During the State of the Union address, Bush harped on "Middle East Oil Imports".......

[Hummin]

Says he wants to cut 75% of our Middle East oil imports by developing new fuel technologies. Nice platitudes.........and I agree we must cut our use of fossil fuels, but by focusing on Middle Eastern oil imports, he completely ignored our real import sources.

If you don't realize it, Middle Eastern/Persian Gulf (notice this is not OPEC....since OPEC does include Venezuela, Nigera, and other non-Persian Gulf sources) oil only accounts for roughly 11% or so of our oil consumption and less than 20% of our oil imports.

So who are some of our largest import sources? Easy........Canada and Mexico. Admittedly, Saudi Arabia and Venezuela do supply a lot of oil to us, but Canada (#1) and Mexico (#4) are heavy exporters to us, too.

So, Bush stirs the pot with the catch-phrase of Middle East oil and expects everyone to fly into a tizzy beause of the implied associations with terrorism..........a piece that was put out just before the oil tirade.

I guess Bush still expects everyone to believe we import over half our oil from Saudi Arabia and the Persian Gulf area.

So to imply our dependence on foreign oil is all from the MIddle East is a little off-target or misleading.

(Current Energy Department figures put Middle East/Persian Gulf oil imports at 11.2% of all supplied domestic oil in the latest figures I can find............Jan-Oct 2005)

Figures taken from here.

 

[Aimster]

Bush probably believes in everything he says

He's not an intelligent man

If he didn't have people helping him in his daily life, I am pretty sure he would have fallen for several Nigeran scams by now.

 

[techs]

Originally posted by: Aimster
Bush probably believes in everything he says

He's not an intelligent man

If he didn't have people helping him in his daily life, I am pretty sure he would have fallen for several Nigeran scams by now.

ROFLMAO!!!

 

[smack Down]

Because that oil is going to china so Bush can say lets cut it by 75% knowing that he will make his goal.

 

[jrenz]

Are Mexico and Canada very volatile regions of the world at the moment? Heck, with all the legislation and policies in the recent decade, I would go so far as to state that Mexico and Canada are foreign countries by definition only (to some extent, of course). Reducing our dependency, whatever percent that may be, on Middle Eastern oil, should be a greater short-term goal than reducing our dependency on Mexican or Canadian oil, would you not agree?

 

[Strk]

Originally posted by: jrenz
Are Mexico and Canada very volatile regions of the world at the moment? Heck, with all the legislation and policies in the recent decade, I would go so far as to state that Mexico and Canada are foreign countries by definition only (to some extent, of course). Reducing our dependency, whatever percent that may be, on Middle Eastern oil, should be a greater short-term goal than reducing our dependency on Mexican or Canadian oil, would you not agree?

Nigeria and Angola are pretty bad. Algeria is hardly a beacon of freedom either. Venezuela is also sliding very quickly into an authoritarian government that, while not volatile, does put us in a bit of a bind since Chavez isn't particularly fond of this administration.

 

[jrenz]

Originally posted by: Strk

Originally posted by: jrenz
Are Mexico and Canada very volatile regions of the world at the moment? Heck, with all the legislation and policies in the recent decade, I would go so far as to state that Mexico and Canada are foreign countries by definition only (to some extent, of course). Reducing our dependency, whatever percent that may be, on Middle Eastern oil, should be a greater short-term goal than reducing our dependency on Mexican or Canadian oil, would you not agree?

Nigeria and Angola are pretty bad. Algeria is hardly a beacon of freedom either. Venezuela is also sliding very quickly into an authoritarian government that, while not volatile, does put us in a bit of a bind since Chavez isn't particularly fond of this administration.

Would it have been more acceptable had the President listed off each of these regions? While these areas are unstable, they are far from being as volatile and instable as the middle east.

I agree that we should work to free ourselves from oil dependency, period, but we're just arguing semantics at this point.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Aimster
Bush probably believes in everything he says

He's not an intelligent man

If he didn't have people helping him in his daily life, I am pretty sure he would have fallen for several Nigeran scams by now.

ROFL!!

 

[Strk]

Originally posted by: jrenz

Originally posted by: Strk

Originally posted by: jrenz
Are Mexico and Canada very volatile regions of the world at the moment? Heck, with all the legislation and policies in the recent decade, I would go so far as to state that Mexico and Canada are foreign countries by definition only (to some extent, of course). Reducing our dependency, whatever percent that may be, on Middle Eastern oil, should be a greater short-term goal than reducing our dependency on Mexican or Canadian oil, would you not agree?

Nigeria and Angola are pretty bad. Algeria is hardly a beacon of freedom either. Venezuela is also sliding very quickly into an authoritarian government that, while not volatile, does put us in a bit of a bind since Chavez isn't particularly fond of this administration.

Would it have been more acceptable had the President listed off each of these regions? While these areas are unstable, they are far from being as volatile and instable as the middle east.

