Drilling in the Alaskan Wildlife Reserve? THis is the most impratical way to resolve our gasoline crisis right now.

[Pennstate]

Talk about fighting close fires with distant water.

Has anyone even thought of how many years it would take before we could actually use the oil from Alaska? Lets assume that we pass a bill tomorrow to allow drilling in Alaska. Here are some of the things that need to be ironed out:

1. Finding oil --- 1 year
2. Building drilling facilities --- 1 year
3. Laying down the oil pipeline from Alaska to the US --- 2-3 years (I wonder who's going to foot the bill for that.) Shipping via tanker is unlikely. We don't want another Exxon Valdez.

We looking at potentially 3-4 years before any oil-relief from Alaska. And it's questionable how much oil Alaska can provide. It would be a much wiser idea to improve fuel efficiency, which is almost guaranteed to succeed. In the latest COnsumer Reports, they did a round up of hybrid vehicles. 2 of them had 60 mpg on highway. And Look, improving fuel efficiency is only a question of sooner or later. I can't imagine that we'll still be driving 20mpg cars in 2010. So why not sooner. I am sure many self-proclaimed economist here will agree with me that cutting the demand will also lower the price of gas.

I sense the 2 oil men that we have now in office have alterior motives for pushing drilling in Alaska. I bet WE, as taxpayers, will be footing the bill for that pipeline if Drilling is approved.

Oh yeah, I also haven't even mentioned the possible environmental impact of drilling in Alaska. If this thing is going to pass, you can bet that there will be a year-long study on the impact on the environment. So it would be 4-5 years before we see any relief (assuming it will provide enough to have any impact on the overall supply). IMO, this idea STINKS!

 

[blurredvision]

I would have to agree with the issue of getting better gas mileage sooner than later. I would actually like to see great advances in the electric dept, but I know that's still a good ways away. Hopefully, something can be settled so we will not have to worry about gasoline and prices in the near future.

 

[Tominator]

The current hybrids are a joke! A publicity gimmic at best. No AC or heat in traffic jams...LOL!!!

Oil IS and will continue to be our best resource for energy.

The same arguments were given when oil was first discovered in Alaska. With new drilling techniques we could see an effect on the price of oil within one year. All this while using proven methods to insure no environmental damage.

Of course this does not include all the delays in court that the fringe environmentalists will use to subvert and delay.

 

[Pennstate]

Tominator, how would we transport the oil???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????



"No AC or heat in traffic jams "

Where did you hear that?



"With new drilling techniques we could see an effect on the price of oil within one year. All this while using proven methods to insure no environmental damage."

Wow, this sure sounds like Oil Campanies' propaganda

 

[Pennstate]

Anybody else have any comments?

 

[Tominator]

Ever hear of a TANKER? The current pipeline is not at it's maximum either. In fact there was oil in reserve until Clinton started selling it to the Japanese and Chinese. It was a reserve for just such an occurance.

How do you get heat or AC in an electric? Imagine the battery going flat in rush hour traffic....There are no successful electric or hybrid vehicles! They are YEARS away from having any influence at all.

1. Designing one....2 years

2. Building facilities at least 1 year

3. And then we've not addressed Consumer acceptance and replaceing literally hundreds of thousands of GAS stations.

I may be fighting fires with distant water, but you are not even close enough to smell the smoke.

 

[Yo Ma Ma]

I don't think the drilling is a very good idea. If for no other reason, it should be maintained for the absolute last resort emergency for the US, not used as an everyday casual source.

RE: your arguments though, I think they already have a pretty good idea where the oil can be found, they've already worked the land up there enough, they could probably start fairly soon and look for new sources simultaneously, would be my guess.

 

[Pennstate]

Ever hear of a TANKER

Ever heard of Exxon Valdez???


How do you get heat or AC in an electric? Imagine the battery going flat in rush hour traffic....There are no successful electric or hybrid vehicles! They are YEARS away from having any influence at all

I suggest you look into the new hybrids that came out in 2000. What you're refering to may be true of hybrids that came out a few years ago. CUrrent hybrids use both gas and battery. During traffic stop, the engine keeps running and charges the battery. Therefore THERE IS AC and HEAT. REad the December issue of consumer reports. No gas stations will need to be replaced.


The technology for fuel efficient cars is out there. THere are many US tech companies that have the efficient technologies. The problem is having big manufactures to adopt the technologies. If the US car manufactures are not willing to invest more in hybrids, the Japanese car makers WILL! When that happens, it'll be the 80's for US car makers all over again.

 

[Lord Evermore]

Would you be willing to give up your car altogether and just ride a bicycle for short distances and use mass transit for anything longer, every single time?

 

[Pennstate]

Nope, Mass Transit is not efficient in the modern day mega cities that result from urban sprawl. However, practical hybrid vehicles are just now coming out. In 2 years, I bet hybrids will be a major competitor in the family sedan market. In addition, these hybrids have very low emitsions.

