During World War 2, what country would you have rather be a citizen of?

[Schadenfroh]

assuming the possiblilty of being drafted?

 

[Kelvrick]

German.

EDIT: Wait, I'm asian. Russian. Wait. Damnit!

 

[Barnaby W. Füi]

I don't know the numbers off the top of my head, but Russia lost many more people, so it would seem to make sense to choose Germany, if self-preservation is the goal.

in this hypothetical situation, are you a jew, or disabled, or anything else that would cause you to be tossed into a nazi concentration camp?

 

[FleshLight]

German because Tiger > T30whatever > Sherman

 

[Colt45]

SSSR

 

[GTaudiophile]

C: Neither!

The Nazi invasion of Stalingrad was horrific for the Soviets, but the Soviet invastion of East Prussia and Berlin was equally horrific. More rape of women (and children) than anyone can imagine.

Want the details? Read this!

 

[Amused]

My first choice would be neither.

But if I had to pick, it would be German. Why? Because if I DID survive the war, I would do everything I could to make it over to the western side after the war. Had I been drafted, I would have done anything I could to have been captured by the west.

Life for Russians after the war was nearly as miserable as it was during the war. Stalin started more purges because he figured anyone who had contact with westerners had their minds washed and were a danger to him.

 

[ThePresence]

USSR, no question. I'm Jewish.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: ThePresence
USSR, no question. I'm Jewish.

Hard choice for you. The Russians weren't much nicer to the Jews than the Germans.

 

[Taggart]

If you pick Germany then you are saying you want to be a Nazi, and if you pick Russian then you are essentially killing yourself since Stalin killed literally EVERY citizen in his country.

This is like the 'How would you prefer to die?" thread!

 

[ThePresence]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: ThePresence
USSR, no question. I'm Jewish.

Hard choice for you. The Russians weren't much nicer to the Jews than the Germans.

Yes, that's true. But given the choice between the two, I'd have to pick the USSR.

 

[adlep]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: ThePresence
USSR, no question. I'm Jewish.

Hard choice for you. The Russians weren't much nicer to the Jews than the Germans.

You are confusing some Ukrainians with Russians.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Taggart
If you pick Germany then you are saying you want to be a Nazi, and if you pick Russian then you are essentially killing yourself since Stalin killed literally EVERY citizen in his country.

This is like the 'How would you prefer to die?" thread!

Well, at least the Germans did many positive things after the war and, with our help, built a great country.

The prospects for a Russian after the war were dim. Especially if they had ANY contact with westerners.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: adlep

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: ThePresence
USSR, no question. I'm Jewish.

Hard choice for you. The Russians weren't much nicer to the Jews than the Germans.

This is very ignorant statement to say.
You are confusing some Ukrainians with Russians.

Yeah, OK. Stalin and the USSR in general loved Jews. :roll:

Why was there a mass migration of Russian Jews to Israel?

Read this:

http://www.wordiq.com/definition/History_of_the_Jews_in_Russia_and_Soviet_Union

And this:

http://www.jewishgates.com/file.asp?File_ID=159

 

[adlep]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: adlep

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: ThePresence
USSR, no question. I'm Jewish.

Hard choice for you. The Russians weren't much nicer to the Jews than the Germans.

This is very ignorant statement to say.
You are confusing some Ukrainians with Russians.

Yeah, OK. Stalin and the USSR in general loved Jews. :roll:

Why was there a mass migration of Russian Jews to Israel?

Read this:

http://www.wordiq.com/definition/History_of_the_Jews_in_Russia_and_Soviet_Union

From your link:

"The Bolshevik Revolution and the curtailment of the Pogroms
One of Lenin's first state addresses was to mark the "emancipation of Jews" from Tsarism. Lenin delivered a state address "on the pogrom slandering of the Jews" on a gramophone disc following the October Revolution. It was not carried by any Russian newspaper, or widely heard; only a few thousand Russians had gramophones. Lenin formally issued a proclamation granting freedom to worship to the Russian proletariat and officially abolished the Pale of Settlement.

Such actions, along with extensive Jewish participation among the Bolsheviks, plagued the Communists during the Russian Civil War against the Whites with a reputation of being "a gang of marauding Jews"; Jews were a plurality ethnicity in the Communist Central Committee, which had a non-Russian majority.

