Dow tumbles more than 800 points. How ugly will this get?

[UNCjigga]

Anyone nearing/at retirement better get the fuck out of the market.

Over half of those retirees and near retirees voted for this in the first place...let them suffer.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

healthy markets aren't volatile and volatile markets aren't healthy.

Nope. Wrong. Full of shit 101.

The VIX (An actual measurement of volatility) was way higher under Obama than it is now (or under Trump in general). Volatility != healthy or unhealthy. Try again dipshit.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

I hope everyone is prepared. I am prepped with 2 years of expenditures in cash. Im going to also stop my 401k until this volatility passes.

Don't stop your 401k. At the most, reduce it to whatever the max amount is for your company match. It's free money.

Most American families can't come up with $400 in cash to cover an emergency. Figure it out from there. I'm mostly lucky to be better off.

Predatory capitalism goes for the weakest members of the herd first but everybody is ultimately on the menu.

And the majority of "middle class" america can't park in their garage because it's full of consumer shit. Yes... yes.. good little consumer... buy more shit that you don't need because reasons.

 

[K1052]

I have one main question for the folks here: The leftist media (and unsurprisingly/subsequently all the leftist shills here) are saying "Tariffs are BAD! That means americans pay more! BAD FOR AMERICA!".

All reputable economists and business leaders say this explicitly.

So if tariffs are in fact bad for the originating country, why is the response from China to enact retaliatory tariffs? I mean, if tariffs are bad, why would they impose them on their own people.

Because that's how it works. Every action generates reaction. China has more than simply money on the line now anyway. Trump wants to humiliate them and that's not going to happen.

The answer is that anyone who says "Tariffs are bad" by default are simply too fucking dumb to think outside of OMG WE MIGHT PAY MORE ON A PRODUCT! Christ, take a fucking economics 101 class and understand that global trade isn't limited to 1 country. This is a global economy, this isn't 3D Chess this is 3543246724D Chess. And if you think you will know the exact effects of every economical move then that is just laughable. Majority of folks in here don't even hold a business degree let alone one in economics.

We can obviously buy some items from other countries at higher costs. Those cost are passed on to consumers who will eventually be able to buy fewer things, thus slowing the economy. Slowing the economy for basically no reason...is bad.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Now admittedly I am no export on this stuff but my plan is dump a ton of money into my 401k and IRA when shit goes down.

The question I have is how should I do this? Am I correct that 401k's have a 15k yearly contribution limit? What about IRA's? Should I also change my plan focus to be more stock heavy than it is now?

Because I believe investing in any one particular stock as risky, what about investing in an index fund? Does anyone have any recommendations of which index fund or who to trade through?


A little off topic I know

The maximum contribution for a year (as of 2019) is $19,000, with additional "catch-up" contributions if you are 55 or older. In addition to the $19,000 your employer can contribute more as well.

For IRAs, if you are able to "pump" a lot of money, then I presume you aren't eligible for a traditional IRA tax benefits. Thus a ROTH IRA currently has a maximum contribution of $6,000.

Make sure to account for your spouse as well.

Index funds in general is the way to go. The lower the cost of holding the fund (expense ratio) is likely the better option.

 

[cytg111]

I have one main question for the folks here: The leftist media (and unsurprisingly/subsequently all the leftist shills here) are saying "Tariffs are BAD! That means americans pay more! BAD FOR AMERICA!".

So if tariffs are in fact bad for the originating country, why is the response from China to enact retaliatory tariffs? I mean, if tariffs are bad, why would they impose them on their own people? If were shooting ourselves in the foot, why are they shooting themselves in the foot?

The answer is that anyone who says "Tariffs are bad" by default are simply too fucking dumb to think outside of OMG WE MIGHT PAY MORE ON A PRODUCT! Christ, take a fucking economics 101 class and understand that global trade isn't limited to 1 country. This is a global economy, this isn't 3D Chess this is 3543246724D Chess. And if you think you will know the exact effects of every economical move then that is just laughable. Majority of folks in here don't even hold a business degree let alone one in economics.

I know this is how Trump looses the trade war: People pay more for a product, economy in recession, people vote Trump out, new pres cancels trade war, trade war lost.
That is short term
Long term is the world is beginning to work the world economy without the US. That is the knockout punch.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

I'm overgeneralizing, but you cannot back-contribute to your tax advantaged retirement accounts, certainly not in 401K.

