Driving in inclement weather

[spidey07]

Yeah, so people don't know how to drive in snow. Here are a few things that most don't know.

Its all about traction. Most cars today are FWD and in snow that is a big help because the wheels that turn are the wheels that steer. Give some throttle to the front wheels and you can point your car where you want it to go - "pull" it where you want it. That's a BIG help. I know it doens't make sense to give your car throttle in inclement weather but just trust me.

Go out to a large parking lot and drive around. Try turning, braking, accelerating, etc where you have room to play. Practice throwing your rear end out and still completing a turn. Do some 180s, 360s and practice maintaining control of you vehicle. Go much faster than you should for the conditions (40-60 mph) and see how the car reacts - you traction control will really kick constantly and you should know what it feels like and how to use it. Not only that it is a whole lot of fun.

AWD - lucky bastards, but still hit a parking lot and realize throttle is your friend

RWD - point car where you want it to go and feather the throttle without breaking traction. Throttle is your enemy here.

Seriously though, most folks don't realize that throttle can actually gain traction until you try it in a parking lot.

And if you are going in a straight line, turning your wheel and still not causing any change in your speed/direction you are on ice and your best bet is to just carry on that line because any shift in it will cause you to spin.

-edit-sure I'm preaching, but let's hear some good parking lot stories.

 

Get snow tires.

 

[Zenmervolt]

You cannot "gain" traction. There is a limited amount available based on the interplay of several factors such as precipitation, temperature, tire tread design, weight over the tires, tire rubber compound, and other things.

FWD can _use the available traction_ to assist in changing direction since the thrust applied by the drive wheels can be used to yaw the car, but you do _not_ get more traction by doing this. You are simply using the available traction in a more intelligent way.

Also, the idea of having the thrust helping to yaw the car is overstated. The single largest factor for FWD's better ability in snow is that most of the weight is over the drivewheels. VW Beetles (the originals) and Porsche 911's are _exceptional_ in the snow even though they are RWD because they have the majority of their weight over their drivewheels. Old VW Beetles and 911's (as well as the 356 series) are as good in snow as modern FWD cars.

ZV

 

[NascarFool]

Brakes are your enemy.

*Edit* Oops, done been posted.

 

[mobobuff]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
You cannot "gain" traction. There is a limited amount available based on the interplay of several factors such as precipitation, temperature, tire tread design, weight over the tires, tire rubber compound, and other things.

FWD can _use the available traction_ to assist in changing direction since the thrust applied by the drive wheels can be used to yaw the car, but you do _not_ get more traction by doing this. You are simply using the available traction in a more intelligent way.

Also, the idea of having the thrust helping to yaw the car is overstated. The single largest factor for FWD's better ability in snow is that most of the weight is over the drivewheels. VW Beetles (the originals) and Porsche 911's are _exceptional_ in the snow even though they are RWD because they have the majority of their weight over their drivewheels. Old VW Beetles and 911's (as well as the 356 series) are as good in snow as modern FWD cars.

ZV

So in RWD vehicles, throw some 50lb bags of rocksalt in your trunk/truckbed.

 

[Jassi]

spidey07 - That is good advice, I will try it the first chance I get.

 

[CaptnKirk]

If you drive as fast as you possibly can . . .
you might lower your exposure time in traffic.











Maybe not.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
You cannot "gain" traction. There is a limited amount available based on the interplay of several factors such as precipitation, temperature, tire tread design, weight over the tires, tire rubber compound, and other things.

FWD can _use the available traction_ to assist in changing direction since the thrust applied by the drive wheels can be used to yaw the car, but you do _not_ get more traction by doing this. You are simply using the available traction in a more intelligent way.

Also, the idea of having the thrust helping to yaw the car is overstated. The single largest factor for FWD's better ability in snow is that most of the weight is over the drivewheels. VW Beetles (the originals) and Porsche 911's are _exceptional_ in the snow even though they are RWD because they have the majority of their weight over their drivewheels. Old VW Beetles and 911's (as well as the 356 series) are as good in snow as modern FWD cars.

ZV

while somewhat true, spinning the tires in a FWD vehicle can have more traction than not accelerating.

equate this with feathering the throttle while racing. Try it out in a parking lot.

So on with the parking lot stories....

first car was a 83 buick lesabre. all it took was a nice blip of the throttle while turning to get her rear end out. but we still would negotiate the "obstacle" course of the handicap signs and around the building all while the rear end had no traction. all by throttle control worked with steering input.

that and going 60 MPH and yanking the E-brake when turning yielded tons of fun. I honestly think everybody should do 360s at high speed just to see how it works.

 

[EyeMWing]

Wanna know how to drive on snow? Go offroading. Stick to established paths immediately after a rain. Mud is about twice as bad as snow. After you're comfortable doing that, you'll be golden in the snow.

