DVDShrink - Is it better if you do an "analysis"?

[Muse]

When you open a disk with the program it does some kind of analysis. There's an "Analysis" button on top, though and I wonder if you press it and let the program do its thing, does the rip come out better? I'm ripping a full disk at 57.5% right now, and did do the "analysis" thing, but it took a long time, maybe 45 minutes. Thanks for information.

 

[CalvinHobbes]

Doing deep analysis is supposed to help with the rip but if you're doing 57%, it's time to split to two discs or get a dual layer disc.

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: CalvinHobbes
Doing deep analysis is supposed to help with the rip but if you're doing 57%, it's time to split to two discs or get a dual layer disc.

I usually don't rip at such a low percent. I thought I'd see how it comes out. It's a documentary type (Sicko), so I figure it's pretty OK to experiment with this.

Can you split to two disks and still get the full disk, i.e. with the menu's etc.? I thought that was just if you reauthor the disk. AFAIK, when you reauthor you kind of give up the menus. Maybe I just don't know how to do it.

 

[EarthwormJim]

Why not lower the quality on secondary things, like the bonus features and menus?

Deep analysis seemed to help a bit more with blockiness, but I never did any real experiments.

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: EarthwormJim
Why not lower the quality on secondary things, like the bonus features and menus?

Deep analysis seemed to help a bit more with blockiness, but I never did any real experiments.

Yes, it's true you can up the quality on some of it, lower it on others. Forgot about that. Well, I already did the rip. I'll see what it looks like. I have a pretty good setup so it should be apparent.

 

[n7]

DVD Rebuilder.

It's always been miles better than DVD Shrink, even using the freeware encoder (HC Encoder) that's included.

Of course, getting CCE will give the best results.

DVD-RB isn't what i'd call easy per say, but with a little reading, you'll have to set up in no time.

I don't know how many hundreds of DVDs i've done, but DVD-RB is much better than Shrink.

If you can keep compression for the main movie over 80%, you'll be okay with Shrink.

But since it's a transcoder not an encoder, it really cannot do a good job with heavy compression.

You get actual re-encoding with DVD-RB, & while it will take a lot longer, it will also do a far better job.

I haven't done DVD re-encoding for a while now, but when i was doing it alot, i found it that w/ DVD-RB & CCE, i could pretty much do down to around 55% w/o much quality losss.

 

[0roo0roo]

depends on the size of screen you watch it back on i guess.
at this point with hd out. it doesn't matter. you are taking low res and compressing it further. its a compromised situation either way. if you really ever feel like rewatching a film in the future you'll be better off seeing the hd version.

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
depends on the size of screen you watch it back on i guess.
at this point with hd out. it doesn't matter. you are taking low res and compressing it further. its a compromised situation either way. if you really ever feel like rewatching a film in the future you'll be better off seeing the hd version.

I have never even laid eyes on HD, either HD DVD or Blu-Ray. I know, I'm due for a stop at Circuit City or maybe Best Buy, stand there and gawk a while. I have an upscaling to 720p stand-alone DVD player and a 720p natively supporting rear projector (Sanyo PLV-Z2), projecting from 10 feet onto a white screen, and a 16x9 image comes out around 5' x 3.5'. Regular DVDs look great to me (who has never witnessed HD). I was used to SVHS recording of movies off TV, which really beat VHS tapes, let me tell you if you don't know, so DVDs, at least well made DVDs of well made movies look unbelievably great in comparison.

I do have an HDTV card in my main computer and I watch HD recordings with the same setup, and that is noticeably sharper than DVDs. It's either actual 720p or 1080i, coverted by my projector to 720p (and it looks absolutely the same to me). I suppose that HD DVD or Blu-Ray look noticeably better than what I'm seeing there, but frankly, I can't imagine that the difference is anything like the improvement of DVD over SVHS. Anyway, 720p level resolution isn't available on DVD. I believe that Blu-Ray is basically 1080p vs. 480p for DVD. I suppose my next projector will be 1080p and I'll get a Blu-Ray deck. No immediate plans for that.

 

[AnitaPeterson]

Also, don't forget to use an amazing little piece of freeware called MenuShrink, BEFORE you start processing the DVD...

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: AnitaPeterson
Also, don't forget to use an amazing little piece of freeware called MenuShrink, BEFORE you start processing the DVD...

Hey, I'd never heard of it. I'll check it out!

