I go worried but it makes sense too since I have a G15 Logitech keyboard and I can see cpu utilisation on the LCD and its neve 100% on both cores all the time.


However I was also wondering if a good watercooling setup (car Heat Core, a good cpu block etc) would bring my CPU down to ambient close temps (24-28c) so I could push it more - probably not worth it though and I doubt I can hit 4Ghz on water.

 

[theprodigalrebel]

I second the comment that Orthos stresses the CPU in a way no game does. Try running a few loops of 3DMark or checking the temps after a few hours of gaming. I bet they won't be that high. Even 67C doesn't sound 'dangerously high' for a C2D.

 

[JAG87]

Jargon,

I would toss that infinity and get a big typhoon.
you have the stacker with the 25cm fan right... the typhoon will perform like no other heatsink with that kind of airflow from the side panel.

 

[JargonGR]

Hmm I was under the impression that Tuniq Tower and Infinity were about the top air solutions - but I guess you suggest the Typhoon since it will breathe air from outside with the side fan of my stacker.

But I am wondering why none is suggesting a watercooling solution? I was thinking of a dedicated loop to the processor only but I am a bit hesitant of whether its worth the hassle and whether it would help o/c more. By more I mean at least 300 Mhz assuming the temp would go down by 15C or more on the CPU at least. However if this means extra noise, since now I am satisfied with the noise level of my PC, I dont think I want it.

Anyone knows if the water pumps (an Eheim 1250 or a Laing D5) are loud?

 

[myocardia]

The reason that nobody is suggesting watercooling is because good air cooling, like the Scythe Infinity, the Tuniq Tower, etc. are about as good these days, since they are heatpipes. Will your temps come down slightly, if you spend enough on your watercooling setup? Maybe, but not all that far. You're having to use a considerable amount of vcore, and you're already running a high overclock.

There's absolutely no way to have near ambient temps, even with watercooling, when you're running @ 1.5v @ 3.6 Ghz. Not even close, as a matter of fact.

 

[The-Noid]

phase change. Vapochill or Prometia are always a good idea. www.vapochill.com

 

[5uperGlu3]

i have the same cpu and i am clocked at the same speed as you are. the big difference is that i'm not ever going over 40C under load. orthos, prime95, 3Dmark05/06 running multi loops and that my vcore is over 1.55. if your hitting that speed on air your doing better than i am. 3.59 and 1795 FSB is about the best i can get. could be that you have a better cpu than i do or mobo or any number of other things. at this point in the game for you, if you wanted more out of your cpu you might want to go with better cooling than air. 3.6 is a really good speed for that cpu on air and the fact that your only at 1.45 vcore is a really good sign that you can take that particular cpu even father. 67C on load is right about at the limit for temps that i wouldn't go over, but thats me. myocardia is right tho, you will never get your temps at the ambient temp with that vcore and clock speed. when i first installed my cpu on water cooling, i was getting temps of 23C at stock speed about 25-26C under load. that was also with the vcore at stock. now i'm running 3.59 with 1.55 vcore and my temps are around 37C. that is a lot hotter, but more ideal with such a high vcore. i am very happy with my custom water cooling setup and i feel much safer with my temps below 40C. are the much lower temps worth the $250 i spent on my water cooling? for me yes. that is a question you are going to have to ask yourself. remember that more performance cost more $$$. hope this helps

 

[JargonGR]

Ok guys thank you all very much for your replies I think.

I got a real world idead from you now and its simple - I will have lower temps with a good (250$ - Euros - w/c setup) but its not going to take me higher than I am now maybe a 100-200 Mhz more and that is a lot.

It seems that the only real option for truly increased o/c is phase change but I am afraid that it may be too noisy. All in all I am really happy with my CPU and I have noticed a huge jump in performance from my aging FX-53 non o/ced (had crappy board). So I might consider a Vapochill after all in the future if I find out that noise is low.

Finally 5uperGlu3 are you watercooling your GPU too or just the CPU? I am waiting for my 8800GTX and the new 30" from Dell (or Benq) and since I will need a 2560x1600 res I need all the power I can get so I will go SLI too and was thinking of w/c on those too with 1 or 2 seperate loops.


Ideally the best would be:

Vapochill on the CPU for 4Ghz+
Custom box (painted or decorated I will see) with 2x Heatercores and reservoirs, pumps, outside my main case
for 2x 8800GTXs or Crosfires if R600 proves to be better.

Its actually the first time after many years of owning PCs that I have the money to do I what I want so I am looking forward to those (hehe getting older has its bonuses; 32 now).

