DX11 Market Steam Hardware Survey - AMD maintains 80% of the DX11 Market

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happy medium

Lifer
Jun 8, 2003
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You can get a 5870 for 249$ on newegg after MIR, with free shipping.
You can get a 6870 for 239$ on newegg after MIR.

More like 27-29 FPS vs 30 FPS.

heaven_1920_1200.gif

Slowspyder was talking about a specific game I think earlier in the thread.
I just took that game and subtracted 80fps and came up with those numbers. My point was 140 fps now could turn into 50 fps later and the card that got 100 fps now would be unplayable in the future. i think thats a very relevent point.
I'd rather have the 140fps card now wouldn't you? Especially at the same price.
 

railven

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2010
6,604
561
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I was talking to slowspyder and he was changing the subject.

Asking a question involving tessellation and a graphic card's performance along a chain of tessellation related posts revolving around a graphic card's performance in a thread that is titled DX11 - of which Tessellation is a selling point - is changing the subject?

Hmmmm....
 

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
31,413
9,307
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Slowspyder was talking about a specific game I think earlier in the thread.
I just took that game and subtracted 80fps and came up with those numbers. My point was 140 fps now could turn into 50 fps later and the card that got 100 fps now would be unplayable in the future. i think thats a very relevent point.
I'd rather have the 140fps card now wouldn't you? Especially at the same price.

Wat?

Usually when people pull numbers from their arse they try and hide it.

Kudos :thumbsup:
 

railven

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2010
6,604
561
126
Wat?

Usually when people pull numbers from their arse they try and hide it.

Kudos :thumbsup:

You should see his FRAPs post a while back.
FRAPS: 100, 100, 100, 100, 100, 100, 100
Max 80
Min 2
Average 20
Conclusion: AMD fails.

Haha
 

happy medium

Lifer
Jun 8, 2003
14,387
480
126
Wat?

Usually when people pull numbers from their arse they try and hide it.

Kudos :thumbsup:

you didnt answer my questions though.

Most gtx480's and 5870's can run games at high fps now . Say (like slowspyder said) one game is running at 140 fps (on the gtx) and 100 fps on the 5870.
Would it matter? I agree it would not matter now.

Now switch to say next summer that same game with the same game engine but much more tessalation comes out with a part 2 of the said game.

Now 5870 is playing at say 20 fps (AMD) vs 50 fps (GTX). Why because the game has more tessalation, higher amount of textures ect. ect. ect.

SO I guess the answer is for game developers need to have small, med, large amounts of tessalation in games . I would think the gtx owners are gonna be much happier campers when they can use the maximum amout of tessalation quality in the said game while the 58/68xx series owner will be at newegg upgrading.
 
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railven

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2010
6,604
561
126
you didnt answer my questions though.

Most gtx480's and 5870's can run games at high fps now . Say (like slowspyder said) one game is running at 140 fps (on the gtx) and 100 fps on the 5870.
Would it matter? I agree it would not matter now.

Now switch to say next summer that same game with the same game engine but much more tessalation comes out with a part 2 of the said game.

Now 5870 is playing at say 20 fps (AMD) vs 50 fps (GTX). Why because the game has more tessalation, higher amount of textures ect. ect. ect.

SO I guess the answer is for game developers need to have small, med, large amounts of tessalation in games . I would think the gtx owners are gonna be much happier campers when they can use the maximum amout of tessalation quality in the said game while the 58xx series owner will be at newegg upgrading.

In this scenario, being a 5870 owner to be honest I'd be happy that my 2.5 year old tech videocard is even capable of playing the games with certain options on high/medium.

I think my girlfriend with a GTX 460 would feel the same.

You kept referring to people who won't be upgrading yearly anymore. The GTX 480 wasn't around when I was in the market to upgrade, so that wouldn't be my concern because I wouldn't be upgrading from a 5870 to a 480.
 

Skurge

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2009
5,195
1
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you didnt answer my questions though.

Most gtx480's and 5870's can run games at high fps now . Say (like slowspyder said) one game is running at 140 fps (on the gtx) and 100 fps on the 5870.
Would it matter? I agree it would not matter now.

Now switch to say next summer that same game with the same game engine but much more tessalation comes out with a part 2 of the said game.

Now 5870 is playing at say 20 fps (AMD) vs 50 fps (GTX). Why because the game has more tessalation, higher amount of textures ect. ect. ect.