 

[Mister T]

Pennstate,

We need to start drilling for oil in Alaska today. The US must become self-reliant for its energy. Being OPEC's bitch is not a good idea for the livelihood of the US Economy. Even if we can't get actual oil for 4-5 years, we need to start drilling alaska as a HEDGE in order to protect ourselves economically. The well being of our economy should not be subject to political instability half way around the world... this is not sound policy.

 

[Capn]

Yeah yeah you're absolutely right. Daimler Benz has been sitting on a revolutionary new clean energy vehicle that will make them billions, but they're not releasing it cause they don't feel like it. You ever thought that the reason hybrid vehicles and alike haven't taken off is because the people don't want it? Companies only produce what people will buy, don't blame them, blame the consumers. See how succesful the Honda insight has been.

New and better vehicles will be coming, just when the public demands it. I'm sure no major auto manufacturer has been sitting on their hands for the last few years and not done any research. But, people aren't willing to give up their current vehicles for cars that are not as easy to use and powerful as their current cars. In any case I don't understand why you see this as an either/or situation. Technology will only get better from here, and maybe consumers will start to come around. Regardless it's a good idea to have the oil capability when we need it from alaska instead of waiting until it's crunch time and the middle east screwing around with folks again.

 

[Pennstate]

The Toyota Prius


THe US will never be self-reliant on oil no matter how many places it drills in. Also why the hell would Cheney support drilling in Alaska and not in Wyoming????????????? In his vice presidential debate, his slick response was so obviously flawed. I am not saying we should leave drilling oil to other countries. But in the Arctic Wildlife reserve???? Haven't we messed enough Wildlife habitats already? If our cars used only 50% of the gas required today, it will plummet the gas price. THere are many "friendly" countries who are willing to sell us ol. The propose 2 million barrel cut by OPEc today is small percentage of the total output.


/edit ALSO FUEL EFFICIENCY ON STANDARD CARS CAN BE IMPROVED TOO!!! It's not whether you want a hydrid or not. THats why there are government standards on fuel efficiency.

 

[Elledan]

In about 25 years, we'll start to seriously run out of oil. Before the ending of the 21st century, we won't be using oil, since the few drops which are left by then won't be sufficient to sustain thousands of cars, powerplants, ships etc.

We have no choice but to find another way of powering our economy, or we'll have to return to the past, when Humans didn't use oil for anything.

 

[etech]

I don't know whether to be bemused or saddened that people that know nothing about oil drilling and exploration feel that they are qualified to tell everyone else what is correct for Alaska and the environment there.

Phillips

``Development of the Alpine field is a model of doing it right in Alaska,'' said Alaska Governor Tony Knowles. ``By incorporating innovative technology that minimizes environmental impacts, Alpine demonstrates how we can responsibly develop our vast Arctic resources. And through the involvement of Alaska contractors, suppliers and Native corporations, Alpine development has been an effective partnership with Alaska business. Congratulations to Phillips and Anadarko for bringing this field on line and leading the way for future development on the North Slope.''

The Alpine discovery was declared commercial in 1996. Alpine is the largest onshore oil field discovered in the United States in more than a decade. It also is the western-most producing oil field on Alaska's North Slope. The field is located in the Colville River area, 34 miles west of the Kuparuk River field, eight miles from the Inupiat village of Nuiqsut and near the border of the National Petroleum Reserve-Alaska.

To date, 30 wells -- 16 production and 14 injection -- have been completed at the first Alpine drill site. The entire Alpine development calls for two drill sites and more than 112 horizontal wells. Development of the first site includes the use of miscible injectant generated from the existing gas in the field to implement an enhanced oil recovery project at the time of field start-up. Development of the field will total more than $1 billion.

The 40,000-acre field was developed on just 94 acres, or two-tenths of one percent of the field area. In addition, Alpine is a zero-discharge facility. The waste generated is reused, recycled or properly disposed. There is no permanent road to the field, and in the winter ice roads are constructed to allow transportation of equipment and drilling supplies to the site. These roads minimize environmental impacts, because in the spring the ice roads melt, leaving no trace on the tundra. Small aircraft also provide service to the field.


Conoco
``We have notified our captains that all discharges of materials from our vessels will be in accordance with MARPOL Protocols pertaining to `Special Areas','' said Antonio J. Valdes, president of Conoco Shipping Company. ``Nothing other than food waste that has passed through a grinder, ballast water and treated sanitary waste will be discharged from our vessels at sea and only in areas where such disposal is allowed,'' he emphasized.
Conoco operates seven double-hulled ocean-going tankers and has 50 percent ownership in two double-hulled ultra deepwater drillships. In 1990, Conoco was the first U.S. oil company to voluntarily commit to building only double-hulled tankers, and later said it would operate an all double-hulled tanker fleet by 2000. Both objectives were achieved in 1999, a year ahead of schedule and sixteen years before U.S. legislation mandated double hulls on all tankers entering U.S. waters.

