Dunebuggy/offroad computer

plagiarist

Senior member
Oct 31, 2004
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http://www.glamisdunes.com/invision/index.php?showtopic=67347

As you can see by scrolling down, some of the panels have LCDs integrated for use with GPS etc. I haven't got a straight answer on what sort of PC is used with them. Maybe it's just a Palm CE or something, that makes sense.

Anyway, these buggies tend to be 30-40k for a starter and 90kish for a really plush top line one. I'm thinking- market niche! I could build micro-atx systems specially dampened and filtered to function in harsh conditions and stand up to the pounding of dunes and offroad activities.

How would you guys build one? I have my own set of ideas but I like seeing what other people come up with.
 

phisrow

Golden Member
Sep 6, 2004
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First of all: solid state for everything you possibly can. Dune buggy + Hard Drive = Head crash. Depending on the OS requirements and budget, you could either use CF cards with IDE adapters(up to about 4 gigs these are quite cheap, and will last more or less forever if you don't read/write them to death. Perfect for slim Linux installs, or cut down Windows with plenty of RAM and no swapfile). If you need more, you'd probably be looking at proper solid state drives. Seriously expensive; but they use them for a reason.

Next up, mechanical hardening: Fans are to be avoided if possible. I doubt cheap little case fans like vibration very much. A low power system will be easier on the vehicle's electronic systems, and easier to cool passively. Assuming you don't need too much power, the VIA embedded mainboards are pretty cheap and low power. Various specialty companies produce rather nicer embedded computers based on the pentium M; but those are considerably pricier.

Vibration will be the big enemy. You'll want to pay a great deal of attention to connectors, in particular. At very least, you'll want to physically secure the flash drive(s), RAM, power connectors, etc. You might even want to glue the RAM and flash in permanently. Honestly, I don't quite know how hostile an environment we are dealing with, so I cannot say how much you'll need for certain. Minimal would probably be solid state memory, RAM carefully clipped in place, the whole lot mounted on a good stiff plate and the whole case given intake filters and spring mounted. Tweaky, quite possibly excessive, would be to mount the motherboard, RAM, flash disk, and DC-DC converter on a stiff plate, pot the whole mass in thermally conductive epoxy, top it with a durable heat sink(not tall; but spread out over the entire area of the motherboard, and directly coupled to the epoxy, and then put a heavy mesh cage around the heat sink, to protect it mechanically. That would be a lot of trouble; but it would give you a seriously solid widget. A more or less totally solid lump, with connectors on one edge.

You might also consider looking into what sort of things the computer would be used for, and thus what ports, hardware, and software would make sense. Would they pretty much just be slapping a small screen and a GPS module on it(VGA and USB only, then)? Do people want to have a serial data logger and a bunch of digital I/O on the parallel port? Would they use 802.11B/G, EDGE? Would they need full Windows, or would embedded Linux suit better, what programs do they need, etc.

To my eye, it looked like a lot of those consoles were just GPS units glued(often elegantly, however) to the dashboard. I'd be surprised if you could undercut the cheapness and durability of dedicated GPS navigation systems, if that is all these things are. If you could, however, clearly define the advantage of a full PC, i.e. GPS, with serious logging possibilities + audio + system control and so on, and design a module that would cleanly expose the features and hide the complexity and delicacy of the computer(at least from those who don't want it) you could have a pretty cool widget.
 

plagiarist

Senior member
Oct 31, 2004
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Very good thoughts, I especially like the idea of using epoxy to turn the whole thing into a giant solid state brick. What do you think of these fanless cases? http://www.logicsupply.com/default.php/cPath/23_62 I'd either be interested in some of these ultra-small boards http://www.via.com.tw/en/products/mainboards/ or something like this http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813153027 for more oomph. It'd be nice to have a little lithium chargable battery packed in so that it could run for a while with no power.

For dunebuggies, often people will install performance audio systems. I wouldn't be surprised if a DVD player makes it's way on from time to time. I think a full 'pc' with logging capabilities for the GPS + system (in conjunction with electronic speedometers etc) + an in car docking bay for cameras / flash media + music + satellite radio + engine computer chip control and monitoring + voice control + wireless.. these are useful features.

If I could justify the performance and durability advantage of a true solid state drive, that would be a possibility too. ;)
 

erikistired

Diamond Member
Sep 27, 2000
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throw in some neat geocaching toys. it's all the rage these days.

my wife walked in while i was checking out the buggies and said "don't even consider the thought" and walked back out. darn!
 

plagiarist

Senior member
Oct 31, 2004
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For 1000-3000 you can pick up a nice running VW rail out of your local trader, it'll look something like this: http://adcache.atvtraderonline.com/16/0/9/79596109.htm ;) That's still out of my budget (I have so far made 40 more dollars toward my buy-a-chenowth-chassis fund today) but if I'm building and selling a few 500-1000 dollar in-car ultra-rugged mini computer systems I might make that goal sooner. Plus I'll be able to have a wicked prototype in my own ride.

