driving stick in the snow/ice?

[BlahBlahYouToo]

logically i would think that you want less wheel spin therefore less torque therefore higher gear lower rpm.
but in practice, i find myself downshifting too much in my 4 cylinder civic
which is more recommended?

 

[TimeKeeper]

Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo
logically i would think that you want less wheel spin therefore less torque therefore higher gear lower rpm.
but in practice, i find myself downshifting too much in my 4 cylinder civic
which is more recommended?

I would think lower rpm get more control.
When select Winter mode in my car, it starts from 4th gear instead of 2nd gear. (which gain more control and start slower)

It might be possible you need better tires.
Not all tires created equal, and if your tires doesn't "holds" snow, you can't get good traction on snow.

 

[woodie1]

At one time some automatics could be made to start in 2nd gear from a stop on ice and snow covered roads. Don't know if any do now with traction control fairly common. In a stick I was taught that 2nd gear would produce less wheel spin from a stop and it seemed to work back in the day.

 

[marvdmartian]

I drive a 4wd pickup (98 Nissan Frontier), but when I find myself driving in slippery conditions in 2wd, I usually start out in 2nd, and as low of rpm's as I can get away with, at least until I get moving. Remember, you're trying to overcome your lack of inertia on a surface that's giving you a lack of traction (friction). Takes a little getting used to, but especially with my truck having so much torque in first, second definitely works better.

 

[Thump553]

In my experience, it only really matters when starting out or you are stuck. And then second gear is usually better than first.

This is one of those rare instances when an auto is superior to manual. With auto transmission its easier to start in second and to rock back and forth between reverse and forward.

 

[Raduque]

Used to go from a start in 2nd in my Accord.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: Thump553
In my experience, it only really matters when starting out or you are stuck. And then second gear is usually better than first.

This is one of those rare instances when an auto is superior to manual. With auto transmission its easier to start in second and to rock back and forth between reverse and forward.

Actually a manual is much better. Better control of how much power is going to the wheels plus the added advantage of feathering the clutch/throttle for better traction. You can also go from forward to reverse in under a second. Can't do that in an auto.

Start off in second if you need to. no harm.

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: Thump553
In my experience, it only really matters when starting out or you are stuck. And then second gear is usually better than first.

This is one of those rare instances when an auto is superior to manual. With auto transmission its easier to start in second and to rock back and forth between reverse and forward.

au contraire...if you're actually stuck in snow, it's MUCH easier to rock the car back and forth with a stick. The auto never truly stops "pushing" on the tires, and since you can't shift in and out of neutral as fast as you can push in the clutch with a stick, you can't do a very good job of rocking at all.

I've had to move a LOT of cars out of snowed-in parking spots, and it's a LOT easier with the manual cars. Often you have to get a shovel for the autos. With the manuals you just put in in reverse (or 1st), and use the gas and clutch to start a nice rocking motion, slowly increasing the amplitude until you're out.

OP: Low RPM, high gear is better. Higher RPMs don't give you more "control" if the slightest application of throttle leads to wheel spin.

 

[mooseracing]

Originally posted by: Thump553
With auto transmission its easier to start in second and to rock back and forth between reverse and forward.

what recent autos let you start in second? usually they limit your upshifting, you aren't selecting second to start off in. my th400 and th350's from the 70's are even this way.

I would take a stick over an auto any day in the winter. I like lower gears just because i know how the power is going to hit. I would also say it depends on your motor, with mine peak power is 1500 and below, compared to some 4cyls you could easily dog the motor in first where their peak power is closer to 3k.

 

[TimeKeeper]

Originally posted by: mooseracing

Originally posted by: Thump553
With auto transmission its easier to start in second and to rock back and forth between reverse and forward.

what recent autos let you start in second? usually they limit your upshifting, you aren't selecting second to start off in. my th400 and th350's from the 70's are even this way.

I would take a stick over an auto any day in the winter. I like lower gears just because i know how the power is going to hit. I would also say it depends on your motor, with mine peak power is 1500 and below, compared to some 4cyls you could easily dog the motor in first where their peak power is closer to 3k.

