DSLR-A100K vs. K10D

[RSMemphis]

Hi,

I am currently looking for a DSLR camera, mostly for better quality in low-light environments, but both my wife and I are very much into photography and want to learn how to take good pictures with a good camera.

We are looking at the Sony A100K and the Pentax K10D, because:

* Both feature CCD stabilisation.
* Good price/performance ratio.

We like the Sony, because:
* Better jpg quality
* Cheaper lenses (old Minolta work)
* Easier to use?
* get nice pack with tripod for the same price as the Pentax

We like the Pentax, because:
* Better raw quality?
* Better stabilization?
* Secure Digital media

Currently, I am leaning towards the Sony.
We would appreciate any insights in what we may have overlooked or if your opinion differs.

One last point, looking at flickr images of both cameras, the Pentax comes off as much less noisy - is that a user or camera difference?

Thank you for your help

RS

 

[JDub02]

After a month or so of researching, I just purchased a dSLR. Both of those cameras were on my list. Each will have it's pros and cons, but you really can't go wrong with either. The "entry level" dSLR market is very competetive, IMO. Each one stands out in certain areas, but I didn't find that one really outdid the others across the board. Just to note, if I'm remembering right, the white balance on the Pentax requires some finesse. Check various review sites.

The Sony A100 was my choice when I was shopping. I liked the feel and built in image stabilization. My wife liked the Nikon D40.


We went with the D40. FWIW, Nikon has a special till the end of the year. $100 off a lens with a camera. Not sure if AT Hot Deals has this posted .. if not, check fat wallet. I got the D40 with kit lens, 55-200 image stablized lens, couple misc. freebies (strap, bag, UV filter) for under $600 shipped from Amazon.

 

[kalster]

K10d has more features I think, weather sealing, better AF from what I understand, its JPEG quality gets a bad rep too, changing to bright mode in menu fixes that easily. also it has dual wheels which is customizable so it can be programmed to do certain things in diff modes (Tv Av, ISO sensitivity), pentax has a good selection of primes as well, image stablization works in all the primes (even screw mount m42) , you have to set the focal length in the menu for the image stabilization to work with old manul lenses. another cool feature is extended bracketing (sharpness, white balance, contrast) and also a way to do multi exposure (simplistic in camera HDR), the viewfinder is great too (pentaprism in pentax vs pentamirror in sony)

 

[Zenmervolt]

Not sure about the Pentax having better RAW quality. If you mean better high-ISO, then I'll agree, but an ISO 100-400 RAW file from either camera will be equal. To be honest, I almost never shoot above ISO 200, so it's not an issue to me, but it can be for some people. If you aren't going to be blowing the photos up to large sizes though even the A100 should be fine at higher ISOs.

Image stabilization is really equal as well.

If you really want low-light quality with in-body stabilization and can afford a little extra, I can't imagine anyone regretting the Sony A700 that just came out. It is much superior to the A100 in terms of high-ISO noise.

That said, everything here: http://flickr.com/photos/picvolt/ was taken with the A100. I don't think they're too noisy.

In the end though, the best camera is the one that feels best in your hands. I chose the A100 because I liked the way it handled the best. The other cameras I tried just didn't feel right. Obviously, this is something that differes for everyone, so handle both and make your choice. There aren't any "dud" cameras on the market right now.

ZV

 

[ElFenix]

minolta A lenses are cheaper than pentax lenses?

edit: and unless you are sitting on a pile of SD cards, Pentax-SD isn't really an advantage over Sony-CF. CF cards are generally a little less expensive in my experience, and available in larger sizes (though i suggest several smaller cards rather than one big one, all eggs in one basket consideration)

 

[magomago]

I don't think you can say the "raw quality" is better. The quality of the actual image is probably affected moreso by the actual raw converter...if you get a K10D, I highly reccomend you shoot in raw as its a pretty suprising difference. True some people mentioned putting it on "bright", but I still prefer raw especially when it comes to selecting the white balance

Also - note that a lot of the older Pentax glass is manual focus. Beautiful lenses, but manual focus. Also - Pentax has been pretty successful with the K10/100D such that I've read the prices for older glass has gone up. I honestly have no first hand since I came to Pentax during the boom, but apparantly prices are simply not as "cheap" as it maybe made out to seen. of course, i have no idea to the cost of old minolta class, and whether or not it is auto focus...

that said the K10D is a great camera. If you shoot a lot in low light you MIGHT want the K100D instead because of less noise at higher iso settings due to substancially less pixels on the same sensor size (6 million on APS vs 10 million on the same size). But - the K100D hunts a LOt more in low light than the K10D does. The AF system is better for sure. And secondly, you lose a lot features from the K10D which you might not be able to compromise.

