Dune

[BarkingGhostar]

After seeing this during my morning coffee I went over to Amazon and placed the order for the exact one. I first got introduced into the Dune universe during the film's making, c. 1983. I then saw the film in 1984 and fell in love with it. I was just a teenager and had a love of all things science fiction as a form of escapism--SF and photography. I then took a literature class in college in 1994 meant for seniors and graduates in the major--mine was Physics--but because of my knowledge of science fiction books the teacher let me in and I had to stand in the back of the classroom for the first couple of weeks as all of the seats had been taken. The teacher and I got along great, I got an A in the class, but he knew the only freaking book I had not read on his roster of requirements was Dune. After the final the one question I missed was a Dune question and not mentioned in the 1984 film. We laughed and finished our beers.

After the semester ended, I read Dune, and the three books following it as they were available. I always found it interesting that between Star This and Star That there was very unique and very sustainable alternate universe with thousands upon thousands of years of history to it. Virginia Madsen's opening in the film sold me on the universe I was about to be introduced into.a year 10,191, a very delicate time. And while I know they are remaking this film right now, and have had television interpretations of this universe before, I always get sadden at the thought of politico and budget constraints maligning my interpretation of the Dune universe. It is the one universe that I think does its best by staying in the pages of a book.

This will be my third copy of this book. I plan to force my wife to read it. She needs to expand her mind and I have no spice otherwise.

 

[shortylickens]

I dont know if you heard, but they are working on a new movie.

 

[BarkingGhostar]

I already said that above.

 

[BoomerD]

I enjoyed the first Dune book. Subsequent ones, not so much...and as much as I wanted to like the movie...I thought it was trash.

 

[mikeymikec]

The Dune trilogy is definitely worth a read. I don't have high hopes for the movie, given that it's one movie for a freaking huge story.

+1 Dune '84 is trash.

I thought it was watchable until I'd watched the scifi channel miniseries then read the books.

 

[NuclearNed]

I wasn't a huge fan of the movie, and I never read the books. However... Emperor: Battle for Dune is an awesome RTS based on the movie. It's nearly 20 years old & I still play it from time to time.

 

[Spacehead]

I saw the movie before reading any of the books. I really liked it. After reading Dune, yeah, it doesn't hold up so well but i still like it. To do the book justice you'd need a 3-4hr long movie. I guess now it's better suited for a mini-series style were you can take more time.
I've never seen the mini-series but would like to some day. I don't remember where i left off in the reading of the novels, 5-6 books in maybe.

 

[Muse]

The Dune trilogy is definitely worth a read. I don't have high hopes for the movie, given that it's one movie for a freaking huge story.

+1 Dune '84 is trash.

I thought it was watchable until I'd watched the scifi channel miniseries then read the books.

My first love in reading was science fiction, but for whatever reason(s) I never read Dune. I think Bradbury actually lived in my neighborhood (i.e. when I was a teenager, turned onto sci-fi by an older friend), Cheviot Hills, in West Los Angeles.

So, is Dune a great read even today? I don't think I've seen any of the movies, either.

 

[mikeymikec]

So, is Dune a great read even today? I don't think I've seen any of the movies, either.

The trilogy is almost always at the top of sci-fi recommended reading lists.

 

[mikeymikec]

To do the book justice you'd need a 3-4hr long movie. I guess now it's better suited for a mini-series style were you can take more time.

The Dune mini-series totalled 4.6 hours. It left out a couple of subplots iirc (such as Thufir Hawat's involvement), but it was pretty faithful and complete I thought.

 

[BarkingGhostar]

If LOTR:FOTR and the Hobbits can get a multi-film each exceeding three hours in extended offerings then I think Dune could be, too. I do remember while reading the first book coming to the conclusion that the 1984 film borrowed some from the second book. But there is no way to do a fine treatise of the first book, let alone a collection, without having multi-film offering that each of substantial length.

