Dual Socket Motherboard for i7/ SLI?

[Davidh373]

Is there a dual socket LGA 1366 motherboard known to work with the i7 series? I'm going to be coming into some money soon and I was hoping to get an upgrade for my system. I am into 3D/ HDV/DV editing and rendering as well as some photoshop.

I currently own the i7 920, with a Radeon HD4890 with 6GB DDR3, and a velociraptor HD.

I'm hoping to upgrade to Dual i7 980Xs (formerly known as i9), Nvidia Geforce 385s SLI and 12GB Ram.

I will also probably replace my PSU with an 850W as not to burn it out. I currently have a Corsair 650TX.

I have heard of companies (EVGA comes to mind) who have tested the i9 in dual socket configs, but I am worried about the Dual 1366 socket Mobos on newegg, because they say they are compatible with the LGA 1366 Xeon Nehalem procs. The i7s are LGA 1366 Nehalem, but I don't know how I can be sure the motherboard's BIOS will support the i7. Can anyone point me in a direction I need to head in to find more information, or even better give me the info I need?

 

[Gillbot]

Supermicro and Evga I believe, there might be an Asus dual also but I don't recall.

Here's a dual, no idea if it does SLI.

 

[alyarb]

you will need Xeons to run a two-socket machine.

 

[vailr]

The Supermicro X8DA3-O board in this review supports Crossfire, but not SLI:
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/cpus/2009/03/30/intel-xeon-w5580-nehalem-ep-review/1
Lowest price for that board on Google is: $416.
Only currently supported CPU is the Xeon 5500.

 

[Jimbo]

The cheapest Xeon 55XX series is about $600 a processor (you will need two) and that's for the cheapest/slowest 2.26 GHz.

If you want real speed at 3.33GHz, you are looking at almost $1,700 per chip.

It would be a single machine rendering monster, but it might be more cost effective to just build a real rendering cluster. I guess it just depends on how much time you will be spending on it.

 

[ViviTheMage]

you will need Xeons to run a two-socket machine.

Bingo, if you are going to run TWO processors, they have to be XEON, I haven't heard of i7/desktop series working in 2x.


These are darn good processors :

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...N82E1681911718

I have used those in the board I have for sale that Gillbot so nicely linked...if you wanted to, you could sell your i7, and memory, get some 3x4GB memory and have yourself a dual CPU quad xeon with 24GB of memory.

 

[Jimbo]

Bingo, if you are going to run TWO processors, they have to be XEON, I haven't heard of i7/desktop series working in 2x.


These are darn good processors :

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...N82E1681911718

I have used those in the board I have for sale that Gillbot so nicely linked...if you wanted to, you could sell your i7, and memory, get some 3x4GB memory and have yourself a dual CPU quad xeon with 24GB of memory.

Any idea what the comparitive rendering power of two 3000 series Xeons compared to the 5000 series?

The price difference is staggering, and I bet from a cost standpoint, it would not scale as well as the 3000 Xeons would.

If you just want massive numbers of cores, then there is still AMD, and that will let you go 8-Way.

 

[Davidh373]

Thank you very much. I don't believe you need Xeons for Dual Socket. I have seen dual i7 benchmarks compared to Nehalem Xeons and they kicked the xeon's ass' on renders in mental ray. It may have been a preview, but I know they're in existence. EVGA has been posted as a manufacturer and I've heard rumors about Supermicro. I just don't know if they're out, or if they are labeled as Xeon only when they will support the 1366 i7s.
The Xeon Nehalem is good, but if it's not as good, and it's more expensive, why bother...
If the i7 4 core can kick a 4 core Xeon's ass, the 6 core will annihilate it. It would be foolish of manufacturers to ignore that would it not?

 

[Davidh373]

Here's some proof @ what I said I thought was true.

http://www.semiaccurate.com/2010/01/09/evgas-dual-1366-board-explored/

http://forum.xcpus.com/rumor-mill/2...-motherboard-running-2x-i7-980x-cpus-ces.html

 

[Davidh373]

Any idea what the comparitive rendering power of two 3000 series Xeons compared to the 5000 series?

