Dream Act dead again .... maybe?

[halik]

the text

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_new...ream-act-punted-faces-uphill-battle-in-senate

Looks like it died in the senate. I'm glad we're sending on the J1 visa graduate students back to their respective countries and instead letting people that enroll into community colleges stay. Yay America!

Democrats Reckoning Electorate Among Minorities Act of 2010 FTW

 

[dainthomas]

Yep, because kids who were brought over when they were a week old and lived here their whole lives and speak not a word of Spanish obviously deserve to be deported to Mexico instead of being allowed to join the military or go to college.

The party of FEAR!!!! strikes again.

 

[Steeplerot]

I am sure when white folks are the minority and the GOP has no one to vote for them anymore there will be someone else who the Mexicans hate you can use to divide Americans against one another once again for votes. Do not despair, one thing that is a given -haters.

 

[Schadenfroh]

When will we stop favoring illegal immigrants and their children over bright, legal international students that graduate from our universities with advanced degrees who would love a path to citizenship and to become Americans?

However, we promptly send so many of them back home after graduation, where they will educate the next generation within their home country to compete with us in the future.

 

[spacejamz]

Yep, because kids who were brought over when they were a week old and lived here their whole lives and speak not a word of Spanish obviously deserve to be deported to Mexico instead of being allowed to join the military or go to college.

The party of FEAR!!!! strikes again.

yeah....let's just encourage more of them to come over and stay while american tax payer foot their education from kingergarten to high school...

Chances are, the parents are still illegal...keep the family together and send them all back so that the tax dollars paid by us can be used to educate the children of those actually paid taxes...

I still don't understand how parents who pay thousands of dollars in school taxes each year are okay with just giving this money away and having their children get a lower quality education...it is bad enough as it is and forcing school districts to get even more bi-lingual teachers and text books takes away money that should be used for children that are legally here...

 

[Carmen813]

yeah....let's just encourage more of them to come over and stay while american tax payer foot their education from kingergarten to high school...

Chances are, the parents are still illegal...keep the family together and send them all back so that the tax dollars paid by us can be used to educate the children of those actually paid taxes...

I still don't understand how parents who pay thousands of dollars in school taxes each year are okay with just giving this money away and having their children get a lower quality education...it is bad enough as it is and forcing school districts to get even more bi-lingual teachers and text books takes away money that should be used for children that are legally here...

You do know that the amount of money undocumented immigrants put into our economy far out paces the amount of money they take out of government, right?

 

[spacejamz]

You do know that the amount of money undocumented immigrants put into our economy far out paces the amount of money they take out of government, right?

No they do not...According to a study I saw (and linked in another thread here last month), Illegal immigrants cost about $130B a year (in Federal and State Taxes) and they pay in about $30B a year...U.S. tax payers foot the remaining $100B....

I will find the article and post...where is your source?

 

[Carmen813]

No they do not...According to a study I saw (and linked in another thread here last month), Illegal immigrants cost about $130B a year (in Federal and State Taxes) and they pay in about $30B a year...U.S. tax payers foot the remaining $100B....

I will find the article and post...where is your source?

Please read what I said again.

 

[spacejamz]

Please read what I said again.

link to back up your assertion?


Here mine:

http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/usnews/immigration/5151-illegal-aliens-economic-consequences

 

[Deathhorse]

Wow lets divide America some more its too bad there are many people here that have options that are "white" that are doing nothing with their lives. Using welfare and doing side jobs sucking their own government dry.

 

[Carmen813]

You still haven't read what I said.

You do know that the amount of money undocumented immigrants put into our economy far out paces the amount of money they take out of government, right?

This is the abstract from one paper. You can do a Google search to find more information about it. Hard numbers are difficult to find because of the difficulty of researching this area, but most estimates peg their total net positive GDP figures at around $500 billion a year. Most conservative outlets I can find agree there is probably a somewhat small net positive GDP impact. There is a huge "hidden" economy fueled by undocumented workers. This impact is after accounting for money that is sent outside the U.S. and factoring in their costs to federal/state/local governments. The people harmed most are high school drop outs.