I hope it didn't sound like I knocked pentax too much. I own a 100D and frequent lots of plces with pentax shooters so I can more freely speak. As for Sony...I really have no idea although I'm sure its also a wonderful camera =)

Try to get your hands on both and play with them. Try to see which feels more comfortable, or which menus you enjoy more.

 

[RSMemphis]

Thank you everyone for the replies.
A lot of the "points" were put with question marks for a reason. I just did not know, but wanted to generate a reaction, which worked.
ElFenix - Pentax lenses (except for manual focus) did go up in price quite a bit, a bit more than Minolta AF (now A mount) lenses.

Zemmervolt - Nice pictures, thank you for sharing. Your close-up shots have a lot less noise than when you search flickr for A-100 pictures. The backdrop on the butterfly pictures is beautifully noise-less. I did read that people generally favored the anti-shake of the Sony, because it gives an indication on how much you shake. One problem I have with my point and shoot is that pictures sometimes look sharp in the on-screen preview, and then look noisy when seen on the computer screen.

I am actually not sure if I mind manual focus. I would have to try that again. Usiing those, a Pentax would be very helpful.

I did some more reading, and the Pentax does allow for easier image adjustments. I was starting to favor the Sony, but I may have to backtrack on it. And, yes, the Sony A700 is very nice, but a bit out of my price range. I'd rather get one or two nice prime lenses.

 

[Heidfirst]

The good news is that there are no bad DSLRs atm so whatever that you get the photographer is nore likely to be the limiting factor than the camera.
As the others have said handling is probably more important than anything else & you are in the lucky position of not having previous experience & having to untrain yourself.

The A100 is reckoned to produce the most detailed images of the 10Mp brigade at low ISO (e.g. it'll outperform the Nikon D80) but at the cost of higher noise at higher ISO.
It's a trade-off in the design process as the 2 are related.

The Sony (ex-Minolta) in-body stabilisation is pretty much acknowledged as being the best performing (not really surprising as it's been around longer so better developed) in-body stabilisation.

The A100 is due for replacement in early the Spring though with pre-production models already on trial in the field - rumour suggests that the replacement will share a lot of technology with the A700 but be despecced in terms of features & build quality (i.e. what Canon & Nikon do too).

The K10D is a great body but there are quite a lot of posts on photography forums about poor AF performance with it & I've also seen some more unusually about the bodies cracking. It's also selling a lot cheaper now than I'm sure that Pentax originally intended it too.

Whilst neither currently has a system to rival either Canon or Nikon for most (non-professional) people what is available is more than enough especially when you consider the 3rd party manufacturers like Sigma & Tamron.
You have to consider the future of the system though - we know that by the end of next year that Sony will have at least 3 DSLR bodies none of which will be older than a year & there are strong rumours of a 4th & even a 5th plus there are more lenses on the way.
Sony appear to be putting resources behind the system to grow their market share at least into being undisputed 3rd in the market.

Pentax supposedly have an announcement at the end of January but they are in the process of being acquired/merging with Hoya & there is some suspicion that Hoya are more interested in their medical imaging side & may sell off the camera division - possibly to Samsung who Pentax already work with (it's woryh pointing out that if you do decide that you prefer the K10D sometimes you can get a better deal on the Samsung based on it than the K10D itself).

 

[magomago]

RSMemphis: If you go primes - then Pentax has potentially one of the best prime line ups out there and the glass is absolutely beautiful. You can check out the current roadmap here for DA (digital) lenses http://www.digital.pentax.co.jp/en/lens/roadmap.pdf

Also - I HIGHLY suggest you never use the image preview for anything more than a) you got the right composition you wanted and b) you check the histogram. Its not the best use to try to determine very slight blur. You really need to load the photos to decide that.

Heidfirst - I haven't seen anything about the bodys cracking. I know that in the past (not sure if its still an issue now?? anyone got a K10D and battery grip who can tell us?) using the battery grip produced vertical banding on the K10D. As for whether or not Pentax will be here in a year...we'll find out. I would hope they are. There are so many rumors its hard to believe what is going on. As for Samsung...it isn't as much "Working" with them as much as take the K10D -- called it the GX10 and then go completely silent on everything else

But you definitely hit the nail when you said there are no bad DSLRs....very very true!

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: RSMemphis
Zemmervolt - Nice pictures, thank you for sharing. Your close-up shots have a lot less noise than when you search flickr for A-100 pictures. The backdrop on the butterfly pictures is beautifully noise-less. I did read that people generally favored the anti-shake of the Sony, because it gives an indication on how much you shake. One problem I have with my point and shoot is that pictures sometimes look sharp in the on-screen preview, and then look noisy when seen on the computer screen.

Mind you, none of the shots I have on Flickr are above ISO 400. My own style just doesn't require high ISO very often.

