Drone Drone Drone Americans.....

[unokitty]

What could possibly go wrong?

Besides look at all the wars that Obama has won with his drones...

Uno

 

[rudeguy]

Sorry if I was coming across too strong.

I think the assumption is at some point if you are with a known terrorist and you get killed by a drone strike on house/vehicle/tent whatever then tough s$%t. However that is a much bigger leap to say, we are not sure where he is but we know he is in this village, lets just level the entire village. I also assume during Clinton's presidency that we didn't have the level of sophisticated armed drones we have now. It was probably call in a tomahawk strike and the strike planners were like, the entire town will need to be leveled. It isn't like now where we can pin-point down to a specific vehicle and put a Hellfire into that specific car.

Yea I'm sure we have much better technology nkw. But let's use some of that technology to confirm that we aren't killing people we don't want to.

If these people were in Iraq or Afghanistan, riding in a marked enemy vehicle, bow them the fuck up. But if that isn't the case, they need due process.

It's a shit situation. My first instinct is to say good riddance. But the logical side of me says there is no way we can legally do that.

 

[Angry Irishman]

So if we have a terrorist overseas that is also a US citizen. He is up to no good and killing people, locals and plotting actively to kill US citizens.

You have a shot to kill him with a drone strike that will just kill him and his immediate terrorist companions. You cannot get a SF team into the area with a high degree chance of success to extract him.

A- Do you kill the US citizen with a drone strike?

B- Hope he surrenders so you can put him on trial in US court?

I guess we just ignore the Constitution by choice A. No trial just kill him and apparently other citizens who weren't planned for.

The terrorists have won.

 

[cirrrocco]

No it isn't that simple. If a US citizen in Yemen and I am travelling in a vehicle with a known senior level terrorist and the vehicle gets destroyed by a Hellfire and I am killed. Sorry, I am not going to get worked up about that.

However if a US citizen in Pakistan and travelling with my family with no known terrorist ties and a US drone strike destroys the vehicle and kills the US citizen then I have concerns.

Do you see the difference????? Make sure you read carefully.

so next time the CIA meets the good taliban for negotiations, if India fires a hellfire and kills the CIA reps, it is ok?


let's say US soldiers training soldiers in some XYZ dictatorship and the people bomb the camp and US soldiers die, it is ok?

Let's say some US civs are helping out a camp harboring refugees and there are a couple of terrorists in there. the govt launches a hellfire and takes out the terrorists and also takes out the civs, you would be ok with that?

 

[pcgeek11]

If you lay down with dogs you get fleas.

Hang out with terrorist you get dead.

Pretty fucking simple if you ask me. As much as I hate taking up for Obama or Holder. Bastards.

 

[Victorian Gray]

But it's a free country with transparency.....

If the story is credible this is horrible and a step way out of bounds basically murdering American citizens in not such a surgical manner as described.

http://www.wired.com/2013/05/4-americans-drone/

2012 interview with then white house press secretary Robert Gibbs:

"ADAMSON: ...It's an American citizen that is being targeted without due process, without trial. And, he's underage. He's a minor.

GIBBS: I would suggest that you should have a far more responsible father if they are truly concerned about the well being of their children. I don't think becoming an al Qaeda jihadist terrorist is the best way to go about doing your business."

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics...the-killing-of-a-16-year-old-american/264028/

 

[Brovane]

I guess we just ignore the Constitution by choice A. No trial just kill him and apparently other citizens who weren't planned for.

The terrorists have won.

So you can take up arms against the US and not fear retribution except for a SF grab team?

What I would like to see happen is this.

The suspected terrorist is formally charged by the US Attorney General. The suspected terrorist is given a chance to surrender to US authorities for trial. If the terrorist chooses not to surrender a trial is held in absentia, it is assumed he has waved his rights to appear at the trial if he chooses not to surrender. Depending on outcome of that trial would then depend on if a kill order could be issued.

 

[Brovane]

so next time the CIA meets the good taliban for negotiations, if India fires a hellfire and kills the CIA reps, it is ok?

