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DRM at it's finest - EA deactivating Servers

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CoinOperatedBoy said:
How much do "game hosting servers" cost?
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Depends on the game, total # of players available, and # of players using the service. Can be hundreds a month (and into the thousands) depending on the bandwidth usage, and the more games and players the more machines you need. Once the game popularity dies down (like these old sports games) you still have to pay to keep them running.

Again I don't know for sure, but I'd imagine an authentication server can be run on one machine without using much bandwidth so long as you don't have tons of people trying to authenticate all at once (like when a popular game is unlocked on Steam).
 
CoinOperatedBoy said:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/nickel-and-dime

Both verb definitions apply to the given example. Not sure why it bothers you either way.
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The first one definitely doesn't.. no one is being exposed to financial hardship being being given the *option* of a $1 avatar or $15 DLC. #1 applies to my cable/cell phone example, not an optional add on for a video game.

The second one sort of does only in the sense that it can be annoying to some, but that's not where the discussion has gone here. It's been about the cost, not the annoyance. And they aren't harassing anyone to buy them (you must buy this to play!!!!!) and the add ons certainly aren't an interruption.
 
mb said:
So even if you want to go with the urbandictionary definition, how is DLC and avatar clothing "upkeep" though?
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You could consider it upkeep if you want to have absolutely everything available for the game.

mb said:
The price may not be desirable to you but they are not required to play DA:O.
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I'm not arguing whether or not it's desirable from person to person, i'm pointing out how DLC of this sort is IMO, a shady business practice.

mb said:
It's also not hidden. You can see the prices anytime. It's also not ongoing, you can pay one time for the DLC or item or you can choose not to.
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Read it again.

it refers simply to seemingly hidden ongoing expenses which, over time, add up to a large expense.
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It's "seemingly hidden" at the time of purchase since one transaction isn't a lot of money. A dollar here and a dollar there could easily amount to some serious cash being spent after a few months. Words can have more than one meaning you know..

I understand what you are trying to say here, but IMHO the term nickel and dime when referring to DA DLC is completely acceptable.
 
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Never mind. This is like trying to explain to someone that the correct term is not "escape goat" and that it isn't ironic when they get pulled over for speeding.
 
mb said:
Never mind. This is like trying to explain to someone that the correct term is not "escape goat" and that it isn't ironic when they get pulled over for speeding.
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Because slang terms can only have one meaning right?
 
mb said:
Depends on the game, total # of players available, and # of players using the service. Can be hundreds a month (and into the thousands) depending on the bandwidth usage, and the more games and players the more machines you need. Once the game popularity dies down (like these old sports games) you still have to pay to keep them running.

Again I don't know for sure, but I'd imagine an authentication server can be run on one machine without using much bandwidth so long as you don't have tons of people trying to authenticate all at once (like when a popular game is unlocked on Steam).
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As has been pointed out, other companies manage these costs through ad support or through other revenue. This should tell you that the cost to maintain these servers is not so significant a burden. Obviously EA is under no obligation to maintain these, especially if they only committed to one year of support and, sure, they'll save money if they don't. It just seems pretty obvious that the reason isn't excessive cost to them, but that it's an easy money grab to make people buy new versions.
 
mb said:
You got that from what I wrote? No wonder you don't get it.
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No, not from what you wrote, but from your failure to acknowledge that a slang term can have more than one meaning or relate to more than one specific type of situation. All you accomplished by attempting to belittle me with the example you did was prove that you are no longer able to come up with anything to counter the argument.
 
mb said:
You got that from what I wrote? No wonder you don't get it.
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You misused the word "word" when originally trying to point out the incorrect usage of "nickel and dime," which is a phrase. Know why nobody has bothered to correct you? It's because the meaning was understood, usage was close enough, and nobody really cares. 😛
 
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mindcycle said:
No, not from what you wrote, but from your failure to acknowledge that a slang term can have more than one meaning or relate to more than one specific type of situation. All you accomplished by attempting to belittle me with the example you did was prove that you are no longer able to come up with anything to counter the argument.
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Really, I failed to acknowledge it can have more than one meaning when in just a few posts before that I talked about the different definitions? Or the one further back where we were talking about different definitions from urbandicitonary? Give me a break.

Like I said, it's like trying to explain to someone who insists it is ironic if they get pulled over for speeding. Ironic/irony have more multiple definitions too but that doesn't mean you can just make up your own. I really tried explaining to someone IRL that the "escape goat" was not the correct term they were looking for and that it is actually "scapegoat." Even after having her google it she still said she was right because her mom says it that way. This is the same situation. You think it's right because you think it's right and nothing is going to fix that.
 
CoinOperatedBoy said:
You misused the word "word" when originally trying to point out the incorrect usage of "nickel and dime," which is a phrase. No why nobody has bothered to correct you? It's because the meaning was understood, usage was close enough, and nobody really cares. 😛
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Or they realized it is a direct quote from a movie.
 
mb said:
Really, I failed to acknowledge it can have more than one meaning when in just a few posts before that I talked about the different definitions? Or the one further back where we were talking about different definitions from urbandicitonary? Give me a break.
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So, it can have different definitions, just not ones that you don't approve of. I see..