I think what Thump553 meant was for Auto transmission. And he is quite right about starting the car from second gear in many Automatic equipped car.
My car in sports mode doesn't even start from 1st gear unless you down select. In winter mode, it will start from 3rd gear. Where my wife's car will start from 4th gear in Winter mode. ( Since her car's auto transmission got 7 gear )

 

[JulesMaximus]

Whatever gives you less wheelspin. I don't recall ever starting out in a higher gear even in the snow. If you have excessive wheelspin then I think you need to consider changing to snow tires and/or adding weight over the drive wheels if possible.

 

[VigilanteCS]

On the rare occasion I drive my Mustang in the snow I always keep it at lower RPMs to have more control over it...but 8 cylinder + rwd with no traction control + positraction = never any traction in snow.

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: Thump553
In my experience, it only really matters when starting out or you are stuck. And then second gear is usually better than first.

This is one of those rare instances when an auto is superior to manual. With auto transmission its easier to start in second and to rock back and forth between reverse and forward.

Actually a manual is much better. Better control of how much power is going to the wheels plus the added advantage of feathering the clutch/throttle for better traction. You can also go from forward to reverse in under a second. Can't do that in an auto.

Start off in second if you need to. no harm.

a lot of times i have difficulty feeling when the clutch has engaged the wheels because they're slipping. i'm afraid to rev too while i haven't full engaged yet and burn the clutch.
also, if i switch from 1st to R quickly, i'll get what sounds like a gear grind or a crunch.
i'm somewhat new to driving stick in the snow so my opinion may be incorrect.

my fear is starting up a wet/icy/slippery hill from a complete stop. i can totally picture myself not getting any traction and sliding backwards. yikes.

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo
a lot of times i have difficulty feeling when the clutch has engaged the wheels because they're slipping. i'm afraid to rev too while i haven't full engaged yet and burn the clutch.
also, if i switch from 1st to R quickly, i'll get what sounds like a gear grind or a crunch.
i'm somewhat new to driving stick in the snow so my opinion may be incorrect.

my fear is starting up a wet/icy/slippery hill from a complete stop. i can totally picture myself not getting any traction and sliding backwards. yikes.

It's pretty hard to burn the clutch when you have no traction...there is simply not much force there. At first the clutch is engaged so lightly that little heat is being produced, and once it is engaged heavily enough to really create heat it's already enough to break the tires loose. Don't worry too much about burning the clutch in snow...it takes some doing.
Just let out very slowly, in second gear if you like.

Not everyone has a fully synchro'd reverse gear. Rocking a stick shift car is best done while in one gear the whole time (whether it is 1 or R), and modulating the clutch and gas to keep rocking it higher and higher.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo
a lot of times i have difficulty feeling when the clutch has engaged the wheels because they're slipping. i'm afraid to rev too while i haven't full engaged yet and burn the clutch.
also, if i switch from 1st to R quickly, i'll get what sounds like a gear grind or a crunch.
i'm somewhat new to driving stick in the snow so my opinion may be incorrect.

my fear is starting up a wet/icy/slippery hill from a complete stop. i can totally picture myself not getting any traction and sliding backwards. yikes.

If that's your concern then you'll just need to practice. Your clutch and throttle are not ON or OFF. Don't be afraid to use your clutch for what it is meant to be - friction control between the motor and the tranny. Use the throttle to maintain around 3K+ and use your clutch to control how much power is applied.

I can understand what you're saying. It you can't get traction no magician is going to give it to you.

wet - you should have no problem controlling traction uphill, use your clutch and maintain throttle/engine speed. You have a 4 banger so you'll have to keep the rpms in their power range.

icy - if truly icy then there isn't a lot you can do but try to maintain traction

slippery/snowy - maintain forward momentum as much as you can, go fast and use that to carry you.

I highly suggest you get onto a parking lot and practice.