 

[5uperGlu3]

yeah, i have 2 7800gtx and they are both watercooled and they are all three (cpu and 2xgpu) in the same loop. if you are looking at 8800gtxs and wish to water cool them as well, i recommend a bfg 8800gtx. they have a vid card out that comes with a danger den water block already on it. the nice thing about them too is that they only take up one slot so you don't block other pci slots. when i get the money, this is going to be the card i get. it costs a little more, but you would still ahve to pay for the waterblock anyway. you can find info on it here. i'm not sure if they are out yet because i havn't really looked.

 

[5uperGlu3]

also, if your going to do w/c, you really won't need more than one loop. havning a high flow pump, large radiator and decent size reservoir will keep your temps down and close to the same degree. This is the rad i have and it works great. you just need a big case to fit it in. if money is no object this beast would be more ideal. i don't like the idea of having all that just outside the main case, i like everything internal, but thats just me. let me know if you have any questions about radiators, pumps, etc. i have a bit of experience and if i can help i will.

 

[lenjack]

I would chill out (bad pun), and leave it alone.. You're right on the bleeding edge. No need to risk instability.

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: lenjack
I would chill out (bad pun), and leave it alone.. You're right on the bleeding edge. No need to risk instability.

Yep, you've got an awesome rig with outstanding clocks. Unless you run into something that you want an extra 3% performance out of, it's not worth pushing harder on your current setup.

 

[Itczar]

Can someone tell me how two power supply units were hooked up?

"2x PSU - Enermax (old 500W) powering HD,s Soundcard, Fans etc, Hipper TypeR 580Watt- Powering M/B and VGA only"

 

[Ayah]

3.6GHz? I'd stop there. That's a nice ride with air cooling.

 

[JargonGR]

Itczar,

The way I have connected the 2 PSUS is with a cable that was included with my CM STACKER Case - (the cable is a Y split). Its actually fairly simple and if you ask around here people will know which pins they are I think 12& 14 or sthing like that not sure though. It's funny how my PC needs 2 Plugs on the wall now but my voltages have never been better before.


On the water cooling part now as I said I was thinking about it for fun as well now performance wise it might not be worth it for the CPU (although it could take me higher) but the GPUs are still ridiculously hot on air. So considering that I am going with a 30" Monitor when the new Dell or Benq are available (waiting for them first), I will either get a second 8800GTX for SLI or go for R600 crossfire if it is better.

With the 30" it means a resolution of 2560x1600 and that needs huge power so I will overclock the GPUs as high as I can. Thi is where I expect watercooling to help a lot as after research I found that there are temperature reductions of 25-30C on load compared to air.

- 5uperGlu3

I am looking for a high end W/C so what would you suggest for:

- Radiator - is Blacke Ice GTX 360 or 480 (extreme) the best? (I would try to avoid a car heater core - too much hassle)

- For a pump I came down to a Laing D5 Vario but is this noisy? What about the Eheim 1250?

- CPU block - is SWIFTEC STORM G4 the best or is a DD TDX ok too because the storm is hard to find in stock.

I have never used a W/C setup before but I found info on those parts by browsing the net.

 

[Csst]

I have a X6800 running at 3.6 with a 1.4 Vcore and i had a Ultra 120 and the temps weren't that great for my taste mine would reach about 68C under full load. I switch to water cooling and now i get temps in the 49 50 under full load. If you really want to test your temps out i suggest you try using this program. orthos is nothing compared to this one here. Try it out for yourself and see what your temps are.

Click here

 

[markymoo]

your temps are similar to what others get with that setup. your at your peak of stability on air. swapping it for superior hsf will give just a few degrees difference and wont be enough. you have to do something abit more drastic to reach beyond unless your lucky. the highend hsf are as good as some wc so you going to have to get some top wc (apogee, thermochill, 1/2" tubing, dangerden pump) then no point doing all that if you dont give thought to your nb. so if you think its justified spending money on a high end wc setup to get 400mhz more worth it then go for it. its still no guarantee. looking at your parts money doesnt seem to be a limiting factor. at least you can take comfort your parts are cooled better and wont burn out as quick. why you want your pc faster is it purely for oc?

 

[JargonGR]

makymoo:

YOu say that high-end air hsf are as effective as some wc; how more high-end than the Scythe Infinity I already use - do you mean a TEC air cooler or you include the one I use in this category.

Yet, there are various reasons I want my PC faster; I want to do video editing, game at 2560x1600 at full quality (waiting for BENQ or Dell's new 30" monitor and will go SLI 8800GTX or R600 crossfire) and ofc the fun out of it since I see it as a hobby and I want to construct a custom box too for my WC. I would get a Vapochill LS but other users told me it needs some maintainance every 2-3 months and I can't be bothered. I could also have gotten an Intel X6800 but after a bad o/c experience with an Athlon FX I can not justify paying so much for a processor again and indeed an E6600 is the sweet spot I think and at a really good price.


