Dozens of Muslim groups take out full page ads denouncing terrorism

[alchemize]

Oh wait a minute - I misread that.

No, they took out full page ads denouncing the policies of the UK/Blair. Hello, victimization and blackmail, goodbye any sense of responsibility for your community!

Just yesterday, dozens of established British Muslim groups bought full-page ads in London papers denouncing the policies of Prime Minister Tony Blair. "It is our view that current British government policy risks putting civilians at increased risk both in the U.K. and abroad," the ad stated in an open letter to Blair. "The debacle of Iraq and now the failure to do more to secure an immediate end to the attacks on civilians in the Middle East ... is also ammunition to extremists who threaten us all."

Link


I wonder if christian groups took out full page ads excusing abortion clinic/Olympics bombings because of Clinton's policy?

But it's not just the crackdown on local terror suspects that has people here angry. Ahmed Versi, editor of the London-based Muslim News, said some of the rhetoric used to denounce the suspected terror plot has led already to an outpouring of concern among his readers. He pointed in particular to President George W. Bush's reference this week to "Islamic fascists" tied to the plot.

If the shoe fits...

In other news, rape victims blamed for "being too sexy", robbery victims for "having more money" than those who rob.

 

[yllus]

LOL @ the topic title and then the first line of the post.

 

[DealMonkey]

Well, I don't see Jewish groups taking out full page ads denouncing Israel's leveling of apartment buildings full of women and children either. Isn't it obvious? Muslims are on the same team with other Muslims. Jews with Jews. Americans with Americans. I don't see you bemoaning the deaths of tens of thousands of Iraqi civilians, but I know you shed a tear when a US Serviceman is KIA. See where this is all going?

 

[rsd]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Well, I don't see Jewish groups taking out full page ads denouncing Israel's leveling of apartment buildings full of women and children either. Isn't it obvious? Muslims are on the same team with other Muslims. Jews with Jews. Americans with Americans. I don't see you bemoaning the deaths of tens of thousands of Iraqi civilians, but I know you shed a tear when a US Serviceman is KIA. See where this is all going?

So British born Muslims aren't British then? (And apparently many of them according to the poll don't consider themselves to be).

 

[Kwaipie]

Originally posted by: rsd

So British born Muslims aren't British then? (And apparently many of them according to the poll don't consider themselves to be).

My understanding is that they are Muslim first.

/generalization

 

[Polish3d]

Originally posted by: Kwaipie

Originally posted by: rsd

So British born Muslims aren't British then? (And apparently many of them according to the poll don't consider themselves to be).

My understanding is that they are Muslim first.

/generalization

From my reading, this is correct. Which is bothersome

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Well, I don't see Jewish groups taking out full page ads denouncing Israel's leveling of apartment buildings full of women and children either. Isn't it obvious? Muslims are on the same team with other Muslims. Jews with Jews. Americans with Americans. I don't see you bemoaning the deaths of tens of thousands of Iraqi civilians, but I know you shed a tear when a US Serviceman is KIA. See where this is all going?

Hmm....

"On July 6, in a full-page ad in The Times of London, 300 British Jews cried out against the collective punishment of the people of Gaza with the anguished question, 'What is Israel doing?' Several weeks later, as the Middle East sinks deeper into chaos, that question is ever more urgent," reads the statement featured in the advertisement.

Link


And for the record, I do bemoan the deaths of any civilian, especially women and children, Iraqi or otherwise. I also have enough sanity to recognize that there is quite a difference between civilian deaths occurring in a war zone, and civilian deaths occurring when targeted by terrorists outside any war zone. The insane animals don't recognize this, and probably never will as this advertisement indicates.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Well, I don't see Jewish groups taking out full page ads denouncing Israel's leveling of apartment buildings full of women and children either. Isn't it obvious? Muslims are on the same team with other Muslims. Jews with Jews. Americans with Americans. I don't see you bemoaning the deaths of tens of thousands of Iraqi civilians, but I know you shed a tear when a US Serviceman is KIA. See where this is all going?

I agree that it is a terrible thing when terrorist groups wage war for the express purpose of killing themselves, their own people, and the civilians of other countries. However, blaming the country they attack for fighting back is only going to promote more attacks and more bloodshed.

Yes, Israel has killed civilians, they aren?t just surrendering to Hizbollah and that is the price of such action. In the end it comes down to Israel being the state fighting with its army, and Lebanon is fighting Israel while hiding behind its women and children. So with such a tactic, of course they are going to get killed.

If Lebanon does not wish itself slaughtered, it should not wage war, and it should not hide behind its people.