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: AnitaPeterson
Also, don't forget to use an amazing little piece of freeware called MenuShrink, BEFORE you start processing the DVD...

I just saw in DVDShrink, that instead of Automatic you can select Still Pictures. So, I figure ( ? ) I can select Menus/Still Pictures and get the same thing. Is this essentially true? For instance, I'm ripping a DVD right now and the full disk is 63.3%, but with the menus set to Still Pictures it's 64.7%. If I select Still Pictures for the Extras, the whole thing is 65.5%.

 

[Davegod]

If you hit "re-author" you can cut anything out you dont want. Since this breaks the menu's tho, just add back the main movie. Then use the start/stop button to cut off the credits (I leave about 5 seconds of credits) and any excess intro (logos etc). This will always get you the minimum amount of compression needed. If you want the menu's and only some of the objects in it, yes replace the unwanted ones with a still image.

I always use deep analysis, it doesn't take long.

65% is still low though, sounds like you have a movie that fills up both layers with few extras. DivX will be a lot better tho will also take a LOT longer and require a DivX player.

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: Davegod
If you hit "re-author" you can cut anything out you dont want. Since this breaks the menu's tho, just add back the main movie. Then use the start/stop button to cut off the credits (I leave about 5 seconds of credits) and any excess intro (logos etc). This will always get you the minimum amount of compression needed. If you want the menu's and only some of the objects in it, yes replace the unwanted ones with a still image.

I always use deep analysis, it doesn't take long.

65% is still low though, sounds like you have a movie that fills up both layers with few extras. DivX will be a lot better tho will also take a LOT longer and require a DivX player.

That's a good idea about the credits. I'll have to start doing that.

Thing about still images for some of the extras, I generally can't tell what is what in DVDShrink in terms of the extras. Sometimes I burn a DVD-RW as an experiement and if I don't like the result I can try again.

I'm not sure I've ever created a DivX from a DVD. My player can play them, though. Are the results a lot better? Can I create DivX's with a free tool?

 

[Davegod]

If you load up DVDShrink and hit re-author, you'll see a block of "menus", "main movie" and "extras". Click on any and you can view it using the preview pane in the bottom-left corner. Occasionally DVD Shrink it's quite on with the "main movie" so it's worth doing this anyway - I think it assumes the biggest file is the main movie. BTW, if it's a series you'll often find that you have each episode available seperately plus another title which has the whole thing for the "play all" option.

TBH I only made a DivX video once, using the free trial of the official app. The quality is a hell of a lot better when you are heavily shrinking, for example at 1gb a well compressed movie isnt far off what you get from 4.7gb DVDShrink at I dunno, say 70%. It's quite clever how it processes it, while DVDShrink heavy compression looks grainy and annoying DivX is more comfortable to watch.

 

[Davegod]

Originally posted by: n7
DVD Rebuilder.

It's always been miles better than DVD Shrink, even using the freeware encoder (HC Encoder) that's included.

Of course, getting CCE will give the best results.

DVD-RB isn't what i'd call easy per say, but with a little reading, you'll have to set up in no time.

I don't know how many hundreds of DVDs i've done, but DVD-RB is much better than Shrink.

If you can keep compression for the main movie over 80%, you'll be okay with Shrink.

But since it's a transcoder not an encoder, it really cannot do a good job with heavy compression.

You get actual re-encoding with DVD-RB, & while it will take a lot longer, it will also do a far better job.

I haven't done DVD re-encoding for a while now, but when i was doing it alot, i found it that w/ DVD-RB & CCE, i could pretty much do down to around 55% w/o much quality losss.

What about AnyDVD? I heard that was pretty good too.

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: Muse

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
depends on the size of screen you watch it back on i guess.
at this point with hd out. it doesn't matter. you are taking low res and compressing it further. its a compromised situation either way. if you really ever feel like rewatching a film in the future you'll be better off seeing the hd version.

I have never even laid eyes on HD, either HD DVD or Blu-Ray. I know, I'm due for a stop at Circuit City or maybe Best Buy, stand there and gawk a while. I have an upscaling to 720p stand-alone DVD player and a 720p natively supporting rear projector (Sanyo PLV-Z2), projecting from 10 feet onto a white screen, and a 16x9 image comes out around 5' x 3.5'. Regular DVDs look great to me (who has never witnessed HD). I was used to SVHS recording of movies off TV, which really beat VHS tapes, let me tell you if you don't know, so DVDs, at least well made DVDs of well made movies look unbelievably great in comparison.