Oh, and avoid the mud that looks more like water than mud - that stuff doesn't compare to anything and will only serve to sink your car.

 

[jadinolf]

Question: I am from California. What is inclement weather?

 

[mobobuff]

Originally posted by: jadinolf
Question: I am from California. What is inclement weather?

Weather that just isn't very nice.

Look out for falling rocks, lava, and sudden appearances of fault lines.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
You cannot "gain" traction. There is a limited amount available based on the interplay of several factors such as precipitation, temperature, tire tread design, weight over the tires, tire rubber compound, and other things.

FWD can _use the available traction_ to assist in changing direction since the thrust applied by the drive wheels can be used to yaw the car, but you do _not_ get more traction by doing this. You are simply using the available traction in a more intelligent way.

Also, the idea of having the thrust helping to yaw the car is overstated. The single largest factor for FWD's better ability in snow is that most of the weight is over the drivewheels. VW Beetles (the originals) and Porsche 911's are _exceptional_ in the snow even though they are RWD because they have the majority of their weight over their drivewheels. Old VW Beetles and 911's (as well as the 356 series) are as good in snow as modern FWD cars.

ZV

while somewhat true, spinning the tires in a FWD vehicle can have more traction than not accelerating.

equate this with feathering the throttle while racing. Try it out in a parking lot.

So on with the parking lot stories....

first car was a 83 buick lesabre. all it took was a nice blip of the throttle while turning to get her rear end out. but we still would negotiate the "obstacle" course of the handicap signs and around the building all while the rear end had no traction. all by throttle control worked with steering input.

that and going 60 MPH and yanking the E-brake when turning yielded tons of fun. I honestly think everybody should do 360s at high speed just to see how it works.

Coefficient of kinetic friction versus the coefficient of static friction. Static is always greater. If your tires are spinning, there is less traction. Period.

Now, I don't argue that this cannot be good, but saying that you get "more traction" is erroneous. What you get is more desireable handling from the vehicle, but you do _not_ get "more traction".

ZV

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
Coefficient of kinetic friction versus the coefficient of static friction. Static is always greater. If your tires are spinning, there is less traction. Period.

Now, I don't argue that this cannot be good, but saying that you get "more traction" is erroneous. What you get is more desireable handling from the vehicle, but you do _not_ get "more traction".

ZV

you're in the kinetic friction regime anyways, it's just your choice whether the tires slide forwards, or slide forwards while creating a sideways force that can eventually get them onto a higher-friction area.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
You cannot "gain" traction. There is a limited amount available based on the interplay of several factors such as precipitation, temperature, tire tread design, weight over the tires, tire rubber compound, and other things.

FWD can _use the available traction_ to assist in changing direction since the thrust applied by the drive wheels can be used to yaw the car, but you do _not_ get more traction by doing this. You are simply using the available traction in a more intelligent way.

Also, the idea of having the thrust helping to yaw the car is overstated. The single largest factor for FWD's better ability in snow is that most of the weight is over the drivewheels. VW Beetles (the originals) and Porsche 911's are _exceptional_ in the snow even though they are RWD because they have the majority of their weight over their drivewheels. Old VW Beetles and 911's (as well as the 356 series) are as good in snow as modern FWD cars.

ZV

while somewhat true, spinning the tires in a FWD vehicle can have more traction than not accelerating.

equate this with feathering the throttle while racing. Try it out in a parking lot.

So on with the parking lot stories....

first car was a 83 buick lesabre. all it took was a nice blip of the throttle while turning to get her rear end out. but we still would negotiate the "obstacle" course of the handicap signs and around the building all while the rear end had no traction. all by throttle control worked with steering input.

that and going 60 MPH and yanking the E-brake when turning yielded tons of fun. I honestly think everybody should do 360s at high speed just to see how it works.

Coefficient of kinetic friction versus the coefficient of static friction. Static is always greater. If your tires are spinning, there is less traction. Period.

Now, I don't argue that this cannot be good, but saying that you get "more traction" is erroneous. What you get is more desireable handling from the vehicle, but you do _not_ get "more traction".

ZV

you've been reading too many physics books.

go out to a parking lot and give throttle in a FWD vehicle - you'll notice that you do indeed gain traction instead of plowing forward.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: mobobuff

Originally posted by: jadinolf
Question: I am from California. What is inclement weather?

Weather that just isn't very nice.

Look out for falling rocks, lava, and sudden appearances of fault lines.

bwahahah!

and fog.

 

[jadinolf]

Originally posted by: mobobuff

Originally posted by: jadinolf
Question: I am from California. What is inclement weather?

Weather that just isn't very nice.

Look out for falling rocks, lava, and sudden appearances of fault lines.

Oh, OK. Now I know.

 

[Injury]

Injury's tip: SLOW THE FVCK DOWN WHEN YOU DON'T KNOW HOW TO DRIVE ON SNOW... STAY OUT OF THE WAY OF THOSE OF US WHO DO.