This advice goes out to everybody - keep contributing to your 401K for the match and tax deductions. If you're convinced that large market drop is imminent keep contributing and simply direct your contributions into short term treasuries so that they won't lose value in a market crash. Then if you feel like the worst is over you can rebalance all the cash you've been collecting in your 401K accounts to stocks. I'm not actually advocating anybody trying to time the market, but whatever you do, just keep contributing into your 401Ks/IRAs/RothIRAs and do not take any money out in case of a crash.

At least someone here knows a thing or two. Well said for most folks here that don't have much knowledge in this field.

 

[Balt]

If you're anywhere close to retirement, it might be the time to lock in some of the gains of the last 10+ years and invest more conservatively.

If you aren't close to retirement, just keep investing your 401k in an aggressive fund and enjoy the chance to get some cheaper prices on the dips. Don't do something foolish like trying to time the market, and always invest at least as much as it takes to max out your employer's match.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

And what if you're retired & depend on your investments to maintain your lifestyle? You end up drawing down the principal further than it fell, weakening your ability to recover.

To a certain extent yes, but as you draw closer to retirement you should have the wherewithall to understand that you need to reduce your risk. Less risk = less return. Thus the older you get, the more you move your investments from stocks to bonds. In addition, if you're ACTUALLY RETIRED you should have a portion of your retirement account that is ACTUAL CASH. T

hus if a major market crash occurs, you can rely on the assets that dropped in value the least.

If you didn't do things like that then it's well.. your own fault for not informing yourself of your investments.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

If you're anywhere close to retirement, it might be the time to lock in some of the gains of the last 10+ years and invest more conservatively.

If you aren't close to retirement, just keep investing your 401k in an aggressive fund and enjoy the chance to get some cheaper prices on the dips. Don't do something foolish like trying to time the market, and always invest at least as much as it takes to max out your employer's match.

"trying to catch a falling knife" is the best phrasing of it.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Yup, if you are able to consistently time the market then you should quit whatever job you are doing currently and start managing a portfolio because you'll make a lot more money that way.

There are large numbers of people paid huge sums of money, leveraging almost unimaginable resources working 24 hours a day for the sole purpose of being able to consistently beat the market. It is unlikely that any person here will beat them consistently in their spare time.

Yup

Coincidentally, those "people paid huge sums of money" are also fucking useless too - hence why you should invest only in Index funds.

I mean, those people were only beat literally by monkies throwing darts to pick their stocks. No biggie.

Give a monkey enough darts and they’ll beat the market. So says a draft article by Research Affiliateshighlighting the simulated results of 100 monkeys throwing darts at the stock pages in a newspaper. The average monkey outperformed the index by an average of 1.7 percent per year since 1964. That’s a lot of bananas!

https://www.forbes.com/sites/rickferri/2012/12/20/any-monkey-can-beat-the-market/#525761b0630a

 

[Thump553]

I have one main question for the folks here: The leftist media (and unsurprisingly/subsequently all the leftist shills here) are saying "Tariffs are BAD! That means americans pay more! BAD FOR AMERICA!".

So if tariffs are in fact bad for the originating country, why is the response from China to enact retaliatory tariffs? I mean, if tariffs are bad, why would they impose them on their own people? If were shooting ourselves in the foot, why are they shooting themselves in the foot?

The answer is that anyone who says "Tariffs are bad" by default are simply too fucking dumb to think outside of OMG WE MIGHT PAY MORE ON A PRODUCT! Christ, take a fucking economics 101 class and understand that global trade isn't limited to 1 country. This is a global economy, this isn't 3D Chess this is 3543246724D Chess. And if you think you will know the exact effects of every economical move then that is just laughable. Majority of folks in here don't even hold a business degree let alone one in economics.

It's pretty safe to say that not only do you not have a degree in economics, but that if you ever took a Econ course you slept through the classes and never cracked the book.

It's not leftist economists that say tariffs are bad, but damn near all economists-and economists by their nature are like trying to herd cats. Tariffs distort markets, result in production distortions, shrink the economy (or at least slow it's growth down. China's reactions to Trump's tariffs are visible evidence of this. Except for Trump, they became pretty much passe in the 18th century.

 

[fskimospy]

Yup

Coincidentally, those "people paid huge sums of money" are also fucking useless too - hence why you should invest only in Index funds.

I mean, those people were only beat literally by monkies throwing darts to pick their stocks. No biggie.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/rickferri/2012/12/20/any-monkey-can-beat-the-market/#525761b0630a

YOU should only invest in index funds, yes. As for those people paid huge sums of money, absolutely not.

You’re talking about fund managers, who are indeed useless, and I am talking about the banks’ trading desks, which are most certainly not. Just go look at how much money the big banks make trading their own book every year.

