DVD Recorder question

[tinpanalley]

Until recently I've used a Hauppauge PVR to capture VHS tapes to my computer. My problem with this is that the PVR I have only captures 4:3. Also the quality isn't great because the crappy software makes the video a bit choppy. I have a friend who has happily transferred hours and hours of video tape to a HDD DVD recorder. She's used it for years. It also does great copies of other SD sources for better preservation on DVD or file formats. I'm looking at one that I can get the Panasonic DMR-EX75 for 15€. I know these machines are no longer produced but is that the simplest way to do my copies or is there some PC/laptop setup I can do to get these tapes archived/stored? Of course, I'm aware the recordings will only ever be as good as 480p.
Thanks!

 

[poofyhairguy]

If you like your current method, why not upgrade to a Hauppauge HD-PVR?

Seems like any method that takes prehistoric tapes and puts them on now primitive disks is like trading a dinosaur for a wooly mammoth. I would think the optimal situation is capturing the data in full res in x264.

 

[tinpanalley]

If you like your current method, why not upgrade to a Hauppauge HD-PVR?

I don't actually like the current method. That's the point. I have a WINTV-HVR 1250 which I thought was a HD PVR but apparently it's not got any HD inputs. I should also mention that I often use it to capture something from my TV DVR. I don't care if it's SD but I really hate not being able to capture 16X9.

Seems like any method that takes prehistoric tapes and puts them on now primitive disks is like trading a dinosaur for a wooly mammoth.

Well, I think this comparison is subjective. Firstly, in film production, we often burn discs a lot because it's the most faultless way of transferring data inexpensively. Secondly, primitive is irrelevant if it does what you want just fine and you're not going out of your way to do something unnecessarily harder without reason. I'd do what my friend does which is to copy things to the internal HDD and then burn to RW DVDs to transfer the video to my computer for further processing, editing, etc.

I would think the optimal situation is capturing the data in full res in x264.

Well, as of right now, the software that comes with the Hauppauge is basically useless. And I cna't find any others that are compatible. With the DVD recorder, I could rip that burned video into whatever I want. So, I'm just asking if there isn't some other way to do this if the recorder is not the way.

 

[poofyhairguy]

I'd do what my friend does which is to copy things to the internal HDD and then burn to RW DVDs to transfer the video to my computer for further processing, editing, etc.

That is kinda the issue. That DVD recorder is taking the source material and encoding it in some way so it can work on a DVD. If I have to guess its MPEG2, which the digital result is way degraded from the original quality because of encoding artifacts and the fact that a DVD can only fit medium quality video at best when its encoded MPEG2. It is not just "it can only ever be 480p," its more like " it can only be crappy 480p."

If any of your sources are interlaced, it will be even worse. No way any of those DVD recorders have decent de-interlacers built in so it will be comb effect everywhere. Optimally you capture the video directly onto a computer in a little more modern codec like h264, which means you retain more of the original source at smaller file sizes.

Well, as of right now, the software that comes with the Hauppauge is basically useless. And I cna't find any others that are compatible. With the DVD recorder, I could rip that burned video into whatever I want. So, I'm just asking if there isn't some other way to do this if the recorder is not the way.

If what you wanted as an end result was only DVDs ever, then the DVD recorder is a great option. Like, for example, you wanted to convert video for mom and the most modern playback device she has in the house is a DVD player. Then its an optimal option because she can't or won't do better.

But since what you want is simply the digital file, and not necessarily on the disk, this a completely non optimal option. It is like you telling a friend about a Youtube video by sending him a telegraph. It might be easy, but why do all this work when the result will be a fraction of what it could be? I mean, it MIGHT be less work (I would debate that when you consider you have to dump the data from the disks to get them back on a computer) but for a worse result.

Hauppauge Capture isn't that bad I don't think. Is that what you have used?

 

[tinpanalley]

Hauppauge Capture isn't that bad I don't think. Is that what you have used?

No, WinTV v7 which is their tv watching program that comes with a recording function. There is a 16X9 radio button that doesn't actually capture that way. So, letterboxed 4:3 is my only option for the DVR although it does work.
And for whatever reason, thought I DO have a good video card and plenty of RAM and I run a pretty tight system, all my video has stutter. Barely detectable but its there and it gets annoying.