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=881584

This is a good link for seeing procs/cons:
http://immigration.procon.org/view.answers.php?questionID=000788

"First and foremost, [illegal immigration] it's a source of value added. The total goods and services that they consume through their paycheck, plus all that they produce for their employers, is close to about $800 billion. They're also producing at relatively lower costs because the undocumented population typically gets about 20% less in wages than if they were legalized. That leads to lower prices for us and higher profits to employers. In addition, they're obviously a huge consumer base. We've seen that 90% of the wages that the undocumented population gets are spent inside the U.S. Remittances are sent abroad, but that only represents about 10% of immigrants' income. The numbers are becoming quite huge. We estimate about $50 billion dollars in remittances this year. That means that total consumptive capacity remaining in the U.S. is $400 billion to $450 billion. If you took away the undocumented population, it would be the worst economic disaster in the history of the U.S."

Undocumented workers do pay taxes, most studies show between 50 and 75% do. Typically this is for benefits they will never be eligible for. Providing a path to citizenship, especially like this act does, will result in increasing that percentage. Do we really want to be sending away college graduates during dire economic conditions? Do we want to remove potential recruits when we are fighting two wars? It makes little sense to adopt that position only for principles sake, and it makes even less sense when you consider the fact that we've already paid to educate and train these individuals.

There is no reason to shoot ourselves to spite our own face.

 

[spacejamz]

Wow lets divide America some more its too bad there are many people here that have options that are "white" that are doing nothing with their lives. Using welfare and doing side jobs sucking their own government dry.

Nice strawman...

 

[spacejamz]

You still haven't read what I said.

This is the abstract from one paper. You can do a Google search to find more information about it. Hard numbers are difficult to find because of the difficulty of researching this area, but most estimates peg their total net positive GDP figures at around $500 billion a year. Most conservative outlets I can find agree there is probably a somewhat small net positive GDP impact. There is a huge "hidden" economy fueled by undocumented workers. This impact is after accounting for money that is sent outside the U.S. and factoring in their costs to federal/state/local governments. The people harmed most are high school drop outs.

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=881584

This is a good link for seeing procs/cons:
http://immigration.procon.org/view.answers.php?questionID=000788

Undocumented workers do pay taxes, most studies show between 50 and 75% do. Typically this is for benefits they will never be eligible for. Providing a path to citizenship, especially like this act does, will result in increasing that percentage. Do we really want to be sending away college graduates during dire economic conditions? Do we want to remove potential recruits when we are fighting two wars? It makes little sense to adopt that position only for principles sake, and it makes even less sense when you consider the fact that we've already paid to educate and train these individuals.

There is no reason to shoot ourselves to spite our own face.

That first link of that abstract is pretty much worthless (I would like to see the section of the paper that addresses this)...All I saw there is they 'supposedly' spent billions...nothing remotely concrete whatsoever...

Funny there is no mention of how much money gets sent back home either which is probably a good chunk of the Mexican economy...

 

[Carmen813]

That first link of that abstract is pretty much worthless (I would like to see the section of the paper that addresses this)...All I saw there is they 'supposedly' spent billions...nothing remotely concrete whatsoever...

Funny there is no mention of how much money gets sent back home either which is probably a good chunk of the Mexican economy...

I suggest you just spend more time reading about this issue, and reading about it from all perspectives. I'm not going to spoon feed you information, I provided some links to expand your knowledge but it's up to you to utilize it.

If you decide the only things in life that are accurate are those in which "concrete" information exists you are going to end up being disappointed. The world is not black and white, and even things that appear "concrete" are rarely so. Concrete information about the economic impact of undocumented workers is impossible to determine (then again, so is the economic impact of just about everything: case and point, find me concrete information about the economic impact the Bush tax cuts had). You need to read all the information available and come to your own conclusion.

Perhaps this link will provide you more sway, since it comes from the Wall Street Journal:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB114477669441223067.html

44 of 46 economists interviewed believed undocumented workers have a net positive impact on the economy.

 

[Thump553]

Frankly I'm surprised by the opposition to the Dream Act. Granted partisans tend to latch onto every issue and vehemently declare one side to be 100% right or wrong, but the Dream Act-at least as far as the military goes-seems to be a no brainer. It's like being against Mom and apple pie. And if someone puts themselves through college here, why shouldn't our society attempt to hold onto them and their skills?