I agree that we should work to free ourselves from oil dependency, period, but we're just arguing semantics at this point.

Why not just say Opec? Two out of the three I mentioned are members of it.

And stability? The civil war in Nigeria was not that long ago In addition, there are constant problems with regional stability in Nigeria. As horrible a place as Saudi Arabia is, it's a lot more stable and reliable than Nigeria for oil. Nigeria rarely has a stable government, as it frequently changes hands from the military to civilian. You have a country of 130 million with over 250 ethnic groups and none of them hold a majority. It is probably one of the least stable countries we get our oil from.

 

[arsbanned]

Pretty much. Bush displays an embarrassing misapprehension of facts in general.

 

[Bitek]

I am no fan of Bush, but at least he is talking about reducing oil dependency and persuing alt energy sources (although his goals are more modest than they first appear.)

This is nothing but a good thing; if the biggest pro-oil pro-big business Texas oil-man can be talking about reducing oil dependence, than this advances the dialogue for everyone.

Its funny as you also see many of the big oil companies also running a similar message, Shell and BP in particular. The BP's too specify reducing MidEast oil,so basically the message everyone is saying is "F the A-rabs"

The Left would be best served by building on Bush's platform, holding him to it and pushing more even greater goals (like raising CAFE standards, more research $, promoting hybrids etc etc.)

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

How about we spend less time talking about these ideas:

hydrogen fuel cells: two decades
hydrogen infrastructure: three decades
economical ethanol: one decade

And more time DOING these ideas:
improve fleet fuel economy using CURRENT technology
subsidize the many fuel efficient vehicles that are already available
punishment manufacturers with vehicles that don't meet CAFE in real world driving
increase subsidies to mass transit
increase highway use fees

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Originally posted by: Hafen
I am no fan of Bush, but at least he is talking about reducing oil dependency and persuing alt energy sources (although his goals are more modest than they first appear.)

This is nothing but a good thing; if the biggest pro-oil pro-big business Texas oil-man can be talking about reducing oil dependence, than this advances the dialogue for everyone.

Its funny as you also see many of the big oil companies also running a similar message, Shell and BP in particular. The BP's too specify reducing MidEast oil,so basically the message everyone is saying is "F the A-rabs"

The Left would be best served by building on Bush's platform, holding him to it and pushing more even greater goals (like raising CAFE standards, more research $, promoting hybrids etc etc.)

Unless of course it is just shameless pandering. Where are the Tiger's teeth when it comes to Oil companies taking in huge profits at the same time gas prices are high at the pump? Making empty promises is the bread&butter of a Politician. "Read my lips: No new taxes!"

 

[Strk]

Ethanol isn't economical if they insist on using corn and subsidizing the hell out of it.

 

[Darkhawk28]

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER

Originally posted by: Hafen
I am no fan of Bush, but at least he is talking about reducing oil dependency and persuing alt energy sources (although his goals are more modest than they first appear.)

This is nothing but a good thing; if the biggest pro-oil pro-big business Texas oil-man can be talking about reducing oil dependence, than this advances the dialogue for everyone.

Its funny as you also see many of the big oil companies also running a similar message, Shell and BP in particular. The BP's too specify reducing MidEast oil,so basically the message everyone is saying is "F the A-rabs"

The Left would be best served by building on Bush's platform, holding him to it and pushing more even greater goals (like raising CAFE standards, more research $, promoting hybrids etc etc.)

Unless of course it is just shameless pandering. Where are the Tiger's teeth when it comes to Oil companies taking in huge profits at the same time gas prices are high at the pump? Making empty promises is the bread&butter of a Politician. "Read my lips: No new taxes!"

GHWB actually told the truth when he said "Read my lips: No new taxes!"

There were no NEW taxes, he just raised the old ones. :laugh:

 

[TheSlamma]

Pitty he didn't explain the tax breaks for the oil companies and how you can get a bigger Tax break as a business buying an H2 then you can buying a hybrid.


Actions speak much louder then words... anyone who believed anything he said about the oil is a complete laydown.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
GHWB actually told the truth when he said "Read my lips: No new taxes!"

There were no NEW taxes, he just raised the old ones. :laugh:

That made me chuckle.

I'm not singling out the Bush clan though, all politicians do it. Telling the people what they want hear is easy. Making good on it, rarely so. More oft than not I believe they have no intention of doing so to begin with. I just didn't derive much from the SOTU, other than that G.W. was trying to put sunshine up my butt. Optimism, determination to succeed, keeping our word, they all sound great. My problem is that our word was given based on smoke and mirrors, We are asked to be optimistic about something we should never have been in a position to be pessimistic about, and we should have been determined to catch OBL all this time, not Saddam.

My goodness, He flip flops on OBL as bad as Kerry ever has on something. But hypocracy is another par for the course political tactic used by all of them.