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Well, I don't see Jewish groups taking out full page ads denouncing Israel's leveling of apartment buildings full of women and children either. Isn't it obvious? Muslims are on the same team with other Muslims. Jews with Jews. Americans with Americans. I don't see you bemoaning the deaths of tens of thousands of Iraqi civilians, but I know you shed a tear when a US Serviceman is KIA. See where this is all going?

Hmm....

"On July 6, in a full-page ad in The Times of London, 300 British Jews cried out against the collective punishment of the people of Gaza with the anguished question, 'What is Israel doing?' Several weeks later, as the Middle East sinks deeper into chaos, that question is ever more urgent," reads the statement featured in the advertisement.

Link


And for the record, I do bemoan the deaths of any civilian, especially women and children, Iraqi or otherwise. I also have enough sanity to recognize that there is quite a difference between civilian deaths occurring in a war zone, and civilian deaths occurring when targeted by terrorists outside any war zone. The insane animals don't recognize this, and probably never will as this advertisement indicates.

Point taken.

In any event, I'm just trying to illustrate that the Muslims are with the other Muslims first and the UK 2nd. They also probably do not differentiate between terrorists attacks and smart bomb attacks by Israeli aircraft. In the end, a dead child is a dead child. And finally, by extension, they view what we call "terrorist attacks" by Hezbolla, as "revenge" or "retribution." So it's a never-ending cycle of violence.

I think it pays to understand the way these so-called "moderate Muslims" think.

But it's not just them who is guilty of this. A great many Americans, from the average joe on the street, to Congress and all the way to the White House, care more about our soldiers who are killed or injured in Iraq than they do the tens of thousands of Iraqi civilians who have died.

And yet you're pointing your finger at the Muslims? It goes both ways.

 

[Aisengard]

The difference is there are a ton of Americans who actually care about the lives of Iraqis, and put the blame of any loss of life in its rightful place.

I see no Muslim 'moderates' taking these steps. At all. And that is a problem.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Frackal

Originally posted by: Kwaipie

Originally posted by: rsd

So British born Muslims aren't British then? (And apparently many of them according to the poll don't consider themselves to be).

My understanding is that they are Muslim first.

/generalization

From my reading, this is correct. Which is bothersome

Then you really must dislike Christians, eh?

 

[General Texas]

The American people do not like to see civilians dead. The military, tries to avoid it. When civilians are harmed intentionally, the people responsible get charged with murder. The Israel government warns civilians in Lebanon their area will be attacked. They too try to avoid civilian deaths as much as possible. However, somebody is an idiot if they believe there will be zero civilian deaths.

Where the Muslims differ though, is they target civilians. They will not only target civilians to begin with, they will launch rockets at rescue people.

I used to believe there were many moderate Muslims in the world, only a few terrorists. Then I thought, why aren't they standing up against terrorists? Well, perhaps they have better things to do. Then, a newspaper draws a cartoon and they protest and riot for a few days or weeks. Lots of them. So, when a Muslim intentionally blows up civilians there is nothing but silence. However somebody draws a cartoon and millions riot. Yea, I lost respect for them that day.

Oh yea, there would of been a lot less civilian deaths in Lebanon if the terrorists weren't using civilians as shields. Barbarians use those type of tatics.

Once Israel starts to intentionally target civilians, then we can call them terrorists.

 

[daniel49]

Media was advertising a peace march here in Seattle by Muslims also making it sound like a great thing.
This was after the shooting at the Jewish Federation building.
As I watched media coverage on it, including interviews with the organizers and read newspaper accounts of it. It seems to break down about like this though:


1) Don't label people like the Americam Muslim shooter as being Muslim because it gives a poor picture of us and makes us afraid. (70% of message)
2)Peace against the Violence in Lebanon.(28% of message)
3) Oh yes and we don't condone terror (2% of message)

My argument is that if #3 was thier top priority numbers 1 and 2 in that list would manage themselves.

 

[jpeyton]

OMG! Newspaper advertisements! I hope we're at Orange Alert level today! :roll:

 

[daniel49]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
OMG! Newspaper advertisements! I hope we're at Orange Alert level today! :roll:

way to miss OP's entire point of taking responsability for your community.

 

[Polish3d]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Frackal

Originally posted by: Kwaipie

Originally posted by: rsd

So British born Muslims aren't British then? (And apparently many of them according to the poll don't consider themselves to be).

My understanding is that they are Muslim first.

/generalization

From my reading, this is correct. Which is bothersome

Then you really must dislike Christians, eh?

