[DSO] Evil Within locked to and 'designed for' 30fps

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toyota

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
12,957
1
0
That isn't what he was saying, just you are saying that. So lets move on already.
go back and read what he said. He said black bars and then he said I guess that's a way of reducing load. So yes that is what he said whether he meant to or not and that's what I commeted on. and even when we were going back and forth he still seem to be coming at it from that angle. at no point did he say what you said. he makes it pretty clear that he thinks it's less pixels just because there are black bars. even when I gave him the same scenario that I just gave you, he stuck to that line.
 

exar333

Diamond Member
Feb 7, 2004
8,518
8
91
I think we can all agree that forcing any specific resolution and limiting to 30fps is generally a bad idea.

I do get that some RTS games (online only) restrict resolution for 'fair play' SP should always allow a user to adjust it IMHO.
 

Pantlegz

Diamond Member
Jun 6, 2007
4,627
4
81
no you have it backwards. The black bars on your screen have nothing to do with how a game is demanding or not.again if anything it would be more demanding because your display more information of the game. Using your logic someone using a 5:4 ratio monitor would have a less demanding game than someone using a 16:9 screen even if running the same exact 21:9 scene. seriously think about what you're saying because it makes no sense.

The issue with this is you're just looking at AR and not pixel count. If you have a 16:9 monitor and those black bars cut 10% off the vertical your 1920x1080 is now 1920x972. Even if they keep the AR the same it's covering a smaller area so there are less pixels to fill. A 5" 1080p screen requires less resources than a 50" to hit the same framerate hence improving the performance by rendering in a smaller area.
 

toyota

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
12,957
1
0
The issue with this is you're just looking at AR and not pixel count. If you have a 16:9 monitor and those black bars cut 10% off the vertical your 1920x1080 is now 1920x972. Even if they keep the AR the same it's covering a smaller area so there are less pixels to fill. A 5" 1080p screen requires less resources than a 50" to hit the same framerate hence improving the performance by rendering in a smaller area.
sigh, AGAIN black bars are irrelevant in the context here. a 2560x1080 image on a 5:4 screen requires the SAME graphics power as that image on a 21:9 screen. yes I know that if you run 21:9 on a 1920x1080 screen that it will be less than 1920x1080,. in fact a precise 21:9 aspect ratio on 1920x1080 screen is 1920x810. I can however easily run 2560x1080 on any monitor if using custom resolution. but please for the love of god look at the context here though as ShintaiDK was acting like the black bars themselves were the reason for it being less load.
 
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exar333

Diamond Member
Feb 7, 2004
8,518
8
91
sigh, AGAIN black bars are irrelevant in the context here. a 2560x1080 image on a 5:4 screen requires the SAME graphics power as that image on a 21:9 screen. yes I know that if you run 21:9 on a 1920x1080 screen that it will be less than 1920x1080,. in fact a precise 21:9 aspect ratio on 1920x1080 screen is 1920x810. I can however easily run 2560x1080 on any monitor if using custom resolution. but please for the love of god look at the context here though as ShintaiDK was acting like the black bars themselves were the reason for it being less load.

Agree.

Pixels are pixels, right? The size of the pixels (ultimately the pixel density) is irrelevant to the power needed to drive it.

The bigger the black bars are on your display, the less horsepower required to drive the picture vs. your full screen. Obviously this is assuming you are running native resolution.
 

mindbomb

Senior member
May 30, 2013
363
0
0
In this case, they are going for a specific look. It's analogous to listening to a lo-fi album. They could have made it "better", but they were going for a certain aesthetic. There is nothing inherently wrong with that.
 
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escrow4

Diamond Member
Feb 4, 2013
3,339
122
106
People criticizing the consoles for not improving PC gaming, what a joke. Even Anand, on his review of the Xbox One said that it would take 18-24 months to see some of what the consoles can do. Personally, I'd say 3 years.

The PC Failure Race/Intel/NV fans don't want to see or understand that 8 x86 cores and GCN(Open CL, HSA, HW Audio) was the best thing to ever happen for consoles to push PC gaming forward. Who cares if 4 faster cores are better? 8+ OOE Multi-core/thread programming is the future, consoles being multi core pushes that move faster. How many games actually use 4 cores? 6? 8? 16?

Even Sony stated that the reason the PS4 has what it has, PC Tech, was to speed up development time, to make it easier to start.

But just because its general PC hardware, it doesn't mean that the world is full of developers who know anything(low level) about it. That takes years and many people.


And if its designed for 30 FPS, I expect low input lag.

Yes, the best thing EVAR was to to stick 8 Atom equivalent cores into a box matched to a GPU that is held back by said cores and make PC development a pain in the ass, because PCs are not APUs and do not have a fat pool of unified memory. Ooops. That is indeed the future!
 

RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
19,458
765
126
Yes, the best thing EVAR was to to stick 8 Atom equivalent cores into a box matched to a GPU that is held back by said cores and make PC development a pain in the ass, because PCs are not APUs and do not have a fat pool of unified memory. Ooops. That is indeed the future!

That's not the best. They could have waited 1 more year to faster CPU/GPU or put in higher TDP parts and priced consoles more. However, NO ONE on the forums can come up with a better alternative at $399 PS4 MSRP. 1152 shaders 7870 is nearly as fast as 7970M/8970M/290M, basically AMD's flagship mobile GPU at 100W or less TDP. Based on how PS4 was designed, nothing precluded the engineers from pairing that CPU in standalone from with an NV GPU. Alternatively, they could have done a console with an Intel CPU and NV GPU. Why haven't they? Because these components are wayyyy too expensive. You think NV would sell Sony a mobile GPU as fast as a 7970M for a good price? Wishful thinking. We'd get an even slower part or Sony would have needed to price the console at $499-599. And let's not even pretend that Intel CPUs are cheap.

Also, based on massive losses of Xbox division and PS3, it's obvious that putting high end parts into an expensive console doesn't necessarily make you profits. PS3 was a disaster financially as the first 3-4 years Sony was probably just making up with game sales the huge hardware losses incurred by selling an $800 launch PS3 at $599. There is also some stat that something like 50% of all original 360s failed over time. I believe it cost MS hundreds of millions if not billions to replace those failed consoles. That's why MS went really conservative with total power usage / heat of XB1.

So ya, it's easy to criticize the low end hardware in a $400 box but when someone is asked to make a better console for November 2013 at that price, they have no answer.

Games like Ryse Son of Rome show that consoles can produce amazing graphics despite low end hardware due to optimizations. Just because Evil Within is locked at 30 FPS and looks average doesn't mean that Sony's or MS next gen games won't blow this game away in the next 5 years. Just compare the graphics of PS3/360's 1-2 year old games from launch vs. the Last of Us and Uncharted 3 and Gears of War 3. We have not seen what PS4 is capable of in the hands of its 1st party developers like Naughty Dog. Believe me once we see cross platform console games 4-5 years from now, cards like 980 will choke.

And really I hate to say it but I understand the developer's point of view. FIFA 2015 sold 5 million on consoles in the first week, only 30,000 of those were PC. Most developers only release PC games because they already have the console version designed in the PC. If it wasn't for consoles, games like AC, Far Cry, sports games would have trouble existing since they don't sell well enough on the PC alone to recoup their development and marketing costs.

P.S. Oh and the Cell in PS3 was an overpriced piece of garbage. Despite the hype, it was the 360 that consistently had better performing / better looking cross platform games. It requires a vast amount of programmer and financial resources to extract maximum performance from the Cell to outperform the 360. This shows that expensive custom made CPU have also shown to be a failure for consoles. At least now with x86, PS5/XB2 should be backwards compatible.
 
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