 

[krunchykrome]

I actually feel as though I have more control while in lower gears, higher RPMS.

 

[bruceb]

Manual shift is the best in ice or snow ... Unless you are on hill try starting in second gear.
Most engines have enough torque to allow this, especially on snowy roads. If it is icy, I would
stay home. I have been on really icy roads with both sleet or hail and in some cases black ice.
You can steer somewhat ok, if very careful and you feed the turn into the steering very gradual.
But if you need to make a quick turn, forget it ... It will go out of control easily. Same for trying to
stop on ice .. need lots of room and start gradual braking well in advance of where you need to stop.
For tires, Blizzak makes good snow tires .. Also some of the Goodyears are not too bad. You want a
snow tire that will Remove the Snow from the Tread Blocks.

Check out Tire Rack for info on Winter Tires http://www.tirerack.com/

 

[thomsbrain]

Originally posted by: mooseracing

Originally posted by: Thump553
With auto transmission its easier to start in second and to rock back and forth between reverse and forward.

what recent autos let you start in second? usually they limit your upshifting, you aren't selecting second to start off in. my th400 and th350's from the 70's are even this way.

The auto in my Accord allows you to start in second gear by selecting "2." It will use second gear and only second until you shift it to something else. This is as opposed to "D3" or "D", which will use the first three gears or all five, respectively. The manual makes a point of suggesting use of "2" in icy conditions to smooth out the power delivery on starts. There is also a "1" option for heavy engine braking.

Regarding what someone said about traction control: Most traction control systems are pretty rudimentary compared to ABS systems. They have very slow reaction times to both the beginning and end of wheelspin, so they do not even come close to allowing you to maximize traction. You are much better off just paying attention and turning the system off if you know you need maximum traction, like for climbing a slippery hill. My experience is that traction control causes more nasty surprises than it prevents.

 

[EGGO]

Start getting used to start in 2nd gear except on hills. Otherwise, everybody else pretty much said it.

 

[Colt45]

Originally posted by: VigilanteCS
On the rare occasion I drive my Mustang in the snow I always keep it at lower RPMs to have more control over it...but 8 cylinder + rwd with no traction control + positraction = never any traction in snow.

Eh? Posi helps on snow.

 

[PeeluckyDuckee]

If your vehicle is already moving, then it really does depend on what you're approaching and what is your surrounding like. If I know there's good traction to be had and I think I may require that extra zip (ie: approaching an intersection) then I'd throw it in 3rd. If traction is of concern and I don't foresee any need for significant changes in speed or direction, then 4th would be more appropriate.

Just be careful when you shift from one to the other that you're not breaking traction (ie: 3rd to 2nd DURING a turn). I would prefer to downshift prior to entering a turn as opposed to during a turn.

From a standstill I'd use 2nd if I know my tires are sitting on top of black ice or ice at an intersection. Actually I usually don't like to approach an intersection and stop at one sitting at the tracks that everyone's went over, I prefer to come to a stop either a little to the left or right where there's fresh snow or snow that's not as packed, thus giving me better traction when the lights turn green.

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

Originally posted by: thomsbrain

The auto in my Accord allows you to start in second gear by selecting "2." It will use second gear and only second until you shift it to something else. This is as opposed to "D3" or "D", which will use the first three gears or all five, respectively. The manual makes a point of suggesting use of "2" in icy conditions to smooth out the power delivery on starts. There is also a "1" option for heavy engine braking.

Regarding what someone said about traction control: Most traction control systems are pretty rudimentary compared to ABS systems. They have very slow reaction times to both the beginning and end of wheelspin, so they do not even come close to allowing you to maximize traction. You are much better off just paying attention and turning the system off if you know you need maximum traction, like for climbing a slippery hill. My experience is that traction control causes more nasty surprises than it prevents.

it's been awhile since i've driven an auto accord but to my recollection, doing what you describe, it starts in 1st and tops out at 2nd. it doesn't actually start in 2nd.
i could be wrong though... it was a '95 accord auto.