The end.

 

[shekondar]

Originally posted by: Injury
Injury's tip: SLOW THE FVCK DOWN WHEN YOU DRIVE ON SNOW... STAY OUT OF THE WAY OF THOSE OF US WHO THINK WE DO.


The end.

Fixed.

 

[TheLonelyPhoenix]

Originally posted by: spidey07

you've been reading too many physics books.

go out to a parking lot and give throttle in a FWD vehicle - you'll notice that you do indeed gain traction instead of plowing forward.

I'd sure love to know what your definition of "traction" is.

FWDs do better in the snow because of the extra weight on the drivewheels. Period. When you give it throttle, you shift the weight of the car onto the back wheels and lose traction, spinning the wheels. While fun to do in a parking lot, it definitely doesn't help the majority of drivers on their way to work.

Originally posted by: Injury
Injury's tip: SLOW THE FVCK DOWN

Best advice thus far.

 

[AmigaMan]

Originally posted by: shekondar

Originally posted by: Injury
Injury's tip: SLOW THE FVCK DOWN WHEN YOU DRIVE ON SNOW... STAY OUT OF THE WAY OF THOSE OF US WHO THINK WE DO.


The end.

Fixed.

Exactly! The problem is those people who think they know how to drive in snow when they really don't. Those people (not limited to soccer moms either) who think because they have AWD or 4WD think they can go 90mph in the snow/rain/ice because they have too much confidence in their car/truck/van/SUV.

 

[DaWhim]

for people with AWD:

stick to your gas pedal. when you start to skid, instead of getting off the gas, give it some more. the AWD system will send more power to the rear. go practice in emptied parking lot, you need to have faith in AWD.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: TheLonelyPhoenix

Originally posted by: spidey07

you've been reading too many physics books.

go out to a parking lot and give throttle in a FWD vehicle - you'll notice that you do indeed gain traction instead of plowing forward.

I'd sure love to know what your definition of "traction" is.

FWDs do better in the snow because of the extra weight on the drivewheels. Period. When you give it throttle, you shift the weight of the car onto the back wheels and lose traction, spinning the wheels. While fun to do in a parking lot, it definitely doesn't help the majority of drivers on their way to work.

Originally posted by: Injury
Injury's tip: SLOW THE FVCK DOWN

Best advice thus far.

meh, apparently you can't drive.

with a front wheel vehicle the throttle is your friend.

Plowing into a turn? Step on the gas and feather the throttle. Sure reading a whole lot of intarweb is good, but it doesn't replace experience. Serioulsy dude, driving isn't like it is in video games or what you read in the GTA manual.

 

[Injury]

Originally posted by: AmigaMan

Originally posted by: shekondar

Originally posted by: Injury
Injury's tip: SLOW THE FVCK DOWN WHEN YOU DRIVE ON SNOW... STAY OUT OF THE WAY OF THOSE OF US WHO THINK WE DO.


The end.

Fixed.

Exactly! The problem is those people who think they know how to drive in snow when they really don't. Those people (not limited to soccer moms either) who think because they have AWD or 4WD think they can go 90mph in the snow/rain/ice because they have too much confidence in their car/truck/van/SUV.

You don't quite understand here... I have NO intention of doing 90 on snow covered roads, pulling stunts in the middle of the road, driving as if nothing were wrong.. ANYTHING LIKE THAT. I know how to control my car on snow covered roads at speeds reasonable with the actual condition of the roads. People who do NOT know how to drive on snow are a HAZARD to people who are confident in driving. (don't just jump to conclusions.)

Erratic (mis)corrections in steering, failure to check blind spots in favor of keeping eyes foward and not allotting enough time to stop and slowdown are probably three of the BIGGEST mistakes of drivers inexperienced on snowy roads... all things that could easily cause an accident with a nearby driver.

I repeat.. ... this time clearer and more kindly... if you DO NOT know how to drive on the snow or in slick conditions, SLOW DOWN and take your time going where you have to go. allow yourself NEARLY double the time it takes to arrive at a destination and if you see someone coming your way, let them pass you if need be. While it isn't smart of the experienced drives to assume confidence when other people are around, they DO... and you being away from other people and giving yourself plenty of space is the BEST precaution in driving in hazardous conditions.

 

[spidey07]

heh, that and being able to control your vehicle.

 

[Squisher]

I drive the worst vehicle you can have in the snow, a RWD pickup ('91 Dakota) and it's all about practice.

Learn what your vehicle can and can't do. Especially on the day of the snow. Try your brakes before you get in traffic. Try to feather your gas before you get in traffic. If you don't know what the limits are before hand then you're just flying blind.


Also, sometimes the best traction can be found outside of the tracks formed by the other traffic if what is being exposed is ice.