Well it looks bad for the EU. Not that I'm sad. I didn't exactly like the EU constitution. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050601/ap_...;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl
Dutch Reject EU constitution
- Thread starter User1001
- Start date
Let's make it clear it's not like Europe is exploding (as some neocons might wish). It's just not going to move forward in a certain way at the moment.
I agree with you there. Europe will stable no matter the state of the constitution. Its clear though that constitution is something that's going to take longer then some hoped for.
The whole process I believe took around 8 years. But I believe the actual sit down and write the thing took about a month or two and it was a page or two.
I heard the EU's constitution is a monument to modern day govt at around 700 pages?
If that is true good god help them.
Stunt
Diamond Member
- Jul 17, 2002
- 9,717
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CoW, I think that is more because the EU has brought in too many large poor countries and all the labour intensive jobs are moving to these states as they are still part of the EU; paying little to no tarriffs and using the Euro as currency. The richer countries have a lot to lose bringing high population, poor countries into the fold.
Turkey has 70m people and is in direct contact with syria and iraq. With any sort of agression in this unstable region, the EU would undoubtedly have to get involved. Most see turkey as a middle eastern nation than a european state. EU is 450m, this means in the union with 24 states, Turkey would amount to 16% of the total population.
Big issue imo. It'd be like the US cosidering bringing TWO Mexico Cities into the US as a State. Immense poverty (gdp per cap in Mex is $9600, Turkey is $7400) and population (Mex City is 22m ppl, 7% of US population - hence the times two)
Just imagine that, two Mexico Cities joining the US; how many americans do you see ssupporting that...and would you consider that racist?
Not that this logic is justified, but i can see where they could be coming from on the matter.
Turkey has 70m people and is in direct contact with syria and iraq. With any sort of agression in this unstable region, the EU would undoubtedly have to get involved. Most see turkey as a middle eastern nation than a european state. EU is 450m, this means in the union with 24 states, Turkey would amount to 16% of the total population.
Big issue imo. It'd be like the US cosidering bringing TWO Mexico Cities into the US as a State. Immense poverty (gdp per cap in Mex is $9600, Turkey is $7400) and population (Mex City is 22m ppl, 7% of US population - hence the times two)
Just imagine that, two Mexico Cities joining the US; how many americans do you see ssupporting that...and would you consider that racist?
Not that this logic is justified, but i can see where they could be coming from on the matter.
biostud
Lifer
- Feb 27, 2003
- 19,936
- 7,041
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The really stupid thing is that the constitution would be more democratic than the old one, and would make EU more well functioning.
....uhm and what would their suggestion be?
The constition is what 25 democratic countries could agree on. This means that the representives electied by the people represented their interests.
The problem is that some countries wanted a social paragraph in the constitution, while other prefer to manage that by themself.
And so on with lots of other area's. So it all have to be what they can agree on, and this was what it turned out to be.
And while it's very long, a 8 pages constitution would be as usefull as a book full of blank pages. This constituion has to make a model of in which area's EU should work together and how, how to leave EU, how to vote, how to manage the euro, etc.
All countries have their own constitution which is more or less used in the same way as the american, so having one of these on European level would be useless and impossible, unless the contries abolished their own constitutions, which they're not going to do as EU are individual states working together, not one country.
....uhm and what would their suggestion be?
The constition is what 25 democratic countries could agree on. This means that the representives electied by the people represented their interests.
The problem is that some countries wanted a social paragraph in the constitution, while other prefer to manage that by themself.
And so on with lots of other area's. So it all have to be what they can agree on, and this was what it turned out to be.
And while it's very long, a 8 pages constitution would be as usefull as a book full of blank pages. This constituion has to make a model of in which area's EU should work together and how, how to leave EU, how to vote, how to manage the euro, etc.
All countries have their own constitution which is more or less used in the same way as the american, so having one of these on European level would be useless and impossible, unless the contries abolished their own constitutions, which they're not going to do as EU are individual states working together, not one country.
They're just joining the EU, not joining another country.
I've said that before - the poverty of Turkey is a valid reason for not wanting them in the EU. However, the EU is going to have a major demographic problem, and Turkey's population could be the cure.
Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
its also a valid reason that they aren't really part of europe. like russia and china
Not valid, membership of europe is not based on the geographical placement of a country.
Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
well its called the european union for a reason
Which is exactly what i hope it will be. I don't care about the name, they could call it whatever they want.
Turkish
Lifer
- May 26, 2003
- 15,547
- 1
- 81
As a 21 year-old Turk, I sincerely hope that my country never joins the European Union. True, my country has its own problems: poverty, religious fundamentalists, large population, political instability, etc., but it also has so many great assets: strategically important location (EU on the west, Russia on Northeast, Middle East on Southeast), large mainland coast (good for transporting goods, military power, etc.), agricultural wealth (much more than any country in the EU, we are not dependent on outside resources), control of the Bosphorus (fastest gateway to Russia), diverse ethnic groups, etc. I don't want any European country to enjoy any of these assets. It's also a sad fact that the majority of the EU population believe that Turkey is what they see in the EU land everyday. Those Turkish immigrants are hardly a representative of the modern day Turkey. I hope we never get in the EU but I encourage every EU citizen to visit Turkey before opposing to its membership in the EU.
Edit: If you are going to ask me about Germany, see my next post.
Edit: If you are going to ask me about Germany, see my next post.
It sounds like you think Europeans shouldn't oppose Turkey's entry into the EU (why else would you say people should visit Turkey before opposing it?). I don't think Turks are Europeans and I doubt Europeans do either. On those grounds alone it seems silly to admit Turkey. Free trade? Sure. Political, economic and cultural union? You might as well have Guatamala enter the EU.
Turkish
Lifer
- May 26, 2003
- 15,547
- 1
- 81
No, its because whether they oppose or approve Turkey's entry into the EU, they are still making an uninformed decision. In other words, neither Switzerland nor Norway are in the EU but they enjoy all the benefits that come from it. You are saying Turks are not Euroepan and I agree, but what about Cyprus, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Malta, Slovakia, Slovenia and finally Bulgaria? You think those are European? I don't think so. I have been to all except Latvia (but heard a lot about it), and none of those countries are more Euroepan than Turkey. If religion is your main criteria for a Euroepan country, sure they are, but for everything else, they're not. Either way, the EU won't last as it is right now and I am glad that they are making it more difficult for my country to join it. By the way, about Guatamala, EU is trying to adopt countries that have some sort of importance to it and certainly Turkey has (with more than 4 million Turks living in Europe right now plus all the trade relations) about a 1000 times more importance to EU than Guatamala.
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