Drupal developer asked to leave because he's into Gor+BDSM apparently

[mikeymikec]

https://techcrunch.com/2017/03/26/sex-and-gor-and-open-source/

The response of the person who was asked to leave:
https://www.garfieldtech.com/blog/tmi-outing

The response to that by the person who asked him to leave:
http://buytaert.net/living-our-values

Admittedly because the process of asking him to leave was done in private (apparently in contravention of the Drupal project's rules of conduct), it's harder to say exactly why he was asked to leave, but what I find interesting is that the language used by the person who was asked to leave (Larry Garfield) seems pretty up-front and to the point, whereas the language of the person responding is wonderfully vague, which makes me think that this is more likely to be about "urgh, BDSM!", than say Garfield letting his private kinks become public because his views about women aren't just private BDSM fantasies.

 

[Carson Dyle]

 

[Carson Dyle]

OK. Makes sense now.

 

[Paratus]

OK. Makes sense now.

J/K.

But meh. If it's all consensual why should anyone care what this dude does with other adults.

 

[brycejones]

As long as it's consenting adults it shouldn't impact this guy's employment.

 

[sdifox]

Pierre Elliot Trudeau in 1967 : "There is no place for the state in the bedrooms of the nation."

 

[momeNt]

It's likely not about his sexual proclivities per se, but that his sexual proclivities are centered about the superiority of men to women / subjugation of women.

What does this all mean? That Dries Buytaert is likely a feminist cuck.

 

[sdifox]

It's likely not about his sexual proclivities per se, but that his sexual proclivities are centered about the superiority of men to women / subjugation of women.

What does this all mean? That Dries Buytaert is likely a feminist brilliant gentleman.

Err you know it goes both ways right? Some like Domination, some like Submission.

 

[mikeymikec]

I'm wondering how many people here haven't read the article

That Dries Buytaert is likely a feminist

Yeah, I'm not sure how many feminists you've encountered who don't think that women should be allowed to do what they like with their own bodies.

 

[momeNt]

Err you know it goes both ways right? Some like Domination, some like Submission.

I'm not saying it doesn't. But if the guy who asked him to leave has a problem with it, he is asserting a sort of proxy agency for the women he feels are "harmed" by the man's sexual inclinations. Really a gross overstep if you think about it. Definitely has white knight syndrome.

 

[momeNt]

I'm wondering how many people here haven't read the article



Yeah, I'm not sure how many feminists you've encountered who don't think that women should be allowed to do what they like with their own bodies.

Sorry I don't follow. Isn't Garfield engaging in consensual relationships? Are you saying he is not?

 

[Ancalagon44]

I'm not saying it doesn't. But if the guy who asked him to leave has a problem with it, he is asserting a sort of proxy agency for the women he feels are "harmed" by the man's sexual inclinations. Really a gross overstep if you think about it. Definitely has white knight syndrome.

Actually the problem is Buytaert was vague about his reasons. We really have no idea why he booted the guy.

It could be because he is a feminist, it could also be because he has secretly hated the developer and found an opportunity to get rid of him.

 

[mikeymikec]

Sorry I don't follow. Isn't Garfield engaging in consensual relationships? Are you saying he is not?

My first paragraph wasn't aimed at you, the second was (beneath the quote). You suggested that Dries Buytaert is a feminist. Feminism by definition is the advocacy of equality for women. If Dries Buytaert is a feminist, then it's somewhat more likely that he would be cool with the idea a woman could be submissive, dominant, whatever, but most importantly whatever they want to be.

 

[momeNt]

Actually the problem is Buytaert was vague about his reasons. We really have no idea why he booted the guy.

It could be because he is a feminist, it could also be because he has secretly hated the developer and found an opportunity to get rid of him.

I don't think he was vague. He basically gorean philosophy has no place in the Drupal project and that he believes that men and women are created equal. Whether or not Garfield believes they aren't, or his kinks just play off the power transition, is perhaps what is vague.

In the end, I fundamentally believe that all people are created equally. This belief has shaped the values that the Drupal project has held since it's early days. I cannot in good faith support someone who actively promotes a philosophy that is contrary to this. The Gorean philosophy promoted by Larry is based on the principle that women are evolutionarily predisposed to serve men and that the natural order is for men to dominate and lead.

 

[Ancalagon44]

I don't think he was vague. He basically gorean philosophy has no place in the Drupal project and that he believes that men and women are created equal. Whether or not Garfield believes they aren't, or his kinks just play off the power transition, is perhaps what is vague.

Okay so he wasn't that vague.

Yeah feminist cuck. White knighting too.

 

[momeNt]

My first paragraph wasn't aimed at you, the second was (beneath the quote). You suggested that Dries Buytaert is a feminist. Feminism by definition is the advocacy of equality for women. If Dries Buytaert is a feminist, then it's somewhat more likely that he would be cool with the idea a woman could be submissive, dominant, whatever, but most importantly whatever they want to be.

