Dr. Who, Season 7 & 8

[Markbnj]

bingo!

Ohhh, I see. It's an old Who vs. new Who thing. I can be as hipster antiquarian as the next guy, but frankly, the new one is tons better.

 

[ImpulsE69]

I think those of us who grew up on Who have a soft spot for Tom Baker. I think the stories for the most part are a bit darker, a bit 'less' campy, and as a whole better than the old ones, but I still like Tom Baker the best.

 

[The Boston Dangler]

Ohhh, I see. It's an old Who vs. new Who thing. I can be as hipster antiquarian as the next guy, but frankly, the new one is tons better.

it's not about being an antiquarian hipster, it's that post-ecclestone dr. who is imo insultingly stupid. while the production value is absolutely first class, the writing is a mountain of brain damage.

 

[DigDog]

oh you guys ..

tom baker is everyone's fav because that was the first series of Who that was sold to syndication in the US.

Baker's Who is the biggest period of shovelware of who titles, but by no means the best.
(this is obvious since my opinion is different, and thus fact)

troughton was the best actor pre-reboot. his stories were also quite grim and tending towards science.

pertwee did away with the scary settings and made it funny, yet action oriented. monsters were almost kaiju-style.

baker was full on shovelware. a ton of really awkward special effects and really unlikely stories. he did have a few moments of genius, though.

with davidson they tried to make the world of who a bit more complex, realistic. much more timelord + backstory oriented.

colin baker... i don't know ... really weird. out of character.

baker was my first disappointment. i didn't like hartnell at all but the actors (and writers) that came after all seemed to portray ONE doctor, if different facets of him; baker was playing someone else. they tried that "regeneration gone wrong" thing but then kept going at it .. first bad who.

silvester mccoy and paul mcgann are not even real doctors, but i do like how they have woven these "missing characters" into the War Doctor.

after the reboot, eccleston was really good, and his supporting cast and the writing were all excellent. tennant was even better, but what is important is that it FLOWS. from one actor to the next, same character. and the same character that the pre-boot actors have played.

smith is just not the same character. and neither is capaldi. smith hiself is a charisma-less buffoon, but what is horrible is the writing, it's just not doctor who.
capaldi is literally not doing anything in most episodes. he can't communicate! he fails at everything! it's all clara doing the legwork.

and to add to that, the shift to the sidekicks being the lead characters is terrible, mainly because of how unlikeable (and unlikely) they are, and their acting skills leave a lot to be desired.

rory was terrible.. who wants to sympathise with a loser?
and the new river song .. omg. such a sweet, intelligent, tender character, totally destroyed.

 

[Markbnj]

it's not about being an antiquarian hipster, it's that post-ecclestone dr. who is imo insultingly stupid. while the production value is absolutely first class, the writing is a mountain of brain damage.

Oh, I don't know. As others have noted the whole Amy Pond story line, and especially the way it ended up with her and Rory, was really well done. Yeah they've overdone the stone angels and the Daleks, and even the basic mechanic of "the Doctor travels time and space with a pretty companion saving stuff" is starting to wear a bit. Maybe that's why Capaldi is playing such a crotchety old jerk.

 

[Markbnj]

it's all clara doing the legwork.

There's something cooking there. I don't know what it is because frankly the story line is quite confused. But in the last episode of 8 she

Spoiler

said she was the Doctor in order to confuse some cybermen.

 

[Crono]

There's something cooking there. I don't know what it is because frankly the story line is quite confused. But in the last episode of 8 she

Spoiler

said she was the Doctor in order to confuse some cybermen.

Explains why current Doctor is such a meanie. He split in two. :hmm:

 

[Exophase]

The whole "Impossible Girl" thing just seemed to die out in season 8. It was Matt Smith's main concern for awhile, and then I guess Capaldi couldn't really remember who she was. But they never seemed to revisit it in any detail. Maybe in season 9.

I felt like that (frankly pretty stupid) storyline was more or less resolved In Name of the Doctor. When it was explained by Clara entering that time portal in the Doctor's tomb to "fix" his timeline.

 

[Skel]

<snip>

after the reboot, eccleston was really good, and his supporting cast and the writing were all excellent. tennant was even better, but what is important is that it FLOWS. from one actor to the next, same character. and the same character that the pre-boot actors have played.

smith is just not the same character. and neither is capaldi. smith hiself is a charisma-less buffoon, but what is horrible is the writing, it's just not doctor who.
capaldi is literally not doing anything in most episodes. he can't communicate! he fails at everything! it's all clara doing the legwork.

and to add to that, the shift to the sidekicks being the lead characters is terrible, mainly because of how unlikeable (and unlikely) they are, and their acting skills leave a lot to be desired.

rory was terrible.. who wants to sympathise with a loser?
and the new river song .. omg. such a sweet, intelligent, tender character, totally destroyed.