If the CIA is negotiating with Taliban and they have not advertised the time/place etc. to any other Allies with active air assets in theater then their has been a critical breakdown in communication. The Air Controller's are responsible for making sure they know the whereabouts of any active friendly forces in the area. If India came into the area of operations and did a airstrike with Air Controller authorization, then yes their would be a problem and harsh language would be used.

let's say US soldiers training soldiers in some XYZ dictatorship and the people bomb the camp and US soldiers die, it is ok?

It would be ok once the USAF hit back at the country that bombed US forces.

Let's say some US civs are helping out a camp harboring refugees and there are a couple of terrorists in there. the govt launches a hellfire and takes out the terrorists and also takes out the civs, you would be ok with that?

Where the US civilians warned that they would be placing themselves in danger by going to the refugee camp in said country?

 

[schmuckley]

What country were these "Americans" in again? Thought so..

 

[JumBie]

You are insane.

And a moron.

You should not breed.

People like you resort to ad hominems when you come to realize that someone has not only outsmarted you but also put you in a position where your beliefs are compromised. Why not come back with a sensible rebuttal instead of calling someone names.

 

[ElFenix]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQv0_1X5Ua8

 

[rudeguy]

People like you resort to ad hominems when you come to realize that someone has not only outsmarted you but also put you in a position where your beliefs are compromised. Why not come back with a sensible rebuttal instead of calling someone names.

Probably because he went off on that rant throwing personal attacks at me. And what did I do? I posted the text of the article so people could read it without clicking.

I'm such a jackass.

 

[BoberFett]

This administration is very transparent, when compared with the last administration.
Water-boarding, rendition, false intelligence used to go to war, paid hacks to go on tv news shows, etc, etc.....
I have no problem with drone strikes. Don't want to be hit with a drone strike, don't hang around with terrorists.
Drone strikes are not equivalent to a full-scale war, and don't produce tens of thousands of innocent victims.

Over the top sentence deleted.

Anything goes as long as Obama does it. Because liberal.

You were just recently infracted for the same thing. Take some time off to think about it.
admin allisolm

 

[marincounty]

Over the line remark deleted.

Anything goes as long as Obama does it. Because liberal.

Over the top response deleted.
I don't even like Obama you dumb bastard.
But it is his job to keep the country safe and he actually has done a good job keeping us safe from terrorist attacks, something his Republican predecessor was unable to do despite being warned about terrorists flying planes into buildings.

 

[Darwin333]

People bitch so much about this crap. I'll tell you what (targets of smart bombs) you're fucking lucky it's not ww2 and we're not carpet bombing your city. People gonna die. Wa.

We are not at war so why do we have to do the killing?

Call me crazy for not wanting my country to be killing people willy nilly while not at war nor under serious threat of war.

 

[pcgeek11]

We are not at war so why do we have to do the killing?

Call me crazy for not wanting my country to be killing people willy nilly while not at war nor under serious threat of war.

But you are at war and direct threat of war.

Your problem is your refusal to admit that we are at war with islamic terrorist and radical muslims.

 

[Moonbeam]

Transparency and the rule of law are things the CBD would oppose with horror if they were to actually appear. Fortunately for conservatives, Obama is also a right wing authoritarian whose only real flaw is that he carries the Democrat label. So while they curse and swear at his hypocrisy, their peacock strutting around displays of mock anguish pale in comparison to what it would be if he weren't. For the conservative brain dead, national security should never be an open book. And ion whose book would it be?

 

[Darwin333]

But you are at war and direct threat of war.

Your problem is your refusal to admit that we are at war with islamic terrorist and radical muslims.

What war??? The only Americans I see dying are the ones we send over there to fuck with them.

 

[pcgeek11]

What war??? The only Americans I see dying are the ones we send over there to fuck with them.

Oh. So you didn't see all of those people jumping out of the windows in the world trade center buildings after those Islamic terrorist flew two planes into them? Or all of those bodies they dug out of the rubble? Thousands we are talking, innocent men and women. How about the reporters and aid workers getting their heads chopped off? I suppose you never heard about those either. How about the Christians in Iraq that were burned alive? Or the children?