The price difference is staggering, and I bet from a cost standpoint, it would not scale as well as the 3000 Xeons would.

If you just want massive numbers of cores, then there is still AMD, and that will let you go 8-Way.

The Nehalem Xeon (5500) supports DDR3 Ram, and a bigger L3 Cache and L2 cache. On this basis it will be more efficient and effective at rendering.

 

[jaggerwild]

you will need Xeons to run a two-socket machine.

http://www.semiaccurate.com/2010/01/27/core-i7-can-work-dual-cpu-mode/

 

[Davidh373]

http://www.semiaccurate.com/2010/01/27/core-i7-can-work-dual-cpu-mode/

Thank you so much. It looks like a product isn't out yet unfortunately, but I won't be getting paid enough to get it right away anyway. First, I'm getting Adobe Production Premium, then I'm investing in a small server, then a production license for ZBrush, a 1080p monitor, and then the Gulftown i7 980X. Then hopefully I then will save to buy a second Gulftown and the mobo.

Truth be told this may not happen for a while, but My friend and I have started making money with our production company, so it's going down, but I can't say when. I know the Xeons probably have better connection, because they've been working with them like that for a while, but having 4 more cores would probably be better than QPI right? It would be cool if they somehow added QPI to the i7, but hey, it's just a dream.

I know it's kind of off topic, but what do you guys think of the Geforce 385? I'm thinking of getting two of those WAY later, but with CUDA and the new fermi architecture adapted from the newer Quadros, they are supposed to be awesome.

 

[Jimbo]

The Nehalem Xeon (5500) supports DDR3 Ram, and a bigger L3 Cache and L2 cache. On this basis it will be more efficient and effective at rendering.

The 5500 series Xeons are more capable, but I was thinking of more of a dollar per production equation. The 3000 series Xeons support DDR3 just fine but are much cheaper.

 

[mozartrules]

To use a CPU in a dual CPU board you need them to have two QPI links, that means the 55xx series (W55xx is 130W, X55xx is 95W, E55xx is 80W and L55xx is 60W). The Xeon 35xx series lack the second QPI just like the desktop i7 processors. Look at the specs on the motherboard that uses the Tylersburg chipset, they should all mention that they require the 5500 series CPU.

See this review from a guy who didn't read the small print (and tricked by a NewEgg combi deal) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819117211.

It is possible that someone will make a motherboard that will support CPUs with only one QPI link, but that is not likely to work well. You will notice that the motherboards have the RAM modules linked to each processor, this means that one of the CPUs have to use that second QPI link if the data is on the other set of memory banks. This was the reason QPI was developed (the 1366 desktop uses look more like an afterthought) and why the Nehalem generation obliterates the Xeon 54xx series in dual CPU configuration (on the desktop is just faster).

The 55xx are worth the money if you need the power in a single non-overclocked machine (I use X5570 servers at work). The dual CPU boards will also support a lot more RAM (my work machine has 72Gb, but 144Gb is possible).

If 12Gb is a lot of RAM to you then get the best i7 desktop processor you can buy (soon a six core) and overclock it as far as you can. Your 385 reference indicates that this is for gaming which makes the dual socket boards a complete waste of money (the present boards cannot be overclocked!).

Xeons and socket 1366 desktop CPUs are all the "same". They just gets binned such that the ones with two good QPI links becomes 5500s. The W35xx Xeons supports ECC memory and may be higher binned than i7 920s but they have the same TDP.

Newegg prices of three 2.66GHz four core Nehalems

i7 920 $289
W3520 $310
X5550 $1000

The X5550 is so expensive (1) because it has the second QPI link and a 95W TDP and (2) because there are lots of companies who needs this kind of processor.