I like your point on how things flowed until Moffat took over. At that point it was the companion show with it seeming like the Doctor needing to be saved more often than not. I thought it was really bad with Amy but then Clara showed up and showed me how it could be even worse. I sometimes think that Moffat hates men for some reason, as that would explain why the Doctor is more an idiot and needing the female companion to save him. River Song was another woman that he over powered. (seriously she knew how to fly the Tardis better than the Doctor?) She was a really interesting character until they felt the need to explain her more.

I felt like that (frankly pretty stupid) storyline was more or less resolved In Name of the Doctor. When it was explained by Clara entering that time portal in the Doctor's tomb to "fix" his timeline.

For whatever reason felt the need to put Clara in the middle of every thing the Doctor was or did. Then to top it off with the idea that she's the reason why he stopped being afraid of the unknown and became the Doctor was over the top stupid. I liked it better when the Doctor was the alien that was light years ahead of humans in knowledge. The newer Moffat versions of him seem to have flipped that so the humans are the ones figuring things out for him, at the least they're the ones always saving him.

 

[The Boston Dangler]

colin baker... i don't know ... really weird. out of character.

baker was my first disappointment. i didn't like hartnell at all but the actors (and writers) that came after all seemed to portray ONE doctor, if different facets of him; baker was playing someone else. they tried that "regeneration gone wrong" thing but then kept going at it .. first bad who.

have you seen "trial of a timelord"? the early segments are a bit sketchy, but the trial is excellent dr. who.

baker was full on shovelware. a ton of really awkward special effects and really unlikely stories. he did have a few moments of genius, though.

although there is some merit to tom baker being a favorite because he was the first to be seen in america, it really was great. don't worry about the cheesey special effects, the show was always cheesey with not enough budget. sarah jane smith was easily the best companion of all time - she was cute, smart, funny and viewers can always empathize with her. she was the perfect match for the doctor.

 

[ImpulsE69]

Colin Baker was the first Doctor I didn't really care for...and I didn't care for the guy right after him either (I forget who that was..wasn't in the list above). EDIT: sorry that was Sylvestor McCoy - not really clear on the 'not real doctor' comment for him.

But on that subject...

For those who watched the show as a kid and didn't know about regeneration at the time -- how much of a shock was it to you when Tom Baker died? I was like..wtf they killed him? He'll come back...and then..he did...but as some completely different person. My young mind was blown.

I remember watching the earlier ones sometime later and I liked those doctors as well, even though the story kind of changed over time.

 

[DigDog]

i might have gotten confused regarding sylvester mccoy; i was thinking of the film with mcgann, which i see more as a spin-off.
i actually can't remember any mccoy adventures, but if i remember correctly, the BBC basically cut the funding and did not back the series properly, so i would not criticize it as failed by the writers.

or i might be wrong entirely. i am not familiar with that particular cycle.

if you have missed them, there are three videos i recommend to everyone:

1. the three doctors
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x120tq3_the-three-doctors-part1_shortfilms
shows troughton in color and at his best.

2. the five doctors
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2gtmcz
which is actually four, since baker could not be arsed to act on in. a bit of a mishmash if you will, but it's great to compare the various cast members.

3. the curse of fatal death
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Do-wDPoC6GM

Spoiler

just damn watch it!

 

[The Boston Dangler]

i actually can't remember any mccoy adventures, but if i remember correctly, the BBC basically cut the funding and did not back the series properly, so i would not criticize it as failed by the writers.

they got into a downward spiral of crap funding / writing from the peter davidson era onwards. they went on badly too long before pulling the plug. baker and mccoy can hardly be blamed for the mess they inherited. baker nearly quit after seeing the ridiculous coat he had to wear.

 

[Scooby Doo]

The last few episodes with McCoy were pretty good, too bad it was cutshort.

 

[MongGrel]

I'll always just have to plead ignorance on anything Dr Who I guess over the years, though I know of the rotating thing about like James Bond.

I have watched way more Red Dwarf over time.

 

[Markbnj]

I'll always just have to plead ignorance on anything Dr Who I guess over the years, though I know of the rotating thing about like James Bond.

I have watched way more Red Dwarf over time.

Been on over half a century at this point. You should give it a shot. It's like a keystone of nerd culture.

 

[ViRGE]

I like your point on how things flowed until Moffat took over. At that point it was the companion show with it seeming like the Doctor needing to be saved more often than not. I thought it was really bad with Amy but then Clara showed up and showed me how it could be even worse. I sometimes think that Moffat hates men for some reason, as that would explain why the Doctor is more an idiot and needing the female companion to save him. River Song was another woman that he over powered. (seriously she knew how to fly the Tardis better than the Doctor?) She was a really interesting character until they felt the need to explain her more.

Personally I haven't been able to get into the show since Moffat took over. He wrote some great episodes under RTD, but as a showrunner the show has become, I don't know quite how to put it, more convoluted, silly, and less exciting? RTD's era featured relatively simple, high action stories. Moffat seems to waver between spinning fairly tales and plots that are so intricate that they're dumb.

I like the Doctors, but I think it's going to take a new showrunner to have a chance to get me interested again.