 

[rahvin]

There is a LOT of misinformation in this thread...

An appropriate time frame for active wells in the artic national wildlife preserve would be 6 months baring a court fight with environmental activists. They already know where the oil is and they have probably already sighted in the best location for wells. An extension to the alaskan pipline would take about 1 year for a guess.

<<Ever hear of a TANKER? The current pipeline is not at it's maximum either. In fact there was oil in reserve until Clinton started selling it to the Japanese and Chinese. It was a reserve for just such an occurance.>>

No tanker would ever be able to reach the preserve except during about a 2months period. Unless of course you think we should hire soviet ice breakers to escort every tanker in.

<<We need to start drilling for oil in Alaska today. The US must become self-reliant for its energy. Being OPEC's bitch is not a good idea for the livelihood of the US Economy.>>

The US will NEVER be energy independent. We as a country consume nearly 50% of the worlds energy reserves. The only possibility to be energy independent would be to build about 300 nuclear power plants and switch everyone to electric automobiles. And FYI the US purchases less than 10% of the oil used in this country from the middle east. The majority of oil purchased is from Mexico.

<<How do you get heat or AC in an electric? Imagine the battery going flat in rush hour traffic....There are no successful electric or hybrid vehicles! They are YEARS away from having any influence at all.>>

Yes, they are 4 years away to be exact. 2005 is the year Ford, Diamler, GM, Toyota and all the sub-manufactures are planning on launching the first Fuel Cell powered vehicles. The majority of which will probably be SUV's. Toyota may jump ahead and release one in 2004 if the rumors are correct.

<<In about 25 years, we'll start to seriously run out of oil. Before the ending of the 21st century, we won't be using oil, since the few drops which are left by then won't be sufficient to sustain thousands of cars, powerplants, ships etc.>>

Oh get real. We aren't even close to exhausting oil reserves. There is believed to be 200 years of oil reserves.

<<THe US will never be self-reliant on oil no matter how many places it drills in. Also why the hell would Cheney support drilling in Alaska and not in Wyoming????????????? In his vice presidential debate, his slick response was so obviously flawed.>>

Because the oil in Wyoming is so deep they will need oil prices of close to $50 a barrel to make drilling and pumping those reserves cost effective.

<<I don't think the drilling is a very good idea. If for no other reason, it should be maintained for the absolute last resort emergency for the US, not used as an everyday casual source.>>

This is the most sane comment I have heard in this thread. Those reserves should be preserved in case of war, not to lower the price at the pump.

 

[Pennstate]

etech, nice press releases you got there.

 

[monckywrench]

I favor both drilling for more oil and developing fuel-efficient/alternate fuel vehicles. It is not an either/or proposition. Increasing access to domestic oil helps give us leverage against high international oil prices, and is a good addition to our strategic assets. Alt fuel and high efficiency vehicles require infrastructure development that will take time. A carefully managed dual-track solution makes sense. BTW transportation is no problem. After the construction of the Alaska pipeline most of the anti-pipeline frothing died down and nothing of note has happened.

 

[Tominator]

rahvin
You are not completely devoid of misinformation yourself:Q

By the time we needed said reserves for war it would be too late unless the capacity was already there.

BTW, pipelines bring the oil to the southern shore of Alaska. Tankers onload there.

BTW, the Valdez was not nearly the disaster it was made out to be. The area is as pristeen today as it was before the accident. The Valdez was a single hull design. Only multiple hull designs are used today in US waters.

 

[Elledan]

May I remind you all again of the fact that those reserves won't last another 30 years? While we keep drilling for oil, we should instead concentrate more on finding alternate sources of energy. If we don't, we'll have a serious problem when our oil reserves are running out and we don't have a backup plan.

Whether to use a pipe-line of a tanker: I'd suggest using a tanker until the pipe-line is ready.

 

[Pennstate]

BTW, the Valdez was not nearly the disaster it was made out to be. The area is as pristeen today as it was before the accident.

Whatever Tomminator



Exxon Valdez 10 years later

beaches: 10 years later

 

[Tominator]

Elledan

We were yold 25 years ago that there would not be enough oil for another ten years. Today, we know there i more oil than anyone dreamed of!

Pennstate
Possibly I overspoke on the pristeen comment. The species referred to were in trouble long before the oil spill. Note that Nature is cleaning up the remainder quite well.

Besides, we KNOW the causes and have taken measures to prevent it happening again.

No permanent harm was done.

 

[etech]

Thank you Penn, there was some good information in there.

I think the Californians would be very happy to get some of the natural gas from Alaska to their state before too long.

monckywrench has it right, we need to do both, increase reseves and conserve.

 

[Elledan]

Torminator There still won't be enough oil for another 50 years. The price of oil will rise dramatically as well within 25 years.

Don't believe me? Just wait and watch...

 

[saxman]

<< Drilling in the Alaskan Wildlife Reserve? THis is the most impratical way to resolve our gasoline crisis right now. >>



What gasoline crisis?