All good points you mention above. I hadn't considered that. I do want to end on file, not disc. Look, it's basically for this..
1. I get an out of print VHS film on ebay or wherever, I can capture it and stop it from degrading any further. I have 1930s, 40s, and 50s films on VHS that are lost to current gen video because they're never going to get released again. Either they're trapped in legal dispute limbo, or there's simply zero interest in releasing or remastering them. Not obscure relics, but known films. That's important to me.
2. Same thing but with laserdiscs.
3. A TV documentary is on one of several history networks that I really want to record to watch again later and not get stuck having it locked in my DVR only never to be seen again when I leave that cable company. Has happened to me with countless docs that are never produced for commercial release and are never going to be aired again.

 

[poofyhairguy]

If all your video has stutter than something is being encoded wrong, maybe in the WinTV software. I will be honest, I don't have experiance with that software.

I will say though given your list, the Hauppauge HD-PVR seems like a slam dunk as it encodes the component inputs in real time using the H.264/MPEG-4 video codec and the AAC audio codec (aka modern stuff).

 

[tinpanalley]

If all your video has stutter than something is being encoded wrong, maybe in the WinTV software. I will be honest, I don't have experiance with that software.

I will say though given your list, the Hauppauge HD-PVR seems like a slam dunk as it encodes the component inputs in real time using the H.264/MPEG-4 video codec and the AAC audio codec (aka modern stuff).

It may have something to do with using that WinTV instead of that Capture program that quite frankly I didn't even know existed. Not great on marketing, these people. The card should have come with Capture, in my opinion.
Who knows maybe the stutter has to do with a driver issue. I notice that they only recently released a driver update. Shocking that they're still supporting the card. Maybe the Capture program actually does 16X9 properly. Worth a shot I think.
So you're saying I should get that other one, the HD PVR?

 

[poofyhairguy]

I think its best to try to get what you have to work, but if it won't the HD PVR is the best new investment. It does a great job.

 

[WildW]

Just wanted to chip in my two pennies on this topic. I used to do quite a bit of archiving from VHS, but it's probably been about 5 years since I last did any so I could be out of date.

The main issue I always had capturing VHS was audio sync, especially with old tapes. It seemed that whenever there was a glitch on the tape and the picture tore for a moment on the TV the capture device would stop capturing frames for a moment but keep capturing audio. I went through a number of TV cards from Hauppage and ATI, and dedicated capture cards from Pinnacle, and they all suffered from this, amongst other issues.

The best video capture device I ever had for analogue video was a Canopus ADVC 110, a box that connected to my VCR and output in digital DV format via Firewire, which I realise is something of a a dinosaur itself now - still, firewire capture requires only a cheap add-in card, no fancy drivers and is a standard format that everyone's camcorder used to output before they were replaced by smartphones. I used to capture straight into Virtualdub, zero drivers needed.

That box never once lost audio sync on the worst of my flea-market VHS tapes. It took an s-video input from my Super-VHS player and gave the best capture quality I ever got. It was semi-expensive but I got about 75% of the purchase price back when I eventually sold it on eBay. Also if you hold down the button for ten seconds it filters out Macrovision protection but shhhhhhh.

 

[tinpanalley]

In case anyone's interested, these are the AV specs of the video that I capture with the Hauppauge default software. This was a video I recently transferred... (The audio was chosen by me at 128kbps to keep it small.)

Format : MPEG-PS
File size : 3.10 GiB
Duration : 57mn 52s
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 7 671 Kbps

Video
ID : 224 (0xE0)
Format : MPEG Video
Format version : Version 2
Format profile : Main@Main
Format settings, BVOP : Yes
Format settings, Matrix : Default
Format settings, GOP : M=3, N=12
Duration : 57mn 51s
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 7 390 Kbps
Maximum bit rate : 8 500 Kbps
Width : 720 pixels
Height : 480 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 4:3
Frame rate : 29.970 fps
Standard : NTSC
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Interlaced
Scan order : Bottom Field First
Compression mode : Lossy
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.714
Time code of first frame : 00:03:29:28
Time code source : Group of pictures header
Stream size : 2.99 GiB (96%)

Audio
ID : 192 (0xC0)
Format : MPEG Audio
Format version : Version 1
Format profile : Layer 2
Duration : 57mn 52s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 128 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Compression mode : Lossy
Delay relative to video : -189ms
Stream size : 53.0 MiB (2%)

 

[poofyhairguy]

Hmmm, I wonder why its Interlaced by default.

 

[tinpanalley]

Hmmm, I wonder why its Interlaced by default.

I don't know. Let me check the settings, maybe that's something I forgot to set up.
UPDATE: Well, this was a VHS tape via S-Video. So, I guess it records what you give it and doesn't do any deinterlacing. I need a better program then, that recognises the HVR-1250