The urbanization and industrialization of the USSR during the Five Year Plans probably contributed to liberalizing social attitudes, likely curbing anti-Semitism. Peasants, once 80% of the population prior to Stalinist-era heavy industrialization, often never knew Jews personally. However, due to forced industrialization and urbanization under Stalin, large segments of the country's Jewish population also moved from small towns or villages to large cities along with non-Jews. With more Soviets having the opportunity to know Jews intimately or become fairly acquainted with Jews, many were perhaps more inclined to see through perceiving Jews as Tsarist-era abstractions, like the parasitic "Christ-killer."

See article Yevsektsiya on some additional aspects of Bolshevik policy with respect to Jews and Jewish organizations.

In 1936 Pravda, the party's newspaper and main propaganda organ, even printed a beneficial explanation of the vile nature of anti-Semitism. It stated that "national and racial chauvinism is a survival of the barbarous practices of the cannibalistic period... it served the exploiters... to protect capitalism from the attack of the working class; anti-Semitism, a phenomenon profoundly hostile to the Soviet Union, is repressed in the USSR."

Jews were considered complete citizens, but they weren't allowed to be different from other Soviets.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: adlep

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: adlep

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: ThePresence
USSR, no question. I'm Jewish.

Hard choice for you. The Russians weren't much nicer to the Jews than the Germans.

This is very ignorant statement to say.
You are confusing some Ukrainians with Russians.

Yeah, OK. Stalin and the USSR in general loved Jews. :roll:

Why was there a mass migration of Russian Jews to Israel?

Read this:

http://www.wordiq.com/definition/History_of_the_Jews_in_Russia_and_Soviet_Union

From your link:

"The Bolshevik Revolution and the curtailment of the Pogroms
One of Lenin's first state addresses was to mark the "emancipation of Jews" from Tsarism. Lenin delivered a state address "on the pogrom slandering of the Jews" on a gramophone disc following the October Revolution. It was not carried by any Russian newspaper, or widely heard; only a few thousand Russians had gramophones. Lenin formally issued a proclamation granting freedom to worship to the Russian proletariat and officially abolished the Pale of Settlement.

Such actions, along with extensive Jewish participation among the Bolsheviks, plagued the Communists during the Russian Civil War against the Whites with a reputation of being "a gang of marauding Jews"; Jews were a plurality ethnicity in the Communist Central Committee, which had a non-Russian majority.

The urbanization and industrialization of the USSR during the Five Year Plans probably contributed to liberalizing social attitudes, likely curbing anti-Semitism. Peasants, once 80% of the population prior to Stalinist-era heavy industrialization, often never knew Jews personally. However, due to forced industrialization and urbanization under Stalin, large segments of the country's Jewish population also moved from small towns or villages to large cities along with non-Jews. With more Soviets having the opportunity to know Jews intimately or become fairly acquainted with Jews, many were perhaps more inclined to see through perceiving Jews as Tsarist-era abstractions, like the parasitic "Christ-killer."

See article Yevsektsiya on some additional aspects of Bolshevik policy with respect to Jews and Jewish organizations.

In 1936 Pravda, the party's newspaper and main propaganda organ, even printed a beneficial explanation of the vile nature of anti-Semitism. It stated that "national and racial chauvinism is a survival of the barbarous practices of the cannibalistic period... it served the exploiters... to protect capitalism from the attack of the working class; anti-Semitism, a phenomenon profoundly hostile to the Soviet Union, is repressed in the USSR."

LOL, read about the age of Stalin. Yes, the Jews were at the forefront of the Bolshevik revolution. And the Stalin stabbed them in the back. Many of his purges focused on Jews.

Maybe I should have pointed out what era you should have read about?

 

[GoingUp]

Germany.

 

[hysperion]

my choice would be germany, but if i had been on their side the whole war coulda ended differently....ya i'm that good....

 

[tec699]

My mom was born in France. She was too young to remember the German invansion but her sister and brother remember it all too well. Her sister remembers the Germans breaking down their door in the middle of the night because they were looking for jews. The Germans were actually pretty friendly to the French.