I do have an HDTV card in my main computer and I watch HD recordings with the same setup, and that is noticeably sharper than DVDs. It's either actual 720p or 1080i, coverted by my projector to 720p (and it looks absolutely the same to me). I suppose that HD DVD or Blu-Ray look noticeably better than what I'm seeing there, but frankly, I can't imagine that the difference is anything like the improvement of DVD over SVHS. Anyway, 720p level resolution isn't available on DVD. I believe that Blu-Ray is basically 1080p vs. 480p for DVD. I suppose my next projector will be 1080p and I'll get a Blu-Ray deck. No immediate plans for that.

oh, its like far bigger than svhs to dvd. we are talking 6 times the resolution of dvd on the hdtv optical formats. it is not insignificant. even at 720p its 3 times the resolution. assuming your projector actually has a decent number of actual pixels and isn't rescaling like mad you'll see quite a difference. so many cr@p tvs wrongly advertised as hd have not been able to resolve the extra detail and have given a wrong impression of hdtv for some. sometimes broadcast or other source hdtv looks a bit cr@p because of over compression though. but the difference with the disc formats is unquestionable. it is night and day.

screenshots
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=811102

the difference is even apparent in animated films like enchanted
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1010547

you are just never going to upscale 720x480 into 1920x1080. the difference is vast. even for 1280x720. if they look similar somethings wrong with the display.

 

[n7]

Originally posted by: Davegod

What about AnyDVD? I heard that was pretty good too.

AnyDVD does decryption.

Not re-encoding [like DVD-RB + HC encoder/CCE].

DVD Shrink does decryption (though as it's old, it doesn't work on some newer DVDs), & transcoding.

And Muse, the difference between DVD & HD is massive IMO.

But it does somewhat depend on the person & display being used.

I run a 2560x1600 display, & it doesn't matter what kind of upscaling i could do, DVDs still look like crap.

Take even 720p though, & the difference is astounding.

I generally upscale 720p to 1440p for viewing here, & leave 1080p alone, as it looks great of course.

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: n7

Originally posted by: Davegod

What about AnyDVD? I heard that was pretty good too.

AnyDVD does decryption.

Not re-encoding [like DVD-RB + HC encoder/CCE].

DVD Shrink does decryption (though as it's old, it doesn't work on some newer DVDs), & transcoding.

And Muse, the difference between DVD & HD is massive IMO.

But it does somewhat depend on the person & display being used.

I run a 2560x1600 display, & it doesn't matter what kind of upscaling i could do, DVDs still look like crap.

Take even 720p though, & the difference is astounding.

I generally upscale 720p to 1440p for viewing here, & leave 1080p alone, as it looks great of course.

When I find that DVDShrink can't deal with a DVD, I go to DVDFabDecrypter, which always cracks the nut, at least if you have a recent version.

Does your system do better than 1080p, or is that the limit?

Is broadcast TV going to go 1080p?

I guess my next display(s) is/are going to be 1080p. I know they're in the stores now, I just haven't taken the time to check it out. I've glanced, but have to wonder a lot of the time what they are using for a signal (i.e. Costco). Alot of the time, I think they're just running broadcast or cable TV (more likely cable). I guess I should go in a decent store and get the pitch from a sales guy who knows the ropes.

My projector is native 720p, which is, of course, better than DVD quality. It's perfect for HDTV, though, and stations that broadcast in 1080i (I'm using a rooftop antenna) look exactly the same to me as those that broadcast in 720p. I guess it's because my projector does a good job of converting internally to its native res.

 

[pcslookout]

Originally posted by: n7
DVD Rebuilder.

It's always been miles better than DVD Shrink, even using the freeware encoder (HC Encoder) that's included.

Of course, getting CCE will give the best results.

DVD-RB isn't what i'd call easy per say, but with a little reading, you'll have to set up in no time.

I don't know how many hundreds of DVDs i've done, but DVD-RB is much better than Shrink.

If you can keep compression for the main movie over 80%, you'll be okay with Shrink.

But since it's a transcoder not an encoder, it really cannot do a good job with heavy compression.

You get actual re-encoding with DVD-RB, & while it will take a lot longer, it will also do a far better job.