SO I guess the answer is for game developers need to have small, med, large amounts of tessalation in games . I would think the gtx owners are gonna be much happier campers when they can use the maximum amout of tessalation quality in the said game while the 58/68xx series owner will be at newegg upgrading.

You can't say something like that. You could easily end up with other bottlenecks. The Geforce has much less pixel fill rate, so that game could be running at a much higher resolution bringing the Geforce to its knees too.
 

happy medium

Lifer
Jun 8, 2003
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You can't say something like that. You could easily end up with other bottlenecks. The Geforce has much less pixel fill rate, so that game could be running at a much higher resolution bringing the Geforce to its knees too.

Thats a good point Skurge, but it is possible very possible.
 

Skurge

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2009
5,195
1
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Thats a good point Skurge, but it is possible very possible.

Yes, Im just saying that you might end up with the Radeon at 20fps and the Geforce at 80fps in that particular game, but it could be reversed in another game.
 

happy medium

Lifer
Jun 8, 2003
14,387
480
126
Yes, Im just saying that you might end up with the Radeon at 20fps and the Geforce at 80fps in that particular game, but it could be reversed in another game.

I was talking about future games that use more tessalation and games with a option to change the amount of tessalation. The gtx cards will do much better image quality, with faster fps in the future, in my opinion.
 

cusideabelincoln

Diamond Member
Aug 3, 2008
3,274
41
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Thats a good point Skurge, but it is possible very possible.
It's possible the 5870 will be slower, but you just pulled numbers out of your ass. Quite frankly, that is ridiculous, and anybody can make such stupid claims.

This kinda reminds me of my x800xtpe agp card that didnt have sm3.0. I remember getting a 7800gs card so I could play games that had this requirement later on.
I wonder if this same situation will happen with people with 5xxx series cards and tessalation. Besides the people who upgrade often in this forum it could effect people who dont upgrade every year.
:| :| :| @ you even think those two scenarios are the same.

Without SM3.0 support the games wouldn't run at all on the X800 cards.

This is more akin to choosing between a 7900 or X1900 card, or an 8600GT vs. 7600GT, but whether or not the current scenario plays out the same remains to be seen.
 

Lonbjerg

Diamond Member
Dec 6, 2009
4,419
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Why AMD is adding more tessellation power probably has a lot to do with marketing. It's the same reason you can get a GeForce 8400GS with 1GB of memory. If AMD's 2400 Pro only had 256MB, you can bet they'd want to release a 1GB model. AMD and Nvidia want to match up with one another. Right now Nvidia can claim tessellation superiority and show the benches, even if AMD's cards provide the same gaming experience (100FPS vs. 140FPS provides the same, but 140 is more, right?).


Like I said being 50% slower than your competition is PR nightmare.


Well, we aren't on an underwear forum discusing the superiority of brand x boxers brand z boxers. We are on a computer forum, on a video and graphics subforum. It's a simple question...

No it's not a simple...or even relevant questioen.
It's a red herring a best...ad hominem at worst.

I don't think AMD feels that this is a problem that needs correction. My guess is that they do feel that they need to do something for the marketing reasons, the same reason why tessellation is important to Nvidia... not because of actual games, but marketing. The same reason DX10.1 was a big deal for AMD... marketing.

They cannot fix it in their current arch.
They need a new core redsign to do what NVIDIA hence.
Hence why they talk about to much tessellation.
Because there is no simple fix.
But it is important to AMD...why do you think they went to the press in the first place...because they didn't care?

As far as speculation that developers shelved tessellation because of the performance on AMD cards, show me one game, a single game, that uses tessellation that is unplayable on AMD hardware. You'll have a hardtime finding a game that doesn't average 30+ FPS at 1080P resolution. There are plenty of settings and features that will make a game unplayable on many cards that developers include. So it is ridiculous to speculate that develpers did not create games with tessellation becuase AMD had the only tessellator in town for 6 months of the DX11 era before Nvidia launched a card with a superior tessellator.

If games were designed around current AMD hardware (and tessellation power) you are asking for the impossible.
You think any developer would go "Hey, tessellation is cool, but at this level it won't run on current harware...*bleep* that we will make it so anyway"?

So drop the lame fallacies, current DX11 games were designed on (and with the limitations) of current AMD hardware.

Some times the excuses/damagecontrol just gets to retarded.
 

SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
17,305
1,001
126
you didnt answer my questions though.

Most gtx480's and 5870's can run games at high fps now . Say (like slowspyder said) one game is running at 140 fps (on the gtx) and 100 fps on the 5870.
Would it matter? I agree it would not matter now.

Now switch to say next summer that same game with the same game engine but much more tessalation comes out with a part 2 of the said game.

Now 5870 is playing at say 20 fps (AMD) vs 50 fps (GTX). Why because the game has more tessalation, higher amount of textures ect. ect. ect.

SO I guess the answer is for game developers need to have small, med, large amounts of tessalation in games . I would think the gtx owners are gonna be much happier campers when they can use the maximum amout of tessalation quality in the said game while the 58/68xx series owner will be at newegg upgrading.

Here is the issue I have with this line of thinking, that future games will be unplayable on AMD hardware but likely playable on Nvidia hardware. In this line of thinking, we would have to assume that tessellation power is the only limiting factor. We have one game today that uses DX11 and with options turned up, AA, and tessellation on is pretty much unplayable for the most part on any card, Metro 2033.

Let's consider how PC gaming gets most of it's AAA titles these days - console ports. Do we honestly think that in 6 months, when current consoles are still being used, that there is going to be much in the way that is unplayable on a 5870 that a GTX470 can breeze through? I don't think there will be.

And when we look a little further out, we have to consider that rumors point to the next XBox using an AMD sourced GPU. Nintendo has used an ATI/AMD part in it's last two consoles. It wouldn't be too far of a stretch to suggest that a lot of games are going to be developed on or for AMD hardware.

I guess I just see this issue as being damage control on the AMD marketing end, and only marketing as that's the only place this is an issue really. I see attempting to create damage, and some of the Nvidia fans gobbling it up or trying to create their own spin and damage, on the marketing end. I just don't see this as a real issue, and by the time I think it is, we won't want to be using 5870's or GTX480's anyway.
 

SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
17,305
1,001
126
Lonbjerg, you are right, it's a PR nightmare, but that's all it is. It's bad press. But there is no meat and potatoes behind it.

Like I said, if the 8400GS came available with 1GB and the 2400Pro only came with up to 256MB, you can bet Nvidia would spin that to an advantage and AMD would try and explain that it doesn't matter.

Anyway, I'm going to go back to playing Unique Heaven, it's a cool game. I just wish I got better frame rates in that awesome game!
 

TemjinGold

Diamond Member
Dec 16, 2006
3,050
65
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Wait wait, let me get this straight, guys. This conversation started with "AMD's DX11 marketshare doesn't matter because all current cards (both sides) aren't strong enough to play real DX11 games" and has now turned into "AMD sucks because nVidia's current tess is so much stronger"?

You can't have it both ways. If "all current cards aren't strong enough to run real DX11 games," then when those strong tess "real" DX11 games come out, EVERYONE will need to upgrade, red or green. Which would of course, render nVidia's current tess dominance moot.

So which is it? All current cards can't play real DX11 or nVidia wipes the floor with AMD? For this tess argument to hold, you have to give credit where due with regards to AMD's DX11 marketshare--that it matters. Sure AMD owners may need to upgrade for the strong tess stuff but there will be FAR more nVidia owners upgrading for DX11 period because they only hold ~20% of the DX11 market right now.
 

bryanW1995

Lifer
May 22, 2007
11,144
32
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ugh... DX11 but weakass tessellation, one of the main DX11 feature.
80% is hollow! Methinks Steam survey is a steaming pile of meaninglessness. Que no?

yeah, except when green has more market share right?

this entire thread is a troll fest. what fun!
 

Lonyo

Lifer
Aug 10, 2002
21,938
6
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yeah, except when green has more market share right?

this entire thread is a troll fest. what fun!

Steam hardware survey is always useless for what people usually try to use it for. No matter who is 'in the lead'.
 

notty22

Diamond Member
Jan 1, 2010
3,375
0
0
Steam Survey also shows that most use 1680x1050, then 1920x1080, 1280x1024
Anything higher than 1920x isn't even mentioned and must fall under 'other' so doesn't even count/ sarcasm :)
 

Skurge

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2009
5,195
1
71
Steam hardware survey is always useless for what people usually try to use it for. No matter who is 'in the lead'.

I agree, although I like looking at how far windows 7 64bit has gained on XP. I think those figures are pretty useful.