Downgrade Windows 8?

[Meractik]

I just evaluated windows 8 with technet and I purchased a new PC for a gift for someone that has a Windows 8 OEM installation - I am wondering if anyone knows if its possible to downgrade the Windows 8 OEM install to Windows 7?

The person receiving the gift of the laptop would be much better suited to use windows 7 because of a 'learning curve' I want them to be productive and get to work rather then have to figure out a whole new interface etc... as they're used to working with mostly windows XP.

Any information anyone can provide would be greatly appreciated.... thx I haven't opened the box of the laptop yet but I am totally assuming it would boot the machine and ask to input a CD-KEY.... is there a way I can pre-emptively boot and install windows 7 and utilize the key on that installation instead of the default windows 8 install?

 

[lopri]

Maybe this page can help. Downgrade seems limited only to "Pro" version of Windows 8

http://www.microsoft.com/oem/en/licensing/sblicensing/pages/downgrade_rights.aspx#fbid=nFarl-zzh4l

Don't you have like 10 keys per garden variety of different Windows 7 versions that Technet gives you? Starter, Home basic, Home Premium, Pro, Enterprise, Ultimate,.. Why not use one of those? Granted it's a legally gray area but I do not think MS will come after you.

 

[Meractik]

Maybe this page can help. Downgrade seems limited only to "Pro" version of Windows 8

http://www.microsoft.com/oem/en/licensing/sblicensing/pages/downgrade_rights.aspx#fbid=nFarl-zzh4l

Don't you have like 10 keys per garden variety of different Windows 7 versions that Technet gives you? Starter, Home basic, Home Premium, Pro, Enterprise, Ultimate,.. Why not use one of those? Granted it's a legally gray area but I do not think MS will come after you.

I agree with you but, since this is a gift and its not for me.... I am looking at other avenue's I just may take that route. but id like a smooth transition first if I can.

Edit: Upon looking at the box it states OS as "Win 8 MM" any idea what that is? might not be pro in which case I might not be downgrade eligible....

 

[VirtualLarry]

Thanks to a new UEFI feature called "Secure Boot", you may not even be able to put Windows 7 on that laptop. Laptops with Secure Boot enabled in BIOS, use crypto to prevent any other OS other than Windows 8 (and sucessors?) to boot. No Win7, no Linux, etc.

 

[Meractik]

Thanks to a new UEFI feature called "Secure Boot", you may not even be able to put Windows 7 on that laptop. Laptops with Secure Boot enabled in BIOS, use crypto to prevent any other OS other than Windows 8 (and sucessors?) to boot. No Win7, no Linux, etc.

You can't turn that off in the BIOS? I still haven't opened the box... but if that is the case I might just return the laptop, I only have 15 days to do so and will have to pay a restocking fee If i open it and break the blue tag seal....

Could you provide more information on this? I am scared to open it now.... the Laptop is the
Lenovo G580 model 20157

 

[Rhonda the Sly]

The certification for Windows 8 x86 requires that SecureBoot have a toggle in BIOS. So, yes, you will be able to turn SecureBoot off.

 

[Meractik]

The certification for Windows 8 x86 requires that SecureBoot have a toggle in BIOS. So, yes, you will be able to turn SecureBoot off.

Im reading some other stuff provided by VirtualLarry talking about other people who are getting locked out of their bios and unable to boot to media and install another OS... are you familiar with anything like this?

http://www.eightforums.com/installa...-happens-when-you-delete-efi-partition-3.html

 

[Meractik]

bump

 

[Meractik]

So i just got off the phone with microsoft about this issue and even though the UEFI is implemented on this machine they're saying that its utilized to "increase disk space support" and the SecureBoot option is what limits the downgrade of win8 to windows 7 which in there mind can be turned off in bios, which matches with what Rhonda_the_sly is saying.... but now the question is, according to microsoft I can obtain a windows 7 retail installation and have no problem booting and installing it on this system.

As mentioned earlier... I have a technet subscription... I can very easily obtain windows 7 and a key (although I am unsure if its retail....) i have not opened the box yet as If i fail at these motives to downgrade I will have to pay a 15% restocking fee at this point. I could simply wash my hands of this notebook and return it for a full refund, I have 13 days left to do so....


So...... what'll I DO?!?!?!? how much hope do you guys have in the fact that what im being told is true, Lenovo support says I need to call microsoft and obtain a "shrink wrapped license" but microsoft says when i mention that term that shrink wrapped license is only able to be used in 'UPGRADES' not downgrades of OS installs.....

MS claims my only option is to purchase windows 7 retail and boot and install and it should work, they claim that I might not even need to mess with the UEFI or secureboot options...

As mentioned earlier the notebook still remains un-opened until I can get some more info (thats where you guys come into play....) surely someoen has more experience with this than I....