 

[catnap1972]

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
How about we spend less time talking about these ideas:

hydrogen fuel cells: two decades
hydrogen infrastructure: three decades
economical ethanol: one decade

And more time DOING these ideas:
improve fleet fuel economy using CURRENT technology
subsidize the many fuel efficient vehicles that are already available
punishment manufacturers with vehicles that don't meet CAFE in real world driving
increase subsidies to mass transit
increase highway use fees

Why do you hate America?

Everything Bush proposed is empty rubbish (as usual). When somebody finally cuts the ExxonMobil CEO's marionette strings from Bush's mouth, then his words "might" have some meaning.

 

[Darkhawk28]

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
GHWB actually told the truth when he said "Read my lips: No new taxes!"

There were no NEW taxes, he just raised the old ones. :laugh:

That made me chuckle.

I'm not singling out the Bush clan though, all politicians do it. Telling the people what they want hear is easy. Making good on it, rarely so. More oft than not I believe they have no intention of doing so to begin with. I just didn't derive much from the SOTU, other than that G.W. was trying to put sunshine up my butt. Optimism, determination to succeed, keeping our word, they all sound great. My problem is that our word was given based on smoke and mirrors, We are asked to be optimistic about something we should never have been in a position to be pessimistic about, and we should have been determined to catch OBL all this time, not Saddam.

My goodness, He flip flops on OBL as bad as Kerry ever has on something. But hypocracy is another par for the course political tactic used by all of them.

You're absolutely right. Remember the one candidate that actually admitted to having to raise taxes across the board? (Hint: Mondale)

 

[zephyrprime]

Even if we imported 0% of our oil from the middle east, we would still be susceptible to the volatility of middle east. Oil is a global market. If the middle east cuts production, oil from Canada, Mexico, Venezuela and elsewhere will rise to a price just as high as whatever the price is in Saudi Arabia.

Of course, I expect bush to do nothing about our foreign oil dependence just like he did nothing to relieve aids in Africa.

 

[jrenz]

Originally posted by: zephyrprime
Even if we imported 0% of our oil from the middle east, we would still be susceptible to the volatility of middle east. Oil is a global market. If the middle east cuts production, oil from Canada, Mexico, Venezuela and elsewhere will rise to a price just as high as whatever the price is in Saudi Arabia.

Of course, I expect bush to do nothing about our foreign oil dependence just like he did nothing to relieve aids in Africa.

He promoted abstinence programs and AIDS education. Short of coming up with a cure, what else do you suggest we do?

 

[catnap1972]

Originally posted by: zephyrprime
Even if we imported 0% of our oil from the middle east, we would still be susceptible to the volatility of middle east. Oil is a global market. If the middle east cuts production, oil from Canada, Mexico, Venezuela and elsewhere will rise to a price just as high as whatever the price is in Saudi Arabia.

QFT

Too bad it's lost on the "dittoheads"

 

[Strk]

Originally posted by: jrenz

Originally posted by: zephyrprime
Even if we imported 0% of our oil from the middle east, we would still be susceptible to the volatility of middle east. Oil is a global market. If the middle east cuts production, oil from Canada, Mexico, Venezuela and elsewhere will rise to a price just as high as whatever the price is in Saudi Arabia.

Of course, I expect bush to do nothing about our foreign oil dependence just like he did nothing to relieve aids in Africa.

He promoted abstinence programs and AIDS education. Short of coming up with a cure, what else do you suggest we do?

Don't undermine the other aspects of sexual education that have proven to work in countries like Uganda.

 

[Todd33]

Originally posted by: jrenz

Originally posted by: zephyrprime
Even if we imported 0% of our oil from the middle east, we would still be susceptible to the volatility of middle east. Oil is a global market. If the middle east cuts production, oil from Canada, Mexico, Venezuela and elsewhere will rise to a price just as high as whatever the price is in Saudi Arabia.

Of course, I expect bush to do nothing about our foreign oil dependence just like he did nothing to relieve aids in Africa.

He promoted abstinence programs and AIDS education. Short of coming up with a cure, what else do you suggest we do?

Yes, he has made the problem worse and wasted a lot of money in the process. Abstinence has never worked ever and he won't fund condoms, something that really does. Who needs science when you have faith based murder?

 

[Meuge]

Originally posted by: jrenz

Originally posted by: zephyrprime
Even if we imported 0% of our oil from the middle east, we would still be susceptible to the volatility of middle east. Oil is a global market. If the middle east cuts production, oil from Canada, Mexico, Venezuela and elsewhere will rise to a price just as high as whatever the price is in Saudi Arabia.

Of course, I expect bush to do nothing about our foreign oil dependence just like he did nothing to relieve aids in Africa.

He promoted abstinence programs and AIDS education. Short of coming up with a cure, what else do you suggest we do?

Sorry, but that's nothing short of mass murder. What the religious groups (and their governments) have done in Africa is one of the most despicable acts in history. They disrupt the actions of the WHO, and promoting abstinence instead of safe sex has resulted in tens of millions of infections.