I haven't done DVD re-encoding for a while now, but when i was doing it alot, i found it that w/ DVD-RB & CCE, i could pretty much do down to around 55% w/o much quality losss.

n7 has words of wisdom. I tried dvd rebuilder a wild back because I wanted to be able to shrink a dvd a lot but keep everything with it still being burned on a single dvd 5. Worked out quite well.

 

[pcslookout]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
depends on the size of screen you watch it back on i guess.
at this point with hd out. it doesn't matter. you are taking low res and compressing it further. its a compromised situation either way. if you really ever feel like rewatching a film in the future you'll be better off seeing the hd version.

Let me know when the films from 1980s will be released hd versions. I bet never. Some films don't need a hd treatment like some horror films. The grainy bits is what gives the film character.

 

[pcslookout]

Originally posted by: Davegod
If you hit "re-author" you can cut anything out you dont want. Since this breaks the menu's tho, just add back the main movie. Then use the start/stop button to cut off the credits (I leave about 5 seconds of credits) and any excess intro (logos etc). This will always get you the minimum amount of compression needed. If you want the menu's and only some of the objects in it, yes replace the unwanted ones with a still image.

I always use deep analysis, it doesn't take long.

65% is still low though, sounds like you have a movie that fills up both layers with few extras. DivX will be a lot better tho will also take a LOT longer and require a DivX player.

I love DivX but the only disadvantage is not everyone has a dvd player that can play Divx That is what really sucks. So if a friend ever wants to borrow a film they may not be able to watch it. I guess it should not be that big of a deal but at times it could be. The only thing is once you compress it that is it. You can't put it back to a uncompressed dvd without loosing more quality. Its a lose lose situation unless all dvd players start supporting Divx. A lot do but there is still plenty that still don't even newer ones and very expensive ones.

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: pcslookout

Originally posted by: Davegod
If you hit "re-author" you can cut anything out you dont want. Since this breaks the menu's tho, just add back the main movie. Then use the start/stop button to cut off the credits (I leave about 5 seconds of credits) and any excess intro (logos etc). This will always get you the minimum amount of compression needed. If you want the menu's and only some of the objects in it, yes replace the unwanted ones with a still image.

I always use deep analysis, it doesn't take long.

65% is still low though, sounds like you have a movie that fills up both layers with few extras. DivX will be a lot better tho will also take a LOT longer and require a DivX player.

I love DivX but the only disadvantage is not everyone has a dvd player that can play Divx That is what really sucks. So if a friend ever wants to borrow a film they may not be able to watch it. I guess it should not be that big of a deal but at times it could be. The only thing is once you compress it that is it. You can't put it back to a uncompressed dvd without loosing more quality. Its a lose lose situation unless all dvd players start supporting Divx. A lot do but there is still plenty that still don't even newer ones and very expensive ones.

Both my DVD players support DivX, even my cheap Philips DVP642. My Momitsu V880 says DivX MP4. Is that a certain flavor of DivX? I did some Googling today on Divx and came up with a bunch of divergent stuff and don't know where to go to burn this disk. One site mentioned Divx5, whatever that is ( ).

This disk has menus and really 4 titles (it's a TV show) and there's two options in DVDShrink for reauthoring, in that I can have the 4 shows together as one title or have them as 4 separate shows. And, of course, there's the extras, but I looked at them (thanks Davegod) and realized I don't need those. I can burn the 4 titles separately, and I figure I could go Next on my remote and go to the next show. Otherwise, I think I'd have to FF to get there. I think DVDShrink would burn it around 66%, which isn't great. I'd like to learn how to rip to Divx. What's the way to go to do that?

 

[pcslookout]

A disadvantage too is you can't create a dvd menu, if you really want it or like them, with most divx players they must support divx ultra which most don't yet.

 

[pcslookout]

Muse just to make sure you know DVD Rebuilder works in Windows Vista 64 bit but the encoder CCE does not at all. It really sucks. Can 't remember who but I think it was 0roo0roo that did not realize this and couldn't believe it. Made a topic about it a while back.

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: pcslookout
Muse just to make sure you know DVD Rebuilder works in Windows Vista 64 bit but the encoder CCE does not at all. It really sucks. Can 't remember who but I think it was 0roo0roo that did not realize this and couldn't believe it. Made a topic about it a while back.

I'm using XP Pro SP3. I think I'm going to try using DVD Rebuilder to create a Divx of this disk.