It isn't the US against the Islamic Terrorist. It is the Islamic Terrorist against the rest of the world.

Really! You are slow.

 

[unokitty]

Obama To Sell Armed Drones To More Countries

This loosening of export rules benefits General Atomics, maker of the Predator and Reaper drones, said Roman Schweizer, an aerospace and defense policy analyst with Guggenheim Securities, in a note to investors.

More armed drones mean that more people will die. But if you understand the political reality, you know that drone manufacturers like General Atomics didn't spend 6 million dollars on campaign contributions and 30 million dollars on lobbying to help the little guy.

But hey, there is an election coming up, and how can you expect politicians to get campaign contributions if they don't let the defense industry peddle their killing machines?

Uno

 

[Darwin333]

Oh. So you didn't see all of those people jumping out of the windows in the world trade center buildings after those Islamic terrorist flew two planes into them? Or all of those bodies they dug out of the rubble? Thousands we are talking, innocent men and women. How about the reporters and aid workers getting their heads chopped off? I suppose you never heard about those either. How about the Christians in Iraq that were burned alive? Or the children?

It isn't the US against the Islamic Terrorist. It is the Islamic Terrorist against the rest of the world.

Really! You are slow.

Yeah and we blew the everyloving shit out of 2 countries for that at a cost of well over a trillion dollars and lost a bunch of US military forces to avenge something that the ingenious use of a deadbolt lock prevents from ever happening again. So we got our pound of flesh.

As of today I am more likely to be killed by lightning than by a terrorist. Call me crazy to not put it on the tippity top of my "shit to be scared of list".

FFS, how long does a single event, while horrific, get to be an excuse to be in perpetual combat in multiple nations? Like I said, the only US citizens that are being killed by terrorists today are the ones we are putting in harms way to protect us from something that is less dangerous than our own bathtubs.

So no, I am not slow. I am quite rational and I don't think it's rational to be spending the kind of money we are to be in perpetual combat against an ideology that we will never be able to fully eliminate and can be argued that we are making worse. You can go back to hiding under your bed from the scary terrorists, personally I'm not worried about them getting me.

 

[Darwin333]

Obama To Sell Armed Drones To More Countries

More armed drones mean that more people will die. But if you understand the political reality, you know that drone manufacturers like General Atomics didn't spend 6 million dollars on campaign contributions and 30 million dollars on lobbying to help the little guy.

But hey, there is an election coming up, and how can you expect politicians to get campaign contributions if they don't let the defense industry peddle their killing machines?

Uno

Drones aren't all that hard to make anymore. I actually made one for under $200, granted it doesn't fire missiles, has a payload measured in grams and a 25 minute flight time but its fully autonomous. I flip a toggle on the remote, hand launch it and it flies a pre-programmed flight path (that I can interrupt anytime I want) and lands itself when done. For another $150-$200, probably cheaper, I can see in real time what the camera on the plane is seeing (FPV flying).

 

[Subyman]

How else would you define it?

My comment is meant to be more than a definition. The remark "collateral damage" is hand waving the immense tragedy of American deaths due to an American act as something that is unavoidable and simply a cost of doing business. It's cold and meant to be so as to not evoke emotion but to imply inevitability and therefore to be accepted and not questioned.

Collateral damage is a terrible byproduct of war, but NOT a justification for death.

 

[Brovane]

My comment is meant to be more than a definition. The remark "collateral damage" is hand waving the immense tragedy of American deaths due to an American act as something that is unavoidable and simply a cost of doing business. It's cold and meant to be so as to not evoke emotion but to imply inevitability and therefore to be accepted and not questioned.

Collateral damage is a terrible byproduct of war, but NOT a justification for death.

Should we ask the terrorists nicely not to mingle with civilians so we can avoid collateral damage?

 

[sm625]

Yet another impeachable offense. Due process is guaranteed by the constitution.