Dude, I am getting a Dell server.

[Stoltenborg]

After around 2 hours of talking with a friend with lots of experience on the phone, then my huge dataloss recently, I am scared straight. Time to get a more competent server.


This server will handle:

1. An MS SQL Server
2. All of our company documents
3. The Point of Sale software server
4. The credit card server
5. Our accounting information
6. Company calendar and employee schedule

I have 5 client PCs that will be hooked into it, all running mostly the Point of Sale client, some web browsing, and email.

I expect the company to double in size over the next 3 years.


I configured this for $2,158.00. Overkill? Just right? ... this price includes no OS or software, OR tape backup setup. It seems like I should be getting more. Can anyone help me configure something appropriate?

PowerEdge 700


Catalog Number / Description Product Code SKU Id

PowerEdge 700:
Intel® Pentium® 4 processor, 2.8GHz, 1MB Cache, 800MHz FSB 700281 [221-4108] 1


Operating System:
No Operating System NOOSO [420-4190] 11


Mail- In Rebate:
None NONE [463-1832] 81


Memory:
1GB DDR,400MHz, 2x512MB DIMMs 1GB2D [310-8803] 3


Floppy Drive:
Internal 1.44MB 3.5 in Floppy Disk Drive FD [341-0240] 10


CD-ROM:
CDRW/DVD,48X32,IDE,Half Height,PE700 48CDDVD [313-2654] 16


Keyboard:
NO Keyboard Option N [320-2969] 4


Mouse:
No Mouse N [320-2346] 12


Monitors:
No Monitor Option N [320-2968] 5


Documentation:
Electronic Documentation and OpenManage CD Kit EDOCS [410-0358][410-0636] 21


Hardware Support Services:
3Yr Same Day 4Hr Response Parts + Onsite Labor (M-F 8am-6pm) W3Y5X10 [960-1305][902-4450][902-3062] 29


Installation Support Services:
No Installation Assessment NOINSTL [900-9997] 32


Hard Drive Configuration:
SCSI RAID 1, 2 SCSI Hard Drives attached to add PERC SCSI RAID Cntrl ASCR1 [340-9891] 27


Primary Controller:
PERC4-SC Single Channel U320 RAID Controller, 64MB cache, 1 Int Channel PERC4SI [342-0004] 9


Boot Hard Drives:
18GB 15,000 RPM Ultra 320 SCSI Hard Drive 18CS153 [340-9826] 8


Additional Hard Drives:
18GB 15,000 RPM Ultra 320 SCSI Hard Drive 18CS153 [340-9826] 23


Network Card:
On-board Network Adapter OBNIC [430-0488] 13

 

[jose]

After experiencing a huge data loss, why don't you have raid 5 w/ a hot spare ?? I'd get whichever poweredge supported the following:

2.4Ghz Processor + 2 gig's of ram
Perc4 raid cntrl.
6 - 10k scsi hd's in a raid 5 config w/ 1 hot spare.
some type of tape backup.. ie 20/40 dds4 is about $399 (you can install it later)

Regards,
Jose

 

[Glavinsolo]

looks good but as jose said I would take those cheap 18gb and switch them out for (3) 36gb 15k Ultra 320s at the very least that way you have 72gb and a hot spare. Instead of 18gb of mirrored storage. If this is going to handle all of those apps and critical docs you might want to do a little research in redundancy. UPS, Dual nics, dual power adapters, raid 5...

 

[Stoltenborg]

My budget is 3500-4000

how does this look? I will need a tape backup on top of it...

PowerEdge 2800 Qty 1
Intel® Xeon? processor at 2.8GHz/1MB Cache, 800MHz FSB, Windows 2003 Small Business Server, Standard Edition Unit Price $3,046.00
Catalog Number: 4

Module Description Product Code Sku Id
PowerEdge 2800 Intel® Xeon? processor at 2.8GHz/1MB Cache, 800MHz FSB 28028 [221-5955] 1
Operating System Windows 2003 Small Business Server, Standard Edition SBS2K3S [420-4148] 11
Additional Processor Single Processor only 1P [311-1193] 2
Memory FREE UPGRADE to 1GB DDR2 400MHz 2X512 Single Ranked 1GDBL [463-3623] 3
Keyboard Standard Windows Keyboard,Gray S [310-1676] 4
Monitor No Monitor Option N [320-0058] 5
Primary Hard Drive 36GB 10K RPM Ultra 320 SCSI Hard Drive 36G103 [341-1286] 8
Primary Controller Embedded RAID (ROMB) - PERC4ei (Embedded Integrated) ROMB [341-1475] 9
Floppy Drive No Floppy Drive NFD [341-0838] 10
Mouse Logitech PS/2 2-button Mouse with Scroll L2M [310-4405] 12
Network Adapter Onboard NICS OBNICS [430-8991] 13
CD/DVD Drive 24X IDE CD-ROM 24XCD [313-2700] 16
Bezel Active ID Bezel Option for Tower Configuration TBEZEL [313-2699] 17
Hard Drive Backplane 1x8 Hot Plug SCSI Hard Drive Backplane 1X8BKPL [311-4283] 18
Documentation Electronic Documentation and OpenManage CD Kit EDOCS [310-5476] 21
2nd Hard Drive 36GB 10K RPM Ultra 320 SCSI Hard Drive 36G103 [341-1286] 23
Hard Drive Configuration Drives attached to embedded PERC4ei, RAID 1, 2 drives required MR1N [341-1326] 27
Chassis Configuration Tower Chassis Orientation TOWER [310-5467] 28
Hardware Support Services 3Yr BRONZE Support, Next Business Day Onsite BRONZEW [960-1305][902-8090][902-7072] 29
Installation Support Services No Installation Assessment NOINSTL [900-9997] 32
Power Supply Non-Redundant Power Supply NRPS [310-5553] 36
Mail- In Rebate None NONE [463-1832] 81
Technical Sales Representative Contact No TSRNO [462-9389] 192