I'm still not sure what you mean by the Pentax "allowing easier image adjustments". If you process the RAW file in Photoshop, both cameras have exactly the same available adjustments and the UI is identical. If you're talking about the included RAW software from Pentax being better than Sony's, I can't really comment there since I use Photoshop instead. Overall, I've found Photoshop to be more convenient than any bundled software that I've used though.

ZV

 

[kalster]

i think pentax has the replacements coming up in jan (K20d and k200d), i think hoya would be foolish to decrease focus on the dslr market, also the prime lineup they have is some of the best primes, specially the limited primes and the legendary takumar's. if you want to get into the older primes pentax has an edge coz its viewfinder is big and bright,

 

[RSMemphis]

Ok, thanks for all the advice. We decided that it would really be best to look at the two options and decide partly based on that.
Zenmervolt, I did mean that it seems easier to set ISO/Shutterspeed/Aperture in the Pentax. But we do have to look at that in person, I guess.

Image stabilization drives me towards Sony, lower ISO 800 noise to the Pentax.

We cannot really wait until next year, even though that would probably the best option.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: RSMemphis
Zenmervolt, I did mean that it seems easier to set ISO/Shutterspeed/Aperture in the Pentax. But we do have to look at that in person, I guess.

Ahh. That I can understand.

What I do with my A100, is leave the control dial on the ISO setting so that the control button always accesses ISO when I'm shooting. That gives me a dedicated ISO button, and since I shoot Aperture-Priority I only have to adjust aperture and the camera selects shutter speed. But again, that's because that works well for my own shooting style. I started out on older film cameras that only offered aperture-priority, and I don't change focus or metering modes often, so I have no need to change the control dial's setting. There's a very good chance that what works perfectly for me will not work perfectly for you.

Definitely go out and handle both cameras. If the Pentax feels better and is easier for you to work with, buy it. If the A100 feels better, then buy it instead.

I probably come off as leaning towards the A100, and I don't mean to. I like my A100, that's certain, but I like it because it fits me, and you are not me, so it may not fit you. In terms of image quality out of the camera, I don't think there's any significant difference between the two when shooting RAW. Pentax is a great company with a history of excellent lenses, and you certainly cannot go "wrong" right now when choosing a DSLR.

ZV

 

[soydios]

Just to echo what others have said, go out and try the cameras. I use Nikon, and anything other than that is impossible for me to use in the same aggressive shooting style that I use with my D50 (constantly changing settings to get the perfect picture). Canon users feel the same way about Nikon cameras. It's been going on for fifty years.

Nikon and Canon offer an unmatched upgrade path, while Sony and Pentax offer a better introductory package with fewer quality upgrades. If you don't foresee yourself upgrading lenses and using all the accessories in the Nikon and Canon families, I would go with Sony or Pentax. Each offers their own unique advantages and shortcomings, so go out and feel the cameras in your hand to decide. Both are quality products.

 

[RSMemphis]

The trying out in the store was not very satisfying. They did have both, but the Pentax was not charged, and so I could not play around with it very much. They both felt good in the hand. I found some of the knobs and dials on the pentax to be difficult to use, but love the second display. The Sony way of having the ISO etc dial with button, and then having to adjust with the menu buttons seems annoying. On the Pentax I wish the raw button was a WB button.

I think we will go with the K10D...

 

[dug777]

I was in exactly the same place early this year, trying to decide between these two cameras, and I ended up with a D80.

Couldn't be happier

 

[Heidfirst]

Originally posted by: RSMemphis
The Sony way of having the ISO etc dial with button, and then having to adjust with the menu buttons seems annoying.

I may be wrong but I can't see a huge difference between doing this on the Pentax & Sony.
On the Pentax you hit the Fn button, choose ISO & then adjust with the 4 way controller.
On the Sony you choose ISO, hit the Fn button & adjust using either the control dial or the 4-way controller.

In other words whilst they differ in order the basic process is identical?

 

[soydios]

I like how Nikons change settings: hold down the button, rotate the thumbwheel. Very fast, simple, and intuitive.

 

[kalster]

Originally posted by: Heidfirst

Originally posted by: RSMemphis
The Sony way of having the ISO etc dial with button, and then having to adjust with the menu buttons seems annoying.

I may be wrong but I can't see a huge difference between doing this on the Pentax & Sony.
On the Pentax you hit the Fn button, choose ISO & then adjust with the 4 way controller.
On the Sony you choose ISO, hit the Fn button & adjust using either the control dial or the 4-way controller.

In other words whilst they differ in order the basic process is identical?

on the k1d0 you can allocate the 1 of the wheels to change ISO which is what I do, very convenient , you get finer control too (100->125->150, 200,220) etc