A friend of mine owns a company that creates ultra low latency interconnects so that banks can shave a tenth of a second off their transaction times. They aren’t spending this money because they could do just as well throwing darts.

 

[fskimospy]

I have one main question for the folks here: The leftist media (and unsurprisingly/subsequently all the leftist shills here) are saying "Tariffs are BAD! That means americans pay more! BAD FOR AMERICA!".

Yes, tariffs are bad for America. We are taxing ourselves to ensure that we source products less efficiently.

So if tariffs are in fact bad for the originating country, why is the response from China to enact retaliatory tariffs? I mean, if tariffs are bad, why would they impose them on their own people? If were shooting ourselves in the foot, why are they shooting themselves in the foot?

Tariffs are bad for BOTH countries. The hope is that the tariffs are worse for the country subject to them than they are for the country enacting them.

Makes more sense now?

The answer is that anyone who says "Tariffs are bad" by default are simply too fucking dumb to think outside of OMG WE MIGHT PAY MORE ON A PRODUCT! Christ, take a fucking economics 101 class and understand that global trade isn't limited to 1 country. This is a global economy, this isn't 3D Chess this is 3543246724D Chess. And if you think you will know the exact effects of every economical move then that is just laughable. Majority of folks in here don't even hold a business degree let alone one in economics.

I still remember you predicting that China would capitulate because America had them over a barrel. That turned out to be pretty hugely wrong and I remember telling you why at the time.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Yes, tariffs are bad for America. We are taxing ourselves to ensure that we source products less efficiently.



Tariffs are bad for BOTH countries. The hope is that the tariffs are worse for the country subject to them than they are for the country enacting them.

Makes more sense now?



I still remember you predicting that China would capitulate because America had them over a barrel. That turned out to be pretty hugely wrong and I remember telling you why at the time.

China will capitulate. The USA economy is still damn well off and the Chinese economy is showing stress signs and cracks in the fault.

The only thing that is potentially showing signs of distress in our economy is based on global issues - not domestic issues. People are still spending money like whores and drunken sailors.

But again - you're proving my point: If tariffs are bad, WHY is China responding to tariffs with their own tariffs? Why? Please explain in full detail. They want to hurt their own economy?

We are taxing ourselves to ensure we source products less efficiently

Also based on your quote above, isn't that essentially every tax? In that regard, EVERY tax would go against economic gains.

 

[Jhhnn]

I have one main question for the folks here: The leftist media (and unsurprisingly/subsequently all the leftist shills here) are saying "Tariffs are BAD! That means americans pay more! BAD FOR AMERICA!".

So if tariffs are in fact bad for the originating country, why is the response from China to enact retaliatory tariffs? I mean, if tariffs are bad, why would they impose them on their own people? If were shooting ourselves in the foot, why are they shooting themselves in the foot?

The answer is that anyone who says "Tariffs are bad" by default are simply too fucking dumb to think outside of OMG WE MIGHT PAY MORE ON A PRODUCT! Christ, take a fucking economics 101 class and understand that global trade isn't limited to 1 country. This is a global economy, this isn't 3D Chess this is 3543246724D Chess. And if you think you will know the exact effects of every economical move then that is just laughable. Majority of folks in here don't even hold a business degree let alone one in economics.

If you believe Trump, Navarro & the rest of the crew have any idea of what they're doing then you're delusional. It's clear that the Chinese have no reason to believe that Trump is negotiating in good faith and have no intention of being bullied. Business is inhibited from investment anywhere because of the total chaos that Trump leaves in the wake of his monstrous ego. The Chinese will just hold out & deal with his successor while we pay more. They raised tariffs this last time hoping Trump was stupid enough to do the same, right when our economy is showing a lack of stability. And sure enough, he did. Trump can wear an economic downturn into the election. And, uhh, if you think midwest farmers will be standing behind Trump if they get screwed three years in a row, your tribal instincts are probably stronger than theirs.

 

[fskimospy]

China will capitulate. The USA economy is still damn well off and the Chinese economy is showing stress signs and cracks in the fault.

The only thing that is potentially showing signs of distress in our economy is based on global issues - not domestic issues. People are still spending money like whores and drunken sailors.

You still don’t understand. No, they won’t. If you think they will capitulate what’s the time frame for that? Just looking for a basic time frame at which point you will admit to being wrong.

China will not offer any substantial concessions to the US, period. The best the US will get is some sort of minor thing that China doesn’t care about in order to let the US save face. Like I said before even if China wanted to capitulate they can’t because Trump can’t make credible commitments.