When people saw the 1984 film and found it trash was this because they saw it way after 1984? I am trying to think of one's expectations in that film vs. the book, vs. how other works were interpreted. I liked the visuals a lot because it was different, but I am not so sure that the books detailed enough to speak of how the visuals should have looked and this left a lot open for interpretation by the individual reader.

 

[mikeymikec]

I first saw Dune '84 way after 1984 (I'd guess the mid to late nineties). I actually own it on DVD so I really used to enjoy it, but after the miniseries then the books, and I couldn't help but see the film for what it was: it stripped the books of all complexity, removed most of the plot and turned it into a story that runs along the lines of "this guy is superhuman for no apparent reason, the emperor and guild want him dead for no reason and he's got to defeat the super-duper awful horrible bad guy who wants his family dead and the Duke's ring for no apparent reason".

The visual effects are crap in the Dune 2000 mini-series and its low budget really shows in a lot of ways, but it hit the mark in so many ways and most importantly it showed that Dune can be faithfully converted to film format. I strongly recommend that anyone into sci-fi or the Dune books should watch it.

 

[BarkingGhostar]

This is all true, Mike. Then again I would imagine that any 2-2.5 wide opening film for general audiences would have to be on the light side of the treatise. I think that is the constant battle in Hollywood, though, do a movie for the masses, or a film for the fans. Its risky both ways in terms of box office receipts.

 

[mikeymikec]

I wouldn't know. I didn't think the mini-series was hardcore inaccessible scifi, but that's just me. The only element that could be problematic IMO is that the Dune books do have an anti-religion theme, and considering what Hollywood did to 'Warm Bodies' I suspect that doesn't go over well.

Converting the Hyperion books to a successful big-budget movie format that doesn't sacrifice complexity for accessibility would be nigh-on impossible.

 

[Spacehead]

The Dune trilogy is definitely worth a read.

The trilogy is almost always at the top of sci-fi recommended reading lists.

Curious, why do you keep referring to to it as a "trilogy"? Didn't he write like 6 or seven books?
OK i just looked. Herbert wrote 6 of the books.

 

[mikeymikec]

What's referred to as the Dune Trilogy is actually:

Dune
Dune Messiah
Children of Dune

The third concludes the plotline of Paul's godhead, which is important given the books' anti-religion message.

 

[Kaido]

Hah, I just introduced a friend to Dune. Told him to read the book, not watch any of the movies tho lol. Definitely one of my favorites!

 

[BarkingGhostar]

What's referred to as the Dune Trilogy is actually:

Dune
Dune Messiah
Children of Dune

The third concludes the plotline of Paul's godhead, which is important given the books' anti-religion message.

Which is surprising because I felt the Fremen were something akin to the Muslim religion. I usually don't bode well when religion is in a book, hence my Asimov/Clarke preferences, but I tolerated Hubert's writings in this universe. Oh, I still remember a line from 25 years ago ... twice and instill not enough for house atreides. That line resonated with me for a long time considering the context.

 

[DigDog]

shhh ..

there are many Harkonnen spies amongst (YES FORUM SPELLCHECKER, THAT IS A REAL WORD) us who do not like Lynch's masterpiece. I say, they will rot in the insides of a worm, by Muad'dib.

This may be apocryphal, because i no longer remember the source, but as i understand it, Herbert was pushed to write the sequels by his editor, following the initial reception of the first novel.
I, personally think the sequels stink. The style is different, the plots are forced, and the story is dumb.

In the first Dune, very little is accomplished by a single character. Duke Leto is killed, the Baron, Rabat and Feyd fail in all their attempts, the Emperor fails, Jessica and Paul are manhandled by the Fremen after being captured and left for dead, and only through the prophecy (which is explained, is a fabrication of the Bene Gesserit) and allowing the religious fervor of the Fremen to assist them do they accomplish anything, Yueh fails his assassination attempt, Gurney and Duncan fail to protect either the Duke or Paul, Tufir is captured and killed, Kynes is captured and killed, essentially the only people who get shit done are the Fremen, as explained in the preface of "Dune breeds amazing warriors", something that was omitted from the film.
This complex, intertwined, long-ongoing scheming is the main plot of Dune - not Paul's ascention, but rather the Bene Gesserit's attempt at the Quizats Haderach, their constructing the prophecy in the seed worlds, the Fremen training themselves, the Guild's dependency on the spice, the houses's dependency on Mentats, the Emperor being propped up by the spice trade, all things which have been ongoing for long before the story of the book, and which are all about to come crashing down because of how unsustainable they are.