 

[adlep]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: adlep

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: adlep

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: ThePresence
USSR, no question. I'm Jewish.

Hard choice for you. The Russians weren't much nicer to the Jews than the Germans.

This is very ignorant statement to say.
You are confusing some Ukrainians with Russians.

Yeah, OK. Stalin and the USSR in general loved Jews. :roll:

Why was there a mass migration of Russian Jews to Israel?

Read this:

http://www.wordiq.com/definition/History_of_the_Jews_in_Russia_and_Soviet_Union

From your link:

"The Bolshevik Revolution and the curtailment of the Pogroms
One of Lenin's first state addresses was to mark the "emancipation of Jews" from Tsarism. Lenin delivered a state address "on the pogrom slandering of the Jews" on a gramophone disc following the October Revolution. It was not carried by any Russian newspaper, or widely heard; only a few thousand Russians had gramophones. Lenin formally issued a proclamation granting freedom to worship to the Russian proletariat and officially abolished the Pale of Settlement.

Such actions, along with extensive Jewish participation among the Bolsheviks, plagued the Communists during the Russian Civil War against the Whites with a reputation of being "a gang of marauding Jews"; Jews were a plurality ethnicity in the Communist Central Committee, which had a non-Russian majority.

The urbanization and industrialization of the USSR during the Five Year Plans probably contributed to liberalizing social attitudes, likely curbing anti-Semitism. Peasants, once 80% of the population prior to Stalinist-era heavy industrialization, often never knew Jews personally. However, due to forced industrialization and urbanization under Stalin, large segments of the country's Jewish population also moved from small towns or villages to large cities along with non-Jews. With more Soviets having the opportunity to know Jews intimately or become fairly acquainted with Jews, many were perhaps more inclined to see through perceiving Jews as Tsarist-era abstractions, like the parasitic "Christ-killer."

See article Yevsektsiya on some additional aspects of Bolshevik policy with respect to Jews and Jewish organizations.

In 1936 Pravda, the party's newspaper and main propaganda organ, even printed a beneficial explanation of the vile nature of anti-Semitism. It stated that "national and racial chauvinism is a survival of the barbarous practices of the cannibalistic period... it served the exploiters... to protect capitalism from the attack of the working class; anti-Semitism, a phenomenon profoundly hostile to the Soviet Union, is repressed in the USSR."

LOL, read about the age of Stalin. Yes, the Jews were at the forefront of the Bolshevik revolution. And the Stalin stabbed them in the back. Many of his purges focused on Jews.

Maybe I should have pointed out what era you should have read about?

Lets face it, the Jews had it from almost every european nation on the planet. Starting from the Roman times, the middle-aged Spain, France, the 18-19th century Poland and Russia, the Nazi period in the 20th century all the way through today, where the nation of Israel is absolutely hated by many Muslims.
What is important to remember is the fact that the Jews were harrassed in the USSR, but they were not harrassed more diferently from other Soviet miniorites, and at least they would not be killed on the spot while in USSR. Compare that with the instant death out of a German hands...

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: adlep


Lets face it, the Jews had it from almos every european nation on the planet. Starting from the Roman times, through the middle-aged Spain, France, throught the 18-19th century Poland and Russia, the Nazi period in the 20th century all the way through today, where the nation of Israel is absolutely hated by many Muslims.
What is important to remember is the fact that the Jews were harrassed in the USSR, but they were not harrassed more diferently from other Soviet miniorites, and at least they would not be killed on the spot while in USSR. Compare that with the instant death out of a German hands...

Read my second link. Many Jews were rounded up and sent to Gulags.

And for a lot of Jews captured by the Germans, the death was not instant. It was as slow and painful as it was in a Soviet Gulag.

Meanwhile, Soviets were more than happy to help the Germans round up Jews during the war. In fact, there were pogroms FAR from occupied zones.

Yes, Jews faced anti-semitism all over Europe. But to say it was no worse in the USSR is to deny reality. No other European country has had a mass exodous of Jews post WWII like the USSR did.

Read this for a more focused look at how Jews suffered in the USSR:

http://www.jewishgates.com/file.asp?File_ID=159

 

[K1052]

Germany.

I'd do whatever it takes to flee Soviet controlled territory.

