Dual DVI Video card wanted, NVidia vs ATi, which better? NVidia DVI issues? Low power comsumption desired

[DualMonitors]

Found this thread discussing the possible issues with Nvidia DVI output issues: http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview...atid=31&threadid=1497321&enterthread=y

Also, a knowledgeable fellow forum member advises against dual DVI NVidia cards on this thread: http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview...atid=31&threadid=1542224&enterthread=y

Do all Nvidia DVI output cards, including dual DVI cards, have DVI output quality issues? It's just hard for me to believe that a successful market leader in dual screen technology, NVidia, can make NO good DVI cards. I know of the Nvidia 5200 having issues, experienced it, but like all manufacturers, there are bound to be a lemon or two. Can one then say all Nvidia DVI cards have issues? Possible. Please opine!

Issue: I currently have a Dell 8200 w/low 250-watt power supply and am already using the card that came with my Dell, the NVIDIA GeForce4 Ti 4200 64MB DDR, clock speed 350MHz, AGP 4X. MAX resolution on DVI output is 1600 X 1200 @60 Hz; VGA 1920 X 1200 @ 75 Hz. There are issues with trying to remove NVidia drivers and load other drivers, requiring Driver Cleaners, which themselves cause issues, etc. See this: http://forums.us.dell.com/supportforums...e?board.id=dim_video&message.id=107254

Would appreciate fellow forum members' advice re: what are your experiences with Nvidia's DVI output quality? Especially vis-a-vis dual DVI output Nvidia cards, if anyone happens to have experience with them. I need low wattage usage video cards as my Dell only has a 250-watt power supply.

The desired LCD monitors to use with the new Nvidia or ATi card are: my current Samsung 213T 21.3" LCD as my secondary screen, the new Dell 24" widescreen 2405FPW LCD and use it at 1920X1200 as my main panel. Currently using the Samsung 21.3" on DVI @1600X1200 as my main screen, an NEC 19" LCD 1920NX on VGA @1280X1024 as my secondary screen.

The least amount of problems is desired in this video card upgrade, both from the KISS principle, as well as the fact that this Dell 8200 likely won't be kept too much longer as I'd like to try my hand at building my first PC with the PCI-express. Spending $140 on that California-made power supply specifically for Dell models is not a good use of funds, finding fans and other cooling devices for this Dell isn't such a good idea either, unless a low profile card slot fan. Dells are troublesome as they have proprietary sizing/holes/positions for their components.

Did try Matrox for a week, lousy technology, lousy tech support, unbelievably poor customer service. No ability to adjust any colors due to their license expiring with their previous provider of color adjustment software. Needless to say, I returned that card promptly, but did learn that uninstalling the Nvidia drivers CLEANLY and properly wasn't a 1-2-3 thing. It took driver cleaners and stuff, and the instructions to the driver cleaner software didn't conform to what was showing up on the screen, so it wasn't easy to use and accomplish properly at all, especially when you're not an expert. I can follow directions, but i'm not a technician.

Thus, the desired NEW video card to upgrade to is: dual DVI, "good" DVI signal (some say since it's a digital signal, there is no "good" vs "bad, it's yes or no, others differ, comments, please?), low power usage/low heat generation desired (only 250-watts power supply), prefer to be able to stick to the "unified" Nvidia drivers that i'm currently using, though i'm of course willing to switch to ATi should it become obvious that Nvidia's DVI outputs ALL have problems. I've only personally encountered issues with the Nvidia 5200 card very briefly, like 2 days, which I was forced to return, as I got flickering black screens every minute or two - I was even worried about that card damaging my two LCD panels!! Would it have damaged my LCD's?

What brands/models should I go for? the Gainward worries me due to their need for their proprietary ExperTool software to upgrade BIOS, which they virtually require! Gasp. When there's no need to, why be required to upgrade BIOS with all its inherent risks during the BIOS upgrade? The Gainward website almost says "required". Maybe they are eeking out the last few percent of performance, or maybe they really do need to update your BIOS during initial installation. Don't forget, if the card turns out to be undesirable and needs to be returned, how to get the BIOS back to where you started? BIG problems then!! Right? or at least very troublesome, time consuming problems then. So asking advice for which brands/models of video cards w/dual DVI output would be most useful.

With the card purchase done and installed, then I can order the Dell 24" widescreen 2405FPW LCD, and sell my NEC 1920NX LCD 19".

Many thanks.

PS: specs to my Dell 8200 are here: http://docs.us.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/dim8200/specs.htm#1102278
including the info on the AGP slot VOLTAGE specs.

 

[Peter]

I'll say it here again: NVidia's main chip has a DVI signal transmitter integrated, whose signal quality gets poor at high pixel frequencies. Yes the signal is digital - that doesn't mean it can't get bad enough to not arrive at the destination anymore. And that's exactly the symptom you'll get - picture disturbances from dot crawl to no picture at all. Many cards are limited to 140 MHz rather than the 165 they should, some even lower, as low as 112.

With single-DVI cards, card designers might choose to use a separate DVI transmitter chip to overcome that problem; however with dual-DVI cards, they have to use the integrated one AND a separate one for the 2nd channel.

ATi's integrated transmitter has no signal integrity problem all the way up to the 165 MHz the DVI standard asks for.

 

[DualMonitors]

Thanks again, Peter, for additionally clarifying this.

With all these issues with Nvidia's DVI output, how do they manage to maintain their "lead" position in video cards? in today's world, many are using LCD panels of higher and higher resolutions. the only answer i can think of is that dual DVI cards are such a small market that Nvidia's inability to make good/acceptable dual DVI cards does not erode their market leader position? Yet, many have commented on how Nvidia's dual monitor software has been finessed to be the market leader in the dual monitor area. I do recall that you wrote earlier, Peter, that for my limited uses, the ATi software will be fine.

It would seem to me that Nvidia would put a huge corporate effort to correct this DVI output issue?? almost everyone is now already owning an LCD or thinking of one, unless they have very specialized uses. If ATi can make good integrated DVI transmitters, what causes Nvidia to NOT be able to, i wonder? (wondering out loud)

By the way, Peter, since you're so expert at this, how much hassle would you anticipate me PROPERLY getting rid of the Nvidia drivers and related software and then loading up the ATi software plus drivers? apparently, one does not simply delete the Nvidia drivers, there's that whole driver deletion "protocol". ugh!

Please see the sticky threads at the top of this Dell forum just to get an idea of what Dell guys recommend doing...for some reason, i cannot locate their previous recommendation of using some Driver "Cleaner" software, which i had to use when i tried out the ill-fated Matrox dual dvi card: http://forums.us.dell.com/supportforums/board?board.id=dim_video

but i do recall explicitly that someone at the Dell forum insisted that it is essential to use a Driver Cleaner to proper rid the Nvidia drivers/software, yet, their instructions did not correlate with what i saw on the Driver Cleaning software screens, thereby causing hours of stomach acid, distress, and more time wasted.... ;(

thanks yet again for your kind patience with my issues.