You will probably see a similar setup when the 6-core 32nm CPUs come out. The 980 will be the desktop version and there will be Xeons that work in dual socket systems and those that work only in single socket systems (the latter with prices just above the desktop CPU).

Your links are not exactly facts and it is not certain that the test 980s out there are desktop versions (they are probably engineering versions). Look at the prices above: Intel is pretty good at making different markets to protect the server income and it would be unusual if they would make it possible to use desktop processors in dual socket systems given the huge price difference.

 

[Davidh373]

Well, How much are said productions worth? Semi-professionals do projects for $2000 a second (3D and AE) and $10,000 - $20,000 (Commercial DV editing). When your time is worth that much, ANY boost in performance to decrease render time is worth the money. I know a Digital sculptor who has a a QuadroFX 4800, a Dual Xeon setup @ 3.33GHz, 48GB DDR3 and 3 Nvidia Teslas. The machine cost him at least 15K, but it pays for itself instantly when you're making that much cash. Also, something to point out is he wants to replace it with something better (I'm assuming he'd salvage the teslas).

L3 Cache is much faster than L2, and from what I understand effects the speed it sends data to the Ram. Compatibility and getting better performance are two different things. Also, the 3220 (a few MHz faster than the 3210 on newegg) is sold as the core 2 quad as well.

http://structureddata.org/2009/04/0...ries-processors-makes-databases-go-2x-faster/

There is some review quoted in there as to performance compared to the 5400 series. the 3000 series (I believe) is much older, and therefore slower yet. Considering you are only saving a mere 3-$400 it doesn't seem worth it to me for the performance hit you will take.

 

[Davidh373]

To use a CPU in a dual CPU board you need them to have two QPI links, that means the 55xx series (W55xx is 130W, X55xx is 95W, E55xx is 80W and L55xx is 60W). The Xeon 35xx series lack the second QPI just like the desktop i7 processors. Look at the specs on the motherboard that uses the Tylersburg chipset, they should all mention that they require the 5500 series CPU.

See this review from a guy who didn't read the small print (and tricked by a NewEgg combi deal) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819117211.

It is possible that someone will make a motherboard that will support CPUs with only one QPI link, but that is not likely to work well. You will notice that the motherboards have the RAM modules linked to each processor, this means that one of the CPUs have to use that second QPI link if the data is on the other set of memory banks. This was the reason QPI was developed (the 1366 desktop uses look more like an afterthought) and why the Nehalem generation obliterates the Xeon 54xx series in dual CPU configuration (on the desktop is just faster).

The 55xx are worth the money if you need the power in a single non-overclocked machine (I use X5570 servers at work). The dual CPU boards will also support a lot more RAM (my work machine has 72Gb, but 144Gb is possible).

If 12Gb is a lot of RAM to you then get the best i7 desktop processor you can buy (soon a six core) and overclock it as far as you can. Your 385 reference indicates that this is for gaming which makes the dual socket boards a complete waste of money (the present boards cannot be overclocked!).

Xeons and socket 1366 desktop CPUs are all the "same". They just gets binned such that the ones with two good QPI links becomes 5500s. The W35xx Xeons supports ECC memory and may be higher binned than i7 920s but they have the same TDP.

Newegg prices of three 2.66GHz four core Nehalems

i7 920 $289
W3520 $310
X5550 $1000

The X5550 is so expensive (1) because it has the second QPI link and a 95W TDP and (2) because there are lots of companies who needs this kind of processor.

You will probably see a similar setup when the 6-core 32nm CPUs come out. The 980 will be the desktop version and there will be Xeons that work in dual socket systems and those that work only in single socket systems (the latter with prices just above the desktop CPU).

Your links are not exactly facts and it is not certain that the test 980s out there are desktop versions (they are probably engineering versions). Look at the prices above: Intel is pretty good at making different markets to protect the server income and it would be unusual if they would make it possible to use desktop processors in dual socket systems given the huge price difference.