 

[irishScott]

1. Secure the border.
2. Limited amnesty (ala dream act) for illegals already inside.

Not that hard a concept, but each party just has to stick to their platform.

 

[Carmen813]

Frankly I'm surprised by the opposition to the Dream Act. Granted partisans tend to latch onto every issue and vehemently declare one side to be 100% right or wrong, but the Dream Act-at least as far as the military goes-seems to be a no brainer. It's like being against Mom and apple pie. And if someone puts themselves through college here, why shouldn't our society attempt to hold onto them and their skills?

I understand the reasons against supporting it, I just feel that they are standing on principle rather than being pragmatic. That drives me nuts, which is probably why I find politics so infuriating.

 

[nixium]

Its unfair that illegals get citizenship for completing college when legal students on an f1 or j1 visa have to prove they have to go home at the end of study. Is there any point in following laws if the law breakers get rewarded? At this point, it's going to take me 15 more years to get citizenship, simply because of my country of birth. And this is after excelling in college and working productively.

It irritates me whn ignorant liberals just want to give away American citizenship like confetti. Sure, its just another talking point for you latte sipping elite, but you don't realize that your positions are a slap in the face to anyone who does things the legal way.

 

[Zebo]

Almost 20K posts and can't link? Fail. I am seeing a need for it

 

[Carmen813]

Its unfair that illegals get citizenship for completing college when legal students on an f1 or j1 visa have to prove they have to go home at the end of study. Is there any point in following laws if the law breakers get rewarded? At this point, it's going to take me 15 more years to get citizenship, simply because of my country of birth. And this is after excelling in college and working productively.

It irritates me whn ignorant liberals just want to give away American citizenship like confetti. Sure, its just another talking point for you latte sipping elite, but you don't realize that your positions are a slap in the face to anyone who does things the legal way.

Quickly, without doing a Google search, tell me what you think the DREAM act does?

 

[nixium]

Its unfair that illegals get citizenship for completing college when legal students on an f1 or j1 visa have to prove they have to go home at the end of study. Is there any point in following laws if the law breakers get rewarded? At this point, it's going to take me 15 more years to get citizenship, simply because of my country of birth. And this is after excelling in college and working productively.

It irritates me whn ignorant liberals just want to give away American citizenship like confetti. Sure, its just another talking point for you latte sipping elite, but you don't realize that your positions are a slap in the face to anyone who does things the legal way.

 

[Infohawk]

Six years of military service should MAYBE enough to get you citizenship.

How does enrolling in college entitle you to become a citizen. Even completing college shouldn't be enough.

 

[OutHouse]

just another sweetheart incentive/benifit to have more illegals flock to our country. WOOT keep it up congress you are doing a bang up job.

 

[OutHouse]

Its unfair that illegals get citizenship for completing college when legal students on an f1 or j1 visa have to prove they have to go home at the end of study. Is there any point in following laws if the law breakers get rewarded? At this point, it's going to take me 15 more years to get citizenship, simply because of my country of birth. And this is after excelling in college and working productively.

It irritates me whn ignorant liberals just want to give away American citizenship like confetti. Sure, its just another talking point for you latte sipping elite, but you don't realize that your positions are a slap in the face to anyone who does things the legal way.

great post.

 

[CanOWorms]

Its unfair that illegals get citizenship for completing college when legal students on an f1 or j1 visa have to prove they have to go home at the end of study. Is there any point in following laws if the law breakers get rewarded? At this point, it's going to take me 15 more years to get citizenship, simply because of my country of birth. And this is after excelling in college and working productively.

It irritates me whn ignorant liberals just want to give away American citizenship like confetti. Sure, its just another talking point for you latte sipping elite, but you don't realize that your positions are a slap in the face to anyone who does things the legal way.

An important difference is that the DREAM Act is for minors brought to the United States by their parents. They often have no connection from the country they were brought from. They don't speak the language, don't understand the culture, don't know anyone there, etc. Legal students make the decision to come when they're adults.

But I think that your overall point is something that needs to be remembered in the overall debate.