Dutch Reject EU constitution

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: The Boss

Originally posted by: Infohawk

Originally posted by: The Boss
No, I am not European, I am Turkish. I am moving to Germany on temporary assignment. I'll be there for 6 months, no more.

It sounds like you think Europeans shouldn't oppose Turkey's entry into the EU (why else would you say people should visit Turkey before opposing it?). I don't think Turks are Europeans and I doubt Europeans do either. On those grounds alone it seems silly to admit Turkey. Free trade? Sure. Political, economic and cultural union? You might as well have Guatamala enter the EU.

No, its because whether they oppose or approve Turkey's entry into the EU, they are still making an uninformed decision. In other words, neither Switzerland nor Norway are in the EU but they enjoy all the benefits that come from it. You are saying Turks are not Euroepan and I agree, but what about Cyprus, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Malta, Slovakia, Slovenia and finally Bulgaria? You think those are European? I don't think so. I have been to all except Latvia (but heard a lot about it), and none of those countries are more Euroepan than Turkey. If religion is your main criteria for a Euroepan country, sure they are, but for everything else, they're not. Either way, the EU won't last as it is right now and I am glad that they are making it more difficult for my country to join it. By the way, about Guatamala, EU is trying to adopt countries that have some sort of importance to it and certainly Turkey has (with more than 4 million Turks living in Europe right now plus all the trade relations) about a 1000 times more importance to EU than Guatamala.

Obviously Turkey is more important economically than Guatemala. That's great if we're talking about free trade or customs unions. I was speaking more about the other factors and about the EU, which has an important cultural component. Slovaks aren't ethnically cauacasian? What are they? Ethnicity and religious and cultural history is a huge part of any society. If all you really want is economic ties, you don't need the EU for that. If you want to start a Union of Secular states, sure it makes sense to consider Turkey. But the point is that this is the European Union which by definition should be for Europeans. And this isn't just about race. Even geographically Turkey is pushing it. It neighbors Iraq for crying out loud. If you start saying the EU isn't about geography or cultural tradition, it becomes meaningless, and I don't think most Europeans outside the Brits want that.

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: Forsythe

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
well its called the european union for a reason there are limits.. unless its going to be some new kind of ever expanding new age empire kinda thing.

Which is exactly what i hope it will be. I don't care about the name, they could call it whatever they want.

and europeans complain about the us being an expansionist hegomonic power ..lol europe doesn't learn.

 

[Forsythe]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: Forsythe

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
well its called the european union for a reason there are limits.. unless its going to be some new kind of ever expanding new age empire kinda thing.

Which is exactly what i hope it will be. I don't care about the name, they could call it whatever they want.

and europeans complain about the us being an expansionist hegomonic power ..lol europe doesn't learn.

It's not expanding, it's about an econo mi ccollaboration between states, that use words instead of force to negotiate. Entering it is voulentary. And it has severe economic benefits for the countries joining.

 

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: Forsythe

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: Forsythe

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
well its called the european union for a reason there are limits.. unless its going to be some new kind of ever expanding new age empire kinda thing.

Which is exactly what i hope it will be. I don't care about the name, they could call it whatever they want.

and europeans complain about the us being an expansionist hegomonic power ..lol europe doesn't learn.

It's not expanding, it's about an econo mi ccollaboration between states, that use words instead of force to negotiate. Entering it is voulentary. And it has severe economic benefits for the countries joining.

I cannot help but laugh whenever I see such naive comments.

 

[Forsythe]

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

Originally posted by: Forsythe

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: Forsythe

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
well its called the european union for a reason there are limits.. unless its going to be some new kind of ever expanding new age empire kinda thing.

Which is exactly what i hope it will be. I don't care about the name, they could call it whatever they want.

and europeans complain about the us being an expansionist hegomonic power ..lol europe doesn't learn.

It's not expanding, it's about an econo mi ccollaboration between states, that use words instead of force to negotiate. Entering it is voulentary. And it has severe economic benefits for the countries joining.

I cannot help but laugh whenever I see such naive comments.

Aim at the stars.

What do you mean?

 

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: Forsythe

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

Originally posted by: Forsythe

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: Forsythe

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
well its called the european union for a reason there are limits.. unless its going to be some new kind of ever expanding new age empire kinda thing.

Which is exactly what i hope it will be. I don't care about the name, they could call it whatever they want.

and europeans complain about the us being an expansionist hegomonic power ..lol europe doesn't learn.

It's not expanding, it's about an econo mi ccollaboration between states, that use words instead of force to negotiate. Entering it is voulentary. And it has severe economic benefits for the countries joining.

I cannot help but laugh whenever I see such naive comments.

Aim at the stars.

What do you mean?

It's quite simple yet ironic in conjunction with your first statement. The EU (which has higher aspirations than just an economic collaboration) and almost any other entity would like to have power and should it have such power it would not prance around ineffectively.

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: Forsythe

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
well its called the european union for a reason there are limits.. unless its going to be some new kind of ever expanding new age empire kinda thing.

Which is exactly what i hope it will be. I don't care about the name, they could call it whatever they want.

That's what I fear - return of European-style power = slavery, colonialism, genocide, etc.

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: Forsythe

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
well its called the european union for a reason there are limits.. unless its going to be some new kind of ever expanding new age empire kinda thing.

Which is exactly what i hope it will be. I don't care about the name, they could call it whatever they want.

That's what I fear - return of European-style power = slavery, colonialism, genocide, etc.

Modern examples of this behaviour?
Because if you want to dive into history, the US has a track record of those as well.

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: Forsythe

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
well its called the european union for a reason there are limits.. unless its going to be some new kind of ever expanding new age empire kinda thing.

Which is exactly what i hope it will be. I don't care about the name, they could call it whatever they want.

That's what I fear - return of European-style power = slavery, colonialism, genocide, etc.

Modern examples of this behaviour?
Because if you want to dive into history, the US has a track record of those as well.

Sure it does, but nobody can rival the European era of power. I consider wanting it back to be a very dangerous thing.

Slavery - many European nations continued to practice slavery in the 20th century despite "abolishing" it. Examples: UK, France, Belgium, Germany, etc.

Colonialism - doesn't even need to be explained!

Genocide - France in Rwanda, colonialism, etc.