I'm honestly ga-ga over the alternatives to platter media. Flash cards with IDE adaptors, custom flash drives, drives made up of rows of DDR memory simms...!

I'd have it wirelessly networked with a tiny notebook like the handbook except newer, (I've seen a few like that) (notebook could be the control console if the screen in the dash isn't touchscreen.. or if there isn't a screen. alternately it could be a screen in dash and a hacked ps2 controller / one of those awesome wireless logitech remotes) and there could also be a basic base camp wireless router and repeater so everyone over a certain area would have access to a network... god the possibilites for 'awesome' are endless.

Re: rally computers: http://www.autotap.com/ http://www.obddiagnostics.com/
 

erikistired

Diamond Member
Sep 27, 2000
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i might have to look into that vw rail buggy thing. i just bought a 94 jeep wrangler to turn into a trail rig, but that looks like even more fun. too bad you can't drive it on the road.
 

plagiarist

Senior member
Oct 31, 2004
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Depending on your state, it can be street legal.

That's what I'm going to do. Oh, and ^5 on trail rigs. Just don't make it a rock crawler, life is too short to drive at 1mph ;)

 

erikistired

Diamond Member
Sep 27, 2000
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have you thought about taking a palm of some sort (or whatever, something running windows ce in a palm format) and overhauling it for offroad purposes? perhaps a rugged case, better storage, buggy specific apps. maybe a bigger lcd.
 

gsellis

Diamond Member
Dec 4, 2003
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There are some seriously rugged devices around with solid-state drives. Off the top of my head, I can think of HHP (handheld.com). We tested on of them by throwing it back and forth down the hall with 1 bounce. Some run XP full (may be someone else) and the Dolphins at HHP run CE.
 

plagiarist

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Oct 31, 2004
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I kind of like the idea of a beefed up PDA used for that, but that sort of ruins the idea of me designing a system from the ground up and then selling a few. ;\
 

plagiarist

Senior member
Oct 31, 2004
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Buhhh. Here's my buildup:

JetWay A210GDMS ($80)
CORSAIR ValueSelect 1GB X2 ($150)
AMD Athlon 64 3700+ ($233)
6GB CF card $285.00
IDE adaptor $21
Serener case $169.00
Special XP: http://www.windowsdevcenter.com/pub/a/w...ws/excerpt/CarPCHacks_Chap1/index.html $???
Opus Solutions 150W DC-DC intelligent PSU: $119.00

(alternate to motherboard and case and psu: VoomPC MII10000 Car PC Barebone kit: http://www.mini-box.com/s.nl/sc.8/category.101/it.A/id.399/.f )

Orrrrr I could have something with a pair of 2gb ddr sticks and a lithium rechargeable battery (Fed off the system battery) to keep giving them a charge, (could get away with just one stick using nLite) and have them set as a 4gb sustained solid state battery. The compact flash would be the program file storage drive. With all the goops of ram I could stick on the mainboard, there's no need for a swapfile.

OR I COULD FIND ONE OF THESE FOR $150!!! http://www.anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=2480&p=5 and pack it with 1gb sticks of obsolete ddr200.
 

gsellis

Diamond Member
Dec 4, 2003
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Your biggest problem is heat, dirt, and wet. You cannot leave an airflow as water and dust will get in. You might be able to put an external heat exchanger outside of a sealed case (heat pipe style). Ever hole in the casing has to be attended to in detail to seal it from the stuff. I remember talking to Dana Brown after he filmed Dust to Glory (film on the Baja 1000). He had a 6 figure cleaning bill from Panaflex for the dust that got into the lenses, which are sealed somewhat. Those lenses were filming the race and not in the cars... which is where you want to be.

There are some challenges to DIY ;)
 

plagiarist

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Oct 31, 2004
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I'll have to seal the whole sucker up like a submarine down to rubber flaps/seals over the ports. Then I'll put a heatsink on the entire contiguous top surface and have a radiator-size fan blowing on it. (or position it in the path of existing radiator cooling). That'll keep the dust out- if all of the spaces where dust could get to are taken up by thermal epoxy per Phisrow's suggestion.

http://i1.tinypic.com/nyhi1f.gif is my conception. I'll need some way to make pci boards fit right though, probably with the sideways ribbon cable hack but space will still be tight.