The 385 will use the fermi microarchitecture and CUDA. I want Dual i7 980xs' for a render/ work station, not a server, and I'm certainly not a guy to think dual processors are anywhere near necessary for gaming. I just think Xeons are a waste of money if these EVGA boards (linked farther up the thread) work like they are being hyped.

I want a $2000 Workstation, not a $12,000 one. I am just starting in the industry, I don't want to spend all the $$$ I make. One day I will buy a Mac Pro and get 2 Quadros and a tesla for it, but for now I want a fast machine that won't break my bank.

Thank you for telling me about what a QPI does. I have not read into that but I should. Would you advise only replacing the i7 I have now when the hexicore Gulftown comes out or try to get 2 and the new mobo from EVGA? It's being tested with Gulftowns from what i've heard and it's looking good. Obviously right now it's a little hard to tell...

 

[Davidh373]

Sorry, Double post... but I want to get this across Mozartrules. The i7 980x (i9 or i7 980x) WILL INCLUDE intel quickpath interconnect (QPI). It will be the first consumer proc to do so. So the Gulftown will work like the Xeon, according to the rumors at least... It is also rumored it will replace the Xeons in Mac Pros by 2011.

http://www.tuaw.com/2009/12/15/leaked-details-of-intels-core-i7-980x-processor/

 

[mozartrules]

The i7 980x (i9 or i7 980x) WILL INCLUDE intel quickpath interconnect (QPI). It will be the first consumer proc to do so.

All socket 1366 processors have QPI, the difference is whether they have one or two. One is used to communicate with the motherboard (like the X58 chipset) and one is used to communicate with the second processor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_QuickPath_Interconnect

But none of us knows for certain whether the desktop 32nm 6-core will have one or two QPI links until it is released. What we do know is that Intel's business practice indicates that it will have only one even of they have to disable it on purpose.

Communication between processors is one reason why multi-socket systems are so expensive compared to single-socket systems and this does of course get really expensive with more than two sockets (the 32 socket IBM P6 at work is about $3 million).

 

[mozartrules]

I want a $2000 Workstation, not a $12,000 one.

Then your best choice is to keep your i920, upgrade to 12Gb RAM and an SSD. Wait till the price drops on the 32nm processors. This may even be the right solution until Sandy Bridge comes along.

You are not going to get cutting edge stuff with a $2000 budget and buying things for planned upgrades has been a suspect idea for a long time.

 

[mozartrules]

L3 Cache is much faster than L2, and from what I understand effects the speed it sends data to the Ram.

http://structureddata.org/2009/04/0...ries-processors-makes-databases-go-2x-faster/

That is not what the article says. L3 cache is typically slower than L2 cache (it at a minimum has higher latency) but there is nothing about that. What it does is showing how much faster the 5500 Xeons are than the 5400 Xeons (which kind of corresponds to the desktop Q9xxx). This is partly due to the QPI link.

There is some review quoted in there as to performance compared to the 5400 series. the 3000 series (I believe) is much older, and therefore slower yet. Considering you are only saving a mere 3-$400 it doesn't seem worth it to me for the performance hit you will take.

Remember that there are many 3xxx Xeons with the second digit indicating generation. The 35xx are Nehalem based and similar to the desktop i7 9xx processors, the 34xx are similar to the Q9xxx desktops). Anything in the 33xx or below is too old to be relevant.

I would guess that there will be 36xx numbers for the 32nm single QPI Xeons just like there will be 56xx numbers for the dual QPIs.

 

[Davidh373]

All socket 1366 processors have QPI, the difference is whether they have one or two. One is used to communicate with the motherboard (like the X58 chipset) and one is used to communicate with the second processor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_QuickPath_Interconnect

But none of us knows for certain whether the desktop 32nm 6-core will have one or two QPI links until it is released. What we do know is that Intel's business practice indicates that it will have only one even of they have to disable it on purpose.