 

[colonelciller]

microsoft is becoming a total turd... is this kind of crap the future?

i'd return it and buy a computer with windows 7 on it while you can still find them. why take the chance?
15% is a big risk and I guarantee that nobody is going to cut you a check if this experiment in "unlocking" your computer doesn't work.

locking down the computer like that is just plain f'ing stupid... but a great way to keep the vast majority of folks stuck with win metro.

 

[Meractik]

microsoft is becoming a total turd... is this kind of crap the future?

i'd return it and buy a computer with windows 7 on it while you can still find them. why take the chance?
15% is a big risk and I guarantee that nobody is going to cut you a check if this experiment in "unlocking" your computer doesn't work.

locking down the computer like that is just plain f'ing stupid... but a great way to keep the vast majority of folks stuck with win metro.

I am slowly considering that but I got a real great deal on it and the newegg/tigerdirect acer versions of the same pc's are OOS and I don't want to get less than what I purchased in terms of performance/hardware for more $....

I bought it at fry's and even when i called and discussed exchanging with them they stated "we have no other laptops/notebooks at that price range that have windows 7, most of our products are all upgraded and pushing windows 8."

lots of very nice equal value acers on newegg with win7 but like I said O.O.S....

 

[KillerBee]

You could leave Win8 on it and install Hyper-V to run Win7 with one of your other keys
(they may even like Win8 for some weird reason)

http://winsupersite.com/article/windows8/windows-8-feature-focus-client-hyperv-142889

 

[Meractik]

You could leave Win8 on it and install Hyper-V to run Win7
(they may even like Win8 for some weird reason)

http://winsupersite.com/article/windows8/windows-8-feature-focus-client-hyperv-142889

Its not for me, that avenue is beyond the scope of the person whom I plan on gifting it too.... for all I know this person might be perfectly OK with windows 8... but if they can't figure out how to use it (since the machine is not a touch interface, nor are they familiar) I Know they'll call me, and i installed windows 8 the other day on a virtual machine and messed with it and personally even I found things to be hard to find and navigate....

It doesn't look as though I will be able to return the laptop and successfully get another one of equal value and hardware specs to put windows 7 on....

 

[ViRGE]

So i just got off the phone with microsoft about this issue and even though the UEFI is implemented on this machine they're saying that its utilized to "increase disk space support" and the SecureBoot option is what limits the downgrade of win8 to windows 7 which in there mind can be turned off in bios, which matches with what Rhonda_the_sly is saying.... but now the question is, according to microsoft I can obtain a windows 7 retail installation and have no problem booting and installing it on this system.

As mentioned earlier... I have a technet subscription... I can very easily obtain windows 7 and a key (although I am unsure if its retail....) i have not opened the box yet as If i fail at these motives to downgrade I will have to pay a 15% restocking fee at this point. I could simply wash my hands of this notebook and return it for a full refund, I have 13 days left to do so....


So...... what'll I DO?!?!?!? how much hope do you guys have in the fact that what im being told is true, Lenovo support says I need to call microsoft and obtain a "shrink wrapped license" but microsoft says when i mention that term that shrink wrapped license is only able to be used in 'UPGRADES' not downgrades of OS installs.....

MS claims my only option is to purchase windows 7 retail and boot and install and it should work, they claim that I might not even need to mess with the UEFI or secureboot options...

As mentioned earlier the notebook still remains un-opened until I can get some more info (thats where you guys come into play....) surely someoen has more experience with this than I....

"Shrink wrapped license" has nothing to do with this. Either you can install Windows 7 or you can't; your TechNet copy will do just fine. Ultimately if it doesn't work then it's not a Windows issue, it's a Lenovo issue as it means Lenovo would have screwed up something.

 

[KillerBee]

Yes it's unfortunate that Win8 isn't going away though.
Have you run Win2012 server? it's almost as bad as win8 - but no choice now so might as well learn it

 

[Meractik]

Yes it's unfortunate that Win8 isn't going away though.
Have you run Win2012 server? it's almost as bad as win8 - but no choice now

I haven't... but I planned on seeking certs with it within the next yr... previous education revolved around windows server 2k/2003 mostly..

 

[Rhonda the Sly]

The Lenovo G580 seems to have shipped with Windows 7 at a prior point, and has Windows 7 drivers available. The only stickler would be the license, TechNet licenses are only legal for evaluation purposes.



Windows supports UEFI as far back as Vista but 7 and 8 don't support UEFI 2.2 with SecureBoot. Simply disable SecureBoot and you should be able to boot Windows 7 fine.

 

[Meractik]

"Shrink wrapped license" has nothing to do with this. Either you can install Windows 7 or you can't; your TechNet copy will do just fine. Ultimately if it doesn't work then it's not a Windows issue, it's a Lenovo issue as it means Lenovo would have screwed up something.