Now regarding the cost of a top WC setup its not that bad if you think about it. YOu keep it for a long time and can also cool your dual GPUs too not to mention that I could keep my CPU for sometime long too unless sthing really revolutionary comes out which I doubt it will be soon.

So anyone knows if the DangerDen pump or Laing D5 - Vario are really loud?

What do you think about an Eheim 1250? That is a main concern actually, will the WC setup be loud if I want it to perform?

 

[bterrill]

I have a L29A435 e6600 on liquid cooling and dual prime tortures only stable at 3.6-3.61 ghz... the fact you are stable at that on air is amazing, but I hear a lot of good about the week 30

If you look at conroe OC dbs you will notice most water guys are only hitting 3.4-3.8 stable, with the avg being 3.5-3.6 (on e6600)

the best OC chip, however unsure if these are benchs only [I can run 4M pi @ 3.97 ghz but not do much else without crash, 3.6 im 18 h 47 m stable and I kill the 2 torture tests then] and I am fine for dvd shrinks, fps games etc.

again, I am using 1.56 vcore bios, 1.51-1.53 windows to do this. can someone with more experience/knowledge tell me if this week 30 chip is just t hat good or did I hit a wall or am I just unlucky. I know oc depends a LOT on your chp batch and stuff.

thanks and like most say I think wc is a waste with them speeds/vcores if you are stable on stress test.... I would never of dropped $300 on liquid cooling if I could of hit past 3.1 ghz on air (granted this was stock intel pos hsf)

p.s. my cpu is only liquid cooled, am on 7950 eVGA Super Knockout (or something) 512 MB DDR3 video nvidia. I am unsure if this not being in the loop with a waterblock is a factor in my 3.6 wall. I am not even pumping my gieL ultra low 4-4-4-12 1000 mhz ram; its stuck @ 900 mhz from the 450 fsb clock. I do only use ONE power supply, a hiper 580 watt and unsure if that also is stopping my speed.

You hear about so many guys hitting 3.4-3.8 ghz on the e6400, some on e6600 with big typhon or scythe infinity I am wondering if I'm just that unlucky or I got a bad chip.

p.s. sorry for taking over your thread, but that you got less Vcore, same speed, with AIR is amazing to me. You should be extremly happy with that system, I would of never liquid cooled (first time, was a nightmare ... heh) if I could of hit your stats on air man. that is real kick ass, good job.

 

[JargonGR]

Hmm you got me thinking bterrill; and I do realise now that for AIR I am very lucky. However U was extremely unlucky too with a ptrevious chip I had an FX-53 that would not overclock jack maybe 100mhz but that was it (on AIR that is and I did stop there)

Regarding your chip well from what I have read bear in mind that the 4MB cache chips are a bit harder to o/c than the 2MB cache ones (more transistors) so after 3.6ghz I am not surprised that its a bet if your chip can make it or not. But lets face the truth here - Inter has offered us a chip that is an outstanding performer and o/c like hell compared to what we had the last 2-3 years so I am really happy with it. Will mine or yours make it further? Who knows the fact is that we paid for a much lower performance and we get a lot more than a X6800 that costs 3 times as much.

On the W/C front - I would indeed feel safer with some lower temps that would prolong my chip's life especially with the hot summers here in Greece although an A/C is taking care of that in the room too. But as I said sometimes to my above posts a w/c setup can also cool my GPUs A LOT better than air. Is it worth it with an SLI and the huge cost of Waterblocks? Not really but if you include the fun factor then yes it is and you also get extra performance with it.


BTW anyone knows if a Northbridge TEMP of 32C at idle is good this is with passive cooling on it ofc.


PS: Please post as much as you like in my thread we are here to discuss and exchange opinions.

PS: The 2 PSU setup is indeed nice my voltages are +3.33v, +5.12v, +12.3v which is the best I ever had but maybe its my ASUS WS64 Pro that overvolts I don't really know.

 

[Noubourne]

As is evident from superglu's post - even a bad water cooling setup (and using a BIP is certainly bad form for any loop), will buy you much lower temps - 40C range load, and allow you to push higher voltage through it. It lets you push volts that would be suicidal for your chip on air.

As others have stated though, even a good water loop might not buy you more than 200Mhz more, since 3.6Ghz is already an outstanding OC for a C2D.

3.6 is what I am hoping for when I move to Conroe, and I was expecting to need water to get there. The fact that you've done it much cheaper is a bonus for you!!