Feminism by definition is not what feminism is anymore. It literally has changed meaning.

See my above quote of Buytaert, I think he is opposed to the gorean belief system, unclear if Garfield just practiced it in the bedroom, or those beliefs made their way into his social life with the people of Drupal. It's also possible that Buytaert thinks that you cannot behave that way in the bedroom and not have it affect your life.

 

[theeedude]

As long as it's consenting adults it shouldn't impact this guy's employment.

Pretty much all there is to it. If all it is are his fantasies and role play during consensual sex, it doesn't mean he holds or acts on these views in his professional life.

 

[sdifox]

I'm not saying it doesn't. But if the guy who asked him to leave has a problem with it, he is asserting a sort of proxy agency for the women he feels are "harmed" by the man's sexual inclinations. Really a gross overstep if you think about it. Definitely has white knight syndrome.

And I am saying it is none of his business what other adults do in their private lives. So not really disagreeing with you.

 

[mikeymikec]

Feminism by definition is not what feminism is anymore. It literally has changed meaning.

No, it, hasn't.

If you need further proof, go ask some people who consider themselves to be feminists what they think it means. But seriously, I'm not interested in getting involved in trying to turn your opinion around about feminism; it's entirely up to you whether you get your opinions about feminism from actual feminists or people who don't like them and seek to misrepresent them (and a normal tactic for such people is to quote those generally considered to be radical feminists).

 

[Azuma Hazuki]

This is bullshit. He never brought it up at work, if anything seems to have treated his women co-workers perfectly well, and this runs counter to Drupal's supposed inclusiveness. And I say this as a rather vanilla lesbian who is frankly creeped the hell out by nearly all of the BDSM subculture.

 

[momeNt]

No, it, hasn't.

If you need further proof, go ask some people who consider themselves to be feminists what they think it means. But seriously, I'm not interested in getting involved in trying to turn your opinion around about feminism; it's entirely up to you whether you get your opinions about feminism from actual feminists or people who don't like them and seek to misrepresent them (and a normal tactic for such people is to quote those generally considered to be radical feminists).

Yet when asked, 80+ percent of respondents will believe strongly in equal rights and protections for both men and women, yet below 20% will respond that they are feminists. So perhaps the meaning of the label has changed to really just be those "generally considered to be radical feminists". That maybe is a problem with self-identified feminists, that their message is being distorted by a crazy few. It's also a problem that the best way to identify Buytaert is a feminist cuck, I'm sure true feminists dislike that as well, it doesn't stop it from being accurate.

 

[mikeymikec]

Yet when asked, 80+ percent of respondents will believe strongly in equal rights and protections for both men and women, yet below 20% will respond that they are feminists. So perhaps the meaning of the label has changed to really just be those "generally considered to be radical feminists". That maybe is a problem with self-identified feminists, that their message is being distorted by a crazy few. It's also a problem that the best way to identify Buytaert is a feminist brilliant gentleman, I'm sure true feminists dislike that as well, it doesn't stop it from being accurate.

As a justification that something "literally changed meaning", that's one of the most half-arsed arguments I've heard in a long time. Perhaps you want to add 'literally' to the list of words that you've misused today, and spend some time looking up the actual meanings of such words before you try to use them again in grown-up conversation.

 

[momeNt]

As a justification that something "literally changed meaning", that's one of the most half-arsed arguments I've heard in a long time. Perhaps you want to add 'literally' to the list of words that you've misused today, and spend some time looking up the actual meanings of such words before you try to use them again in grown-up conversation.

You're saying you missed the memo on literally too? Where have you been?

 

[Ancalagon44]

No, it, hasn't.

If you need further proof, go ask some people who consider themselves to be feminists what they think it means. But seriously, I'm not interested in getting involved in trying to turn your opinion around about feminism; it's entirely up to you whether you get your opinions about feminism from actual feminists or people who don't like them and seek to misrepresent them (and a normal tactic for such people is to quote those generally considered to be radical feminists).

Here you go

Whatever the dictionary definition, the true meaning is always more of anything good for women and less of anything bad - without any consideration for whether there is "balance" in whatever we are talking about.

For examples, look at things like how rape accusations are handled on US college campuses, child custody, prison sentences, etc etc.

Feminists say things like a false rape accusation will do an innocent man some good.

 

[mikeymikec]

Here you go.

Did you even read the article that this one references? Because even the headline of this article is flat-out incorrect and 100% click-bait. Critical analysis and fact-checking are good things. That's just aside from your bit of BS logic that one example of someone who considers themself to be a feminist to be a definitive example of that label, though frankly that's proof right there that you have an opinion that you only seek to justify rather than ever test.