I feel like I am getting the run around when I call support, the lenovo support guys are telling me I need a special cd key from microsoft to make it work, I call microsoft and they tell me that I should just be able to install windows 7 retail straight, as long as the key is not used on another system, and the UEFI shouldn't be an issue at all.... Kind of wondering if anyone has tested this and been able to do it in the past with machines with UEFI/Secure Boot technologies... as apparantly this isn't a new thing, even windows 7 machines had it when windows 7 came out according to microsoft.... I just don't buy the newest stuff every year so up until now I never ran into this sort of issue where software activation was linked to hardware.

 

[Meractik]

The Lenovo G580 seems to have shipped with Windows 7 at a prior point, and has Windows 7 drivers available. The only stickler would be the license, TechNet licenses are only legal for evaluation purposes.



Windows supports UEFI as far back as Vista but 7 and 8 don't support UEFI 2.2 with SecureBoot. Simply disable SecureBoot and you should be able to boot Windows 7 fine.

Sounds promising..... When I contacted Lenovo they did show me the specific web-site from which to gain the windows 7 drivers for the machine... only thing left is to pull the plug and take the jump to make it all happen by downgrading, once I pop the top on the box though thats $50.00 ill never get back should things all come falling apart lol.... How confident do you feel in your recommendations? gimmie a percentage 1-100?

 

[Meractik]

I Keep messing with windows 8 in my virtual environment and man.... I can't be productive at all, its so sad I almost feel as though they should of just released Windows RT left the desktop realm alone and just did a Windows 7 SP2/3 or something to roll out the improvements on the 'under-the-hood' aspects

 

[Steltek]

I'd just purchase a copy of Start8 or Startisback for the Win8 machine. For an XP user, Classic Shell might even be the way to go (depending upon which start menu they are using in XP). It will be way cheaper than either the restocking fee or a Win7 license. The machine will be, for all intents and purposes, close enough to Win7 to mostly eliminate the learning and productivity curve for a home user. And, in the future, if the new owner wants to try out the touch interface, it will be there waiting.

Granted, Win8 currently has some significant driver issues (just like Vista and even Win7 did before it), but that WILL improve with time. Underneath its godawful dreck of a user interface, Win8 is actually a significantly more technically advanced OS than is Win7.

Try it out on your Win8 test system - you really have nothing to loose.

If you decide to do the return route, you could also try to call Lenovo and ask if it would be possible to downgrade to Win7 in lieu of returning the machine. Again, nothing to loose by asking.

 

[Meractik]

I'd just purchase a copy of Start8 or Startisback for the Win8 machine. It will be way cheaper than either the restocking fee or a Win7 license. The machine will be, for all intents and purposes, close enough to Win7 to mostly eliminate the learning and productivity curve for a home user. And, in the future, if the new owner wants to try out the touch interface, it will be there waiting.

Granted, Win8 currently has some significant driver issues (just like Vista and even Win7 did before it), but that WILL improve with time. Underneath its godawful dreck of a user interface, Win8 is actually a significantly more technically advanced OS than is Win7.

Try it out on your Win8 test system - you have nothing to loose.

This notebook does not have a touch interface, they just put windows 8 on it anyways. the screens a regular screen. its win8 with keyboard/mouse. I will try out those apps with my virtual environment though and see how it works out, thanks.

 

[Steltek]

This notebook does not have a touch interface, they just put windows 8 on it anyways. the screens a regular screen. its win8 with keyboard/mouse.

They are pretty much putting it on everything now regardless of whether it has a touch interface or not (sort of like they did with Vista, shoehorning it onto systems that had no business even trying to run it). The only major difference I see between Win8 with a start menu replacement and Win7 is the loss of Aero Glass (something the user obviously won't miss if he/she has no experience with it).

 

[Meractik]

They are pretty much putting it on everything now regardless of whether it has a touch interface or not (sort of like they did with Vista, shoehorning it onto systems that had no business even trying to run it). The only major difference I see between Win8 with a start menu replacement and Win7 is the loss of Aero Glass (something the user obviously won't miss if he/she has no experience with it).

this start8 application is cool, does exactly what im missing... is it possible with windows 8 to turn off the start to the metro screen? instead just boot up and push the user right to the desktop?

 

[Steltek]

this start8 application is cool, does exactly what im missing... is it possible with windows 8 to turn off the start to the metro screen? instead just boot up and push the user right to the desktop?

It isn't possible to totally disable the metro interface. However, there is an application setting in the Start8 settings (I honestly don't remember where, as I don't currently have a Win8 VM installed) which causes Win8 to boot straight to desktop at startup (the Start screen does flash once, though, before it goes to desktop).

If you don't ever want to see a Start screen, you might want to try StartIsBack as they advertise this specific capability. License is also cheaper (you can get 2 licenses for $3 or 5 licenses for $5).

http://www.startisback.com/#features-tab