Communication between processors is one reason why multi-socket systems are so expensive compared to single-socket systems and this does of course get really expensive with more than two sockets (the 32 socket IBM P6 at work is about $3 million).

"it will be the first dual-socket, six-core processor from Intel" (from http://www.tuaw.com/2009/12/15/leaked-details-of-intels-core-i7-980x-processor/). If this is true, how will it not have 2 QPI? unless some other system is incorporated. I realize it is all rumor at this point, but they are going to be $1000, even if that's 3.33Ghz it's still an expensive proc.

My i7 machine kicks the crap out of my school's brand new Xeon machines. They have less ram, but rendering is mostly done on the processor. I know they are the Nehalem 2.16 GHz. so mine is 2.66, but given it is the same Nehalem Architecture, and higher speed for about $400 less (at the same speed and Core count) what makes them so different? I could see intel putting another QPI unit in, and adding 2 cores to kick the crap out of AMD before they release their 12 core procs.

School Specs

Xeon Quad Core (asked tech that ordered them, they are Nehalem) Clocked @ 2.16 GHz

4 GB DDr3 1333

512 MB Quadro FX (model unknown, but has CUDA supported)

My Specs

i7 Bloomfield 2.66

6GB DDR3 1066

1GB Radeon 4890

Renderer used: Mental Ray with x32 3DS Max 2009

Considering mine takes near 1/2 the time to render (give or take 3 seconds a frame) with nothing else running in the background, I'd say they are at least relative in their performance. Especially since the school has CUDA running on their Quadro cards.

The computers also have the same programs installed with one major exception, Novell Client. I know this program slows computers a bit, but I would think not enough to matter.


Especially since 1 i7 980x 3.33 will cost $1000

one Xeon 3.33 will cost $1700

 

[mozartrules]

That is probably the 2.13GHz E5506 which is a bit crippled (only 4Mb L3), this is what happens to the Nehalem dies that have two working QPI links but otherwise do not run that great. But there are too many variables to conclude anything from your speed comparisons.

"it will be the first dual-socket, six-core processor from Intel": They don't know what they are talking about. Notice that the original specifically says that it is compatible with the X58 chipset (no dual socket) and that the 5500/5520 chipsets needed for dual core operation isn't listed. Look in the comment section where one poster mentioned that it won't be used in the Mac Pro because of the single QPI link.

Let me repeat: The Xeons have the same performance as the desktop socket 1366 chips at same number of cores and same frequency. You can pay a little extra for a 35xx Xeon and get ECC memory support (and rumors about better binning for overclocking) or a lot extra for the second QPI link and typically lower TDP. Notice how close your 6-core prices matches the present price of the 3.33GHz quad cores

i7 975 EE $990
W3580 $1090
W5590 $1690

This is simply Intel's standard pricing for their fastest processors. Stay far away from these if you want value for money. The best value for money right now is a single socket 920 (ideally at at least 3.5GHz) or a dual socket E5520 solution. Wait until they release a 6-core Xeon version that corresponds to the E5520, let us say a 2.4GHz version at $400-$500.

 

[Davidh373]

Fair enough. Thank you for your advice, this has been quite informative. We will see what intel does. This is the same advice my friend who built my computer gave me (without knowledge of the 6-core). I will probably get the 980X just to have the extra boost and use my current 920 in a cheaper setup I can build for around $500. So i'll have 2 computers to render fairly inexpensive, plus have the extra machine for my partner to use.

I'm planning on 4GB DDR3 1333

a Geforce 9800GTX (already owned)

1TB Caviar Green

Sony CD/DVD

600W PSU

Micro ATX Case

It's basic but cheap and it will be a lot of power for little money since I just have that 9800 in an old hp that my family uses (it was my workstation before the i7), and the i7.

My family can then put the Geforce 7300 and the wireless card back in since they don't game/ model at all.

 

[jaggerwild]

Sorry I had hopes EVGA would be able to enable it but no go, They do state that the board will run with only one supported CPU in the board for the original poster.