But again - you're proving my point: If tariffs are bad, WHY is China responding to tariffs with their own tariffs? Why? Please explain in full detail. They want to hurt their own economy?

I already explained it in the post you quoted? Yes, tariffs hurt their own economy. They also hurt the US economy. The goal is to inflict economic pain on the US so we drop our tariffs. If you look at what China enacted tariffs on they looked for industries where they could find alternative suppliers so they wouldn’t hurt them as much and they looked for politically powerful/salient industries in the US.

Make sense now?

Also based on your quote above, isn't that essentially every tax? In that regard, EVERY tax would go against economic gains.

No, as most taxes are not designed to incentivize inefficiency, unlike tariffs.

 

[Jhhnn]

To a certain extent yes, but as you draw closer to retirement you should have the wherewithall to understand that you need to reduce your risk. Less risk = less return. Thus the older you get, the more you move your investments from stocks to bonds. In addition, if you're ACTUALLY RETIRED you should have a portion of your retirement account that is ACTUAL CASH. T

hus if a major market crash occurs, you can rely on the assets that dropped in value the least.

If you didn't do things like that then it's well.. your own fault for not informing yourself of your investments.

Remember when MBS were safe as houses? They really were, for a very long time. And suddenly they weren't, at all.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Remember when MBS were safe as houses? They really were, for a very long time. And suddenly they weren't, at all.

Not once have I ever heard that - especially in regards to when you get older. I've certainly hold "As you get older move more of your allocation of stocks into bonds", never have I heard "As you get older move more of your stocks into mortgage backed securities". Never. It never existed. You're full of shit. I'll give you some benefit of the doubt if you want, when 2006 was going down I just graduated so I wasn't anywhere near as invested then as I am now.

But either way- Every single stockbroker will (unless they are fiduciary) tell you that what they are selling you is great and secure. That doesn't mean it is. By the way, I have a bridge to sell you along with some snake oil. Want to buy some?

The answer for security is DIVERSIFICATION. Putting all your eggs in one basket (e.g. The mortgage industry) is NOT diversification.

use your brain moran.

 

[Jhhnn]

Not once have I ever heard that - especially in regards to when you get older. I've certainly hold "As you get older move more of your allocation of stocks into bonds", never have I heard "As you get older move more of your stocks into mortgage backed securities". Never. It never existed. You're full of shit. I'll give you some benefit of the doubt if you want, when 2006 was going down I just graduated so I wasn't anywhere near as invested then as I am now.

But either way- Every single stockbroker will (unless they are fiduciary) tell you that what they are selling you is great and secure. That doesn't mean it is. By the way, I have a bridge to sell you along with some snake oil. Want to buy some?

The answer for security is DIVERSIFICATION. Putting all your eggs in one basket (e.g. The mortgage industry) is NOT diversification.

use your brain moran.

Please. MBS were a mainstay of a lot of conservative mutual funds based on bonds. And that's where conservative investors had a lot of their money when it all went to Hell. The big banks held the same stuff, but they got bailed out by the govt & the FRB. The funds just took the hit.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Please. MBS were a mainstay of a lot of conservative mutual funds based on bonds. And that's where conservative investors had a lot of their money when it all went to Hell. The big banks held the same stuff, but they got bailed out by the govt & the FRB. The funds just took the hit.

I'm sorry you're too inepty stupid to understand what "diversification" means.

 

[K1052]

Despite having been wrong at literally every turn the admin is still saying stuff like this. We are hip deep in a retaliatory cycle RIGHT NOW.

White House economic adviser Larry Kudlow said on Sunday that he doesn’t believe China will retaliate against additional tariffs on Chinese imports that President Donald Trump announced Friday.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/25/kud...mps-latest-tariffs.html?__source=twitter|main

 

[alien42]

Despite having been wrong at literally every turn the admin is still saying stuff like this. We are hip deep in a retaliatory cycle RIGHT NOW.



https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/25/kudlow-does-not-expect-china-to-retaliate-against-trumps-latest-tariffs.html?__source=twitter|main

i just saw Kudlow on CNN sputter and stammer trying to explain how reality isn't reality and quotes are taken out of context.

 

[jmagg]

26741 recession ahead

 

[SlowSpyder]

Is the sky still falling?

Strong jobs report, too.

https://www.foxbusiness.com/economy/august-adp-job-growth

Just think, we're in the middle of a trade war with China, slapping them around getting them into shape, and our economy is still the envy of the world. Trump is doing great in getting those trade deals churned out.