In the following books, the feeling of this live, momentous universe where everyone plots, but is often hindered by the difficulty of getting shit done, when both you cannot rely on modern technology, and also everyone is hostile to you, is replaced by a superman who can do pretty much everything without fail. And, it's not just the god emperor, but also the Tleilaux, and pretty much everyone involved in the plot manages to succeed in whatever effort they planned - the Guild successfully shields their plans from Paul's omnipotent vision, Irulan poisons Chani, the facedancer corrupts Paul, etc, it's all done for shock value.

The reason why this is, is that if you build a character's journey to perfection, then you can't really use that character anymore. Superman is boring. Dune is perfectly fine ending on that one note, but you ca't really continue along the same path. A similar example of this happens in the first Mass Effect, where the entire point of Sheppard's character is that he/she is going to fight an enemy that cannot be beaten. It's ok, we all love a tragic hero, but if you un-tragic the hero by making the unbeatable villain beatable, then you have really retconned into triviality the initial sense of doom that made the character in the first place.

And, it's obvious to me - without any tangible proof - that this is what has happened in the Dune series. It would not be the first time that an author has completely missed the main point of their own work when writing a sequel. Obviously Herbert can do as he pleases, but to me, the dune sequels are trash.

I'm really smart.
s.m.rt.
smart.

FYI - be mindful of what you read TODAY about the publication history of Dune. Remember that back in the 80s, Deckard wasn't a replicant - he just became one when it became more profitable that he was one.

 

[mikeymikec]

Which is surprising because I felt the Fremen were something akin to the Muslim religion.

Read the books again / watch the mini-series.

They understand the sandworm's relevance in their cycle of life, and they live by the law of the minimum in the desert. They're basically led by science, and even their hope that one day Arrakis will become a paradise is fuelled by science. The only element of their beliefs that could be seen as religious is the wonderfully vague prophecy of the off-worlder, and that was given to them by the Bene Gesserit. The BG explain that they've done this on countless worlds in case they get stranded on a hostile planet and they can control the populace by fulfilling the role in the bullshit prophecy.

 

[BarkingGhostar]

Not knocking any religion--I'm not a practitioner, here. And that was something I said in my youth--we all learn and grow. I am sure this holiday season when I plan to re-read the books I might feel completely different with a lot more experiences in me.

 

[mikeymikec]

Not knocking any religion

I didn't think you were.

 

[Muse]

My first love in reading was science fiction, but for whatever reason(s) I never read Dune. I think Bradbury actually lived in my neighborhood (i.e. when I was a teenager, turned onto sci-fi by an older friend), Cheviot Hills, in West Los Angeles.

So, is Dune a great read even today? I don't think I've seen any of the movies, either.

Ooo, my bad, I thought it was Bradbury. I think he wrote The Martian Chronicles, not Dune. Anyway I just ordered Dune... amazing I never read it. Just the first volume, I heard the others aren't as good

 

[sdifox]

My first love in reading was science fiction, but for whatever reason(s) I never read Dune. I think Bradbury actually lived in my neighborhood (i.e. when I was a teenager, turned onto sci-fi by an older friend), Cheviot Hills, in West Los Angeles.

So, is Dune a great read even today? I don't think I've seen any of the movies, either.

Read the first trilogy. And Bradbury is not Herbert.

 

[BarkingGhostar]

Oh, he'll read the trilogy, he just doesn't know it yet. The first book sucks you into it.