As far as I can tell the term nickel and dime when it comes to DLC has been used by more people than just me.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=DLC+nickel+and+dime
 
mb said:
Lots of people using it incorrectly doesn't make it right. I'm sorry if you and others have trouble understanding what it means.
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I think it's pretty easy to argue that using "nickel-and-dime" in reference to paid DLC like that of DA:O is appropriate. It may not be financially burdensome to the point of bankruptcy -- and in fact is an optional, frivolous entertainment expense -- but getting the latest content and keeping current with the games they enjoy is important to lots of players. Where other studios might provide some of these content updates for free, that of DA:O decided to have paid DLC on day 1 and continue to charge for small update packs.

Even if you disagree with this usage, it's not so far off from the definition as to warrant your little crusade, unlike the common misuse of "ironic" you've noted.
 
mb said:
Lots of people using it incorrectly doesn't make it right. I'm sorry if you and others have trouble understanding what it means.
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lol This is just too funny.. Given that the top two results in google are from well known gaming news sites, i'd say that the term is widely used and it's meaning when it come to game DLC has been clearly established.

But I guess that depends on what reality you live in right.. 😉 In my reality the internet is a series of tubes.
 
nickel and dime:
Traditionally used as part of the larger phrase "To be nickled and dimed to death", referring to the undesired price of upkeep for a certain item. More fundamentally, it refers simply to seemingly hidden ongoing expenses which, over time, add up to a large expense.
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Thanks Mindcycle, this is exactly how I would define nickle and diming. They sell you a product and then steadily release DLC (which most likely was developed in parallel with the game, or is being developed in lieu of something silly like a patch) over the lifecycle of the product. Then, about 1 year after the release of the game, they bundle it all together and sell it as a GOTY version that includes the full game finally.

e.g. Fallout 3

I would probably like to play Dragon Age, but I have a good backlog of games to keep me busy, and intend to pick it up right around a year from now; at which time I will get the full game for $50 or less, and it will be patched and relatively bug free (I have no idea about the current state of this game, but most PC games require patches over their lifetime).

OT: I will never, ever buy a Bethesda game on release day again. Oblivion was buggy and Fallout 3 was a never ending crashfest for me when they were released. Also, both released lots of DLC and then bundled it all together roughly a year later; all the while taking away precious time away from developing much needed patches for each game.
 
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AyashiKaibutsu said:
Pretty sure Diablo 1 is still up and running on b.net... How long ago was that released? Seems less about DRM and more about EA just being a terrible company in general. EAs business model is get money no matter what. If that means shitting on your customers so be it. I'll stick with companies that try to make money by treating their customers right and having their customers return to them for more.
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If EA's sales are any indication: Their business model works just fine. :thumbsup:

In the meantime, I'll be loading up my Windows version of PGA Tour 2004, which is still the best golf game ever made.

EDIT: Also, EA is not "nickel and diming" us to death. More like they are "C-noting" us to death.
 
mindcycle said:
lol This is just too funny.. Given that the top two results in google are from well known gaming news sites, i'd say that the term is widely used and it's meaning when it come to game DLC has been clearly established.

But I guess that depends on what reality you live in right.. 😉 In my reality the internet is a series of tubes.
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Yeah, well known publications never make mistakes (see: NY Times, WSJ, Fox News, Yahoo)
Also, neither of them reference DA:O.
 
CoinOperatedBoy said:
I think it's pretty easy to argue that using "nickel-and-dime" in reference to paid DLC like that of DA:O is appropriate. It may not be financially burdensome to the point of bankruptcy -- and in fact is an optional, frivolous entertainment expense -- but getting the latest content and keeping current with the games they enjoy is important to lots of players. Where other studios might provide some of these content updates for free, that of DA:O decided to have paid DLC on day 1 and continue to charge for small update packs.

Even if you disagree with this usage, it's not so far off from the definition as to warrant your little crusade, unlike the common misuse of "ironic" you've noted.
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Oh hell, the original game purchase is a frivolous entertainment expense. So are the SLIed GTX 275s in my PC.

It would be wonderful to see something like Total Annihilation come out today. We'd get several new units released for only 80 MS Points once a month, and there would be no user created maps. There would however be 2-3 800 MS points map packs released and it would all get bundled together in a GOTY version 1 year after release. Probably would have activation limits, mandatory Steam, and GFWL thrown in just for good measure.
 
shortylickens said:
If EA's sales are any indication: Their business model works just fine. :thumbsup:

In the meantime, I'll be loading up my Windows version of PGA Tour 2004, which is still the best golf game ever made.

EDIT: Also, EA is not "nickel and diming" us to death. More like they are "C-noting" us to death.
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http://www.google.com/finance?q=Electronic+arts

EA used to be a PC gaming powerhouse. They got fat, lazy, and anti-consumer. Their business plan is now paying dividends. Unfortunately their stock is not.
 
mb said:
Yeah, well known publications never make mistakes (see: NY Times, WSJ, Fox News, Yahoo)
Also, neither of them reference DA:O.
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So the New York Times are occasionally wrong. And Fox News.. when have they actually been right about anything. lol Yet.. you can't possibly be wrong right?

Yes, keep posting. It gets better and better every time you do.
 
Fairly weak rant as these are specific games that have heavy population shifts from year to year. The vast majority of gamers that play these titles pick up the new season each year and don't look book. I don't blame EA.
 
Don't see whats wrong here, there is always a risk of online servers shutting down for multiplayer games. Westwood online has been dead for a long time, yet it doesn't stop people from still playing Renegade online.
 
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