 

[imported_Phil]

Add an extra drive to make RAID-5 and you're golden.

Seriously, RAID-1 is not enough for business critical applications.

 

[Gagabiji]

Going to host some games on that baby or what?

 

[Stoltenborg]

Originally posted by: Dopefiend
Add an extra drive to make RAID-5 and you're golden.

Seriously, RAID-1 is not enough for business critical applications.

 

[Stoltenborg]

Originally posted by: Dopefiend
Add an extra drive to make RAID-5 and you're golden.

Seriously, RAID-1 is not enough for business critical applications.

noted...

 

[sharkeeper]

Seriously, RAID-1 is not enough for business critical applications.

Why do you say this?

You do realise that in either case you can only suffer one drive failure until you rebuild! A hot spare is nice to automate this, but another disk can go while the rebuild is in progress. I've seen it for myself and it isn
t (always) fun.

One must also remember that recovering the R5 is much more difficult (in the event of a second failure) as the data is striped across multiple disks, etc. Lose the second disk in a mirror and you can still do recovery without going way in the red.

If you need more fault tolerance, R10 is the way to go.

For a basic server like the OP is looking for, R1 makes the most sense.

Too often I see servers in the field with three disks in RAID5 with a few GB partitioned for the OS and the rest partitioned for data. And people wonder why its performance sucks!

Cheers!

 

[Agamar]

Raid 1 will work fine with just 5 users, even up to 20 low usage users. I would get at least 40 gig drives though. Raid 5 is fine, but unless you opt for the hot spare, you can still only lose 1 drive (just like a mirrored set could). Not to mention that 4 drives (with the hot spare) vs 2 drives would run the cost up a lot higher.

BTW, where is your tape backup? I would at least add a DDS-4 drive to that mix.

 

[imported_Phil]

Originally posted by: sharkeeper

Seriously, RAID-1 is not enough for business critical applications.

Why do you say this?

You do realise that in either case you can only suffer one drive failure until you rebuild! A hot spare is nice to automate this, but another disk can go while the rebuild is in progress. I've seen it for myself and it isn
t (always) fun.

One must also remember that recovering the R5 is much more difficult (in the event of a second failure) as the data is striped across multiple disks, etc. Lose the second disk in a mirror and you can still do recovery without going way in the red.

If you need more fault tolerance, R10 is the way to go.

For a basic server like the OP is looking for, R1 makes the most sense.

Too often I see servers in the field with three disks in RAID5 with a few GB partitioned for the OS and the rest partitioned for data. And people wonder why its performance sucks!

Cheers!

While I partially bow to your years of experience , the reason I say it is because it's a lot more automated- the spare kicks in, and you don't have to arrange downtime to replace the drive (unless they're hot-swap, of course).

I actually don't really know why I didn't think it through more- like I posted in Goosemaster's thread, our pet rats are dying with a few days left to live, so I'm not really thinking straight right now.

Apologies, Stoltenborg; go with RAID 1.

 

[Vegito]

RAID 10 - Striping of Mirrored Arrays
RAID-10 Striping of Mirrored Arrays RAID-10 is a combination of RAID-1 and RAID-0. This configuration requires at least four disks, and offers good performance, protection, and capacity of all the RAID levels. RAID-10 consists of pairs of mirrored disks whose data is striped across the entire array. In many cases, RAID-10 can sustain multiple simultaneous disk failures making it less susceptible to downtime. It has a low probability of data loss.


DO NOT USE R10 On DELL, My main job function is to make sure servers are configure correctly and having correct raid levels. I have specific raid levels on over 50 dell servers using different EMC/Powervault systems. Half the guys at dell thinks RAID 10 is true raid 10 but its not. Their controller which is LSI/AMI does not support True RAID10. Its RAID 1 Concatenated.