 

[adlep]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: adlep


Lets face it, the Jews had it from almos every european nation on the planet. Starting from the Roman times, through the middle-aged Spain, France, throught the 18-19th century Poland and Russia, the Nazi period in the 20th century all the way through today, where the nation of Israel is absolutely hated by many Muslims.
What is important to remember is the fact that the Jews were harrassed in the USSR, but they were not harrassed more diferently from other Soviet miniorites, and at least they would not be killed on the spot while in USSR. Compare that with the instant death out of a German hands...

Read my second link. Many Jews were rounded up and sent to Gulags.

And for a lot of Jews captured by the Germans, the death was not instant. It was as slow and painful as it was in a Soviet Gulag.

Meanwhile, Soviets were more than happy to help the Germans round up Jews during the war. In fact, there were pogroms FAR from occupied zones.

Yes, Jews faced anti-semitism all over Europe. But to say it was no worse in the USSR is to deny reality. No other European country has had a mass exodous of Jews post WWII like the USSR did.

Not true..

Many Jews were rounded up and sent to Gulags.

Listen, everybody had it "equal" in the USSR. Yes, the Jews were sent to gulags, but most of the people in the gulags were....Russians themeselves, so your statement does not mean anything.
Many Poles were rounded up and sent to Gulags.
Many Ukrainians were rounded up and sent to Gulags.
Many Russians were rounded up and sent to Gulags.
Many Tatars were rounded up and sent to Gulags.
etc, etc...
The Soviet empire was evil, but the eviless itself was not skewed toward any miniority, it was skewed toward the society as a whole..

And for a lot of Jews captured by the Germans, the death was not instant. It was as slow and painful as it was in a Soviet Gulag.

No clue whatsoever. :disgust:
Gulag was bad, but Aushwitz with all of the gas chambers and mass murder can not be compared.
Slow and painful?
Slow and painfull as a bullet...
Graphic link, but you Amused take a closer look
Listen, bot systems were bad, but I would rather take my chance in the gulag than in the German concentration camp and so would you.

Meanwhile, Soviets were more than happy to help the Germans round up Jews during the war. In fact, there were pogroms FAR from occupied zones.

Pogroms were not happening in the Soviet (GRU, KGB influenced) controlled zones

No other European country has had a mass exodous of Jews post WWII like the USSR did.

I would leave too, not because of the prosecussion, but because the fact that the Israel is a MUCH better state to live in than poor ex Soviet Union states.

 

[Ilmater]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: adlep


Lets face it, the Jews had it from almos every european nation on the planet. Starting from the Roman times, through the middle-aged Spain, France, throught the 18-19th century Poland and Russia, the Nazi period in the 20th century all the way through today, where the nation of Israel is absolutely hated by many Muslims.
What is important to remember is the fact that the Jews were harrassed in the USSR, but they were not harrassed more diferently from other Soviet miniorites, and at least they would not be killed on the spot while in USSR. Compare that with the instant death out of a German hands...

Read my second link. Many Jews were rounded up and sent to Gulags.

And for a lot of Jews captured by the Germans, the death was not instant. It was as slow and painful as it was in a Soviet Gulag.

Meanwhile, Soviets were more than happy to help the Germans round up Jews during the war. In fact, there were pogroms FAR from occupied zones.

Yes, Jews faced anti-semitism all over Europe. But to say it was no worse in the USSR is to deny reality. No other European country has had a mass exodous of Jews post WWII like the USSR did.

Read this for a more focused look at how Jews suffered in the USSR:

http://www.jewishgates.com/file.asp?File_ID=159

Thank you for educating these ignorant people (no offense all, I mean you're ignorant to the history, not stupid in general).

Yes, if you lived in Germany, you could have always fled the country and moved somewhere else in Europe. For Russians, there was Russia or Eastern Europe, which was Russian soon enough. It's kind of hard to get out of that. There are just a lot of factors to take into consideration, and hindsight... well... you know. But it depends on my religion, my physical place in the country.

It's almost a toss-up, but I would probably choose Germany, especially if I was Jewish. Better to barely survive or die ove rthe course of a few years than to be stuck in a gulag for years and years just barely surviving. Death would be a gift at that point.

 

[ThePresence]

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