We are currently upgrading our server to a faster processor for enhanced performance. Please check back shortly.

 

[ITJunkie]

Originally posted by: Aisengard
The difference is there are a ton of Americans who actually care about the lives of Iraqis, and put the blame of any loss of life in its rightful place.

I see no Muslim 'moderates' taking these steps. At all. And that is a problem.

I've been thinking that same thing for some time now. Where are they? I here lots of them talk, denouncing terrorism yet it all seems to be lip service. I'd like to believe they are out there telling their fellow muslims to stop but are they?

 

[DealMonkey]

As I've been trying to indicate, perhaps even moderate Muslims have become so outraged by the US, the UK and Israel that they are starting to view attacks by Hezbolla, Hamas and other groups as something these countries deserve. They've witnessed tens of thousands of Iraqis killed since March 2003. How many Palestinians killed? How many Lebanese killed? It's too bad that we're losing the moderate Muslim community. I would think strategically in a WoT-sense, having their opinion on your side would be a tremendously powerful thing.

 

[alchemize]

I guess they aren't really moderates then, are they.

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: daniel49

Originally posted by: jpeyton
OMG! Newspaper advertisements! I hope we're at Orange Alert level today! :roll:

way to miss OP's entire point of taking responsability for your community.

Let's see:

Is Iraq a debacle? Yes.

Were 700 civilians killed by the Israeli army in Lebanon? Yes.

Looks like these ads have some valid points.

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: alchemize
I guess they aren't really moderates then, are they.

I guess not. As some d!psh!t said, "You're either with us or against us in the fight against terror." America's image must be looking pretty tarnished these days for the Muslims to have chosen the side they did. Sucks when you give people a choice and then they make the 'wrong' one.

 

[f95toli]

I haven't really checked who signed the open letters.
However, at least some of the people who signed are not just "some muslims". but members of the Preventing Extremism Taskforce, a taskforce organized by the government and closely connected to Whitehall.

Basically what they are saying (and have been saying for some time) is that YES more muslims must speak out agains terrorism and YES community leaders need to do more to prevent young people from getting caught up in terrorism.
No one has been arguing against that.

The "problem" has been that many muslim leaders (and I am now refering to well established members of british society) have ALSO been saying that one major cause for terrorism is british foreing policy. Hence, they have been calling for a rethink of said policy.
I must say I think that is a perfecly valid point and a lot of people in britain (including a number of prominent MPs) agrees with them.

As one muslim leader put it

"You have young people who perceive that our foreign policy is a war against a religion. Anybody knows that if you try to fight a religion it will only get stronger."

Listening to the kind of BS Bush (and too often Blair) has been saying lately I can actually understand WHY they feel this way. When you use retoric which contains quasi-religious rethoric about "Good" and "evil" (The "good guys" always being western, christian, countries) and various "ideologies" this is whay you get.

What is needed is a more pragmatic foreign policy where we care less WHO we are talking to and more WHAT we are talking about. Forget good and evil and start dealing with the real issues.

 

[Termagant]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: alchemize
I guess they aren't really moderates then, are they.

I guess not. As some d!psh!t said, "You're either with us or against us in the fight against terror." America's image must be looking pretty tarnished these days for the Muslims to have chosen the side they did. Sucks when you give people a choice and then they make the 'wrong' one.

Yawn.... blame America 1st episode #10650395.

Nice title OP :laugh:

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: alchemize
I guess they aren't really moderates then, are they.

I guess not. As some d!psh!t said, "You're either with us or against us in the fight against terror." America's image must be looking pretty tarnished these days for the Muslims to have chosen the side they did. Sucks when you give people a choice and then they make the 'wrong' one.

Just took them a while longer to make the inevitable choice (although I would argue they made the choice well before 9/11, and just now are becoming vocal about it). I don't think a democratic and free society and islam (in it's current state) can exist together.

 

[5150Joker]

Originally posted by: Frackal

Originally posted by: Kwaipie

Originally posted by: rsd

So British born Muslims aren't British then? (And apparently many of them according to the poll don't consider themselves to be).

My understanding is that they are Muslim first.

/generalization

From my reading, this is correct. Which is bothersome

Jews that are pro-Israel are far worse. They put Israel and their Jewish identity far above anything else including being American or whatever other country they reside in. I don't see anyone else finding that "bothersome", especially the hypocrites that criticize Muslims. Dual citizenship is something a lot of Jews have with Israel which is split loyalty or rather loyalty only to Israel with a convenient citizenship in the USA.