Take a look at the link below and you'll see why R10 on dell is crap. It basically writes to the first mirror and when that is full it writes to the next mirror. It does not do Striping at all.

Bury deep deep within Dell's DOC
RAID-10 on PERC 2/SC, 2/DC, 3/SC, 3/DCL, 3/DC, 3/QC, 4/Di, and CERC ATA100/4ch controllers is implemented as RAID-1 Concatenated.

http://docs.us.dell.com/suppor...2/ch3_stor.htm#1031605

On Dell, your best bet is Raid 5 or Raid 50

 

[sharkeeper]

On Dell, your best bet is Raid 5 or Raid 50

Better yet, ditch the PERC and use a real HBA!

Cheers!

 

[Vegito]

Yeah I got a few of the cx500.. they do true RAID 10... I wonder if the CX300 using sata would do true raid 10... with that budget.. its too much... I didn't even like the cx500 price/storage ratio.. but too bad for me..

I think on compaq/hp, they might offer true raid 10.. but these perc are lsi cards so if they all use lsi cards.. its no go..

 

[Woodie]

Business use ("mission critical")

RAID 5...w/ at least 3 SCSI drives.
0 downtime...
...you pull the dead drive while the server is still up,
...it automatically rebuilds the drive, while the server is still up,
...you're done, while the server is still up! and you never had to touch the keyboard at all.

If two drives fail at the same time, you're dead with either RAID config. So get the 4 hour onsite replacement deal for the drives, or (cheaper) just buy an extra drive, and install it as an online spare, or keep it in the closet as an offline spare.

FYI, RAID 5 only takes off performance-wise when you get into the 6-8 drive arrays. 3 drives is not going to rock anyones world performance-wise, but it's very stable.

In some years of corporate work, I've very rarely seen two drive fail at the same time. The most common scenario was that someone missed the first dead drive, so when the second one died (weeks/months later), the whole server was out of the water.

 

[Stoltenborg]

Originally posted by: Agamar
Raid 1 will work fine with just 5 users, even up to 20 low usage users. I would get at least 40 gig drives though. Raid 5 is fine, but unless you opt for the hot spare, you can still only lose 1 drive (just like a mirrored set could). Not to mention that 4 drives (with the hot spare) vs 2 drives would run the cost up a lot higher.

BTW, where is your tape backup? I would at least add a DDS-4 drive to that mix.

 

[Stoltenborg]

Originally posted by: Agamar
Raid 1 will work fine with just 5 users, even up to 20 low usage users. I would get at least 40 gig drives though. Raid 5 is fine, but unless you opt for the hot spare, you can still only lose 1 drive (just like a mirrored set could). Not to mention that 4 drives (with the hot spare) vs 2 drives would run the cost up a lot higher.

BTW, where is your tape backup? I would at least add a DDS-4 drive to that mix.

 

[Stoltenborg]

I ordered the system and will be running a Raid 5.

Originally posted by: Agamar
Raid 1 will work fine with just 5 users, even up to 20 low usage users. I would get at least 40 gig drives though. Raid 5 is fine, but unless you opt for the hot spare, you can still only lose 1 drive (just like a mirrored set could). Not to mention that 4 drives (with the hot spare) vs 2 drives would run the cost up a lot higher.

BTW, where is your tape backup? I would at least add a DDS-4 drive to that mix.

I left $1k in my budget for a nice tape drive backup system. I need help with this; any articles, or advice as to what you would buy if you were in my shoes?

TIA

 

[Stoltenborg]

I have over 50k combined posts on boards and I have never made this many double/blank posts. This popup window is whack.

 

[zodder]

I would also seriously look into 2 gigs of RAM. If you are getting SBS on that, I assume you will also be running some sort of mail server as well. The Exhange store is a memory hog and having both SQL and Exchange on the same server is going to use as much RAM as you can feed it.

 

[sharkeeper]

I would also seriously look into 2 gigs of RAM. If you are getting SBS on that, I assume you will also be running some sort of mail server as well. The Exhange store is a memory hog and having both SQL and Exchange on the same server is going to use as much RAM as you can feed it

And it will absolutely choke if the database, log and paging files are on the same R5 LD!

Cheers!

 

[Vegito]

I recently upgrade my sql server to 6650, quad 3.0ghz w/ 4mb cache each..
I believe sql data is okay on raid 5 but log should be on raid 1
to optimized sql cost $$

my server is

raid 1 - 36 gb 15k boot drive
raid 1 - 36 gb 15k swap file & replication data log
raid 5 - 73 gb 15k x3 + 1 hs - sql data
raid 1 - 73 gb 15k x1 + 1 hs - sql log

I put boot and sql data on seperate u320 bus.. used a dual channel scsi controller.

If you're planning to put both exchange & sql on same.. you should consider 1 really fast machine and use VM to seperate and limit processing power of sql & exchange. Lots of memory is good