Dow Hits 32-Month High - Dave have you been investing again?

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
I don't know the answer, Alchemize, although I'm sure it's a fairly large percentage. Perhaps you'll enlighten me, or play games- whatever.

It's no secret that captive pension plans are in trouble, corporate employers having scrimped on contributions during the boom years of the 90's. The rising market is good news in the respect that it helps them hide their fundamental problems, continue the usual outrageous executive enrichment.

I won't enlighten you, or Dave, go enlighten yourself with google. Try www.fool.com (yes, a real website ), a great source for nice basic investing information. Since you'd rather turn this into a political discussion of ~!'s whining about the totally false "rich stockmarket owners". If you are too stupid and unwilling to educate yourselves about investing, that's your loss.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
I don't know the answer, Alchemize, although I'm sure it's a fairly large percentage. Perhaps you'll enlighten me, or play games- whatever.

It's no secret that captive pension plans are in trouble, corporate employers having scrimped on contributions during the boom years of the 90's. The rising market is good news in the respect that it helps them hide their fundamental problems, continue the usual outrageous executive enrichment.

I won't enlighten you, or Dave, go enlighten yourself with google. Try www.fool.com (yes, a real website ), a great source for nice basic investing information. Since you'd rather turn this into a political discussion of ~!'s whining about the totally false "rich stockmarket owners". If you are too stupid and unwilling to educate yourselves about investing, that's your loss.

Still sticking that Grandma and Grandpa are Power Stock Brokers heh?

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
I don't know the answer, Alchemize, although I'm sure it's a fairly large percentage. Perhaps you'll enlighten me, or play games- whatever.

It's no secret that captive pension plans are in trouble, corporate employers having scrimped on contributions during the boom years of the 90's. The rising market is good news in the respect that it helps them hide their fundamental problems, continue the usual outrageous executive enrichment.

I won't enlighten you, or Dave, go enlighten yourself with google. Try www.fool.com (yes, a real website ), a great source for nice basic investing information. Since you'd rather turn this into a political discussion of ~!'s whining about the totally false "rich stockmarket owners". If you are too stupid and unwilling to educate yourselves about investing, that's your loss.

Still sticking that Grandma and Grandpa are Power Stock Brokers heh?

Well, let's see. My paternal grandmother, who is 80 years old, has approx $1million in her various retirement accounts. My other grandmother/grandfather, probably have 2x that (never seen the statements for them - while I'm power of attorney for my paternal grandmother).

So yes, my grandmother, the ultra-rich retired PROGRAMMER (yep, she retired as a cobol programmer), and mother other grandparents, the ultra-rich retired college professor and school teacher have $3million in the market (wisely mostly represented by more risk-averse bond funds).

Of course, if you had any concept of the basics of investing, which you obviously don't, you'd recognize that this is the very typical representation of the "rich power stock broker".

Of course, you've already made your mind up on these things. Nobody but rich people have money in the market. And it is all just a big scam to you, because you are too ignorant and stubborn to learn. As evidenced by how you blew through your money the one time you tried your hand. Sticking your head into something you know nothing about (but THINK you do), failing miserably, then blaming everyone else. Sounds like a trend for you...

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
I don't know the answer, Alchemize, although I'm sure it's a fairly large percentage. Perhaps you'll enlighten me, or play games- whatever.

It's no secret that captive pension plans are in trouble, corporate employers having scrimped on contributions during the boom years of the 90's. The rising market is good news in the respect that it helps them hide their fundamental problems, continue the usual outrageous executive enrichment.

I won't enlighten you, or Dave, go enlighten yourself with google. Try www.fool.com (yes, a real website ), a great source for nice basic investing information. Since you'd rather turn this into a political discussion of ~!'s whining about the totally false "rich stockmarket owners". If you are too stupid and unwilling to educate yourselves about investing, that's your loss.

Still sticking that Grandma and Grandpa are Power Stock Brokers heh?

Well, let's see. My paternal grandmother, who is 80 years old, has approx $1million in her various retirement accounts. My other grandmother/grandfather, probably have 2x that (never seen the statements for them - while I'm power of attorney for my paternal grandmother).

So yes, my grandmother, the ultra-rich retired PROGRAMMER (yep, she retired as a cobol programmer), and mother other grandparents, the ultra-rich retired college professor and school teacher have $3million in the market (wisely mostly represented by more risk-averse bond funds).

Of course, if you had any concept of the basics of investing, which you obviously don't, you'd recognize that this is the very typical representation of the "rich power stock broker".

Of course, you've already made your mind up on these things. Nobody but rich people have money in the market. And it is all just a big scam to you, because you are too ignorant and stubborn to learn. As evidenced by how you blew through your money the one time you tried your hand. Sticking your head into something you know nothing about (but THINK you do), failing miserably, then blaming everyone else. Sounds like a trend for you...

So they retired, moved to New York, and play Monopoly all day on the Stock Trading Floor?

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
I don't know the answer, Alchemize, although I'm sure it's a fairly large percentage. Perhaps you'll enlighten me, or play games- whatever.

It's no secret that captive pension plans are in trouble, corporate employers having scrimped on contributions during the boom years of the 90's. The rising market is good news in the respect that it helps them hide their fundamental problems, continue the usual outrageous executive enrichment.

I won't enlighten you, or Dave, go enlighten yourself with google. Try www.fool.com (yes, a real website ), a great source for nice basic investing information. Since you'd rather turn this into a political discussion of ~!'s whining about the totally false "rich stockmarket owners". If you are too stupid and unwilling to educate yourselves about investing, that's your loss.

Still sticking that Grandma and Grandpa are Power Stock Brokers heh?

Well, let's see. My paternal grandmother, who is 80 years old, has approx $1million in her various retirement accounts. My other grandmother/grandfather, probably have 2x that (never seen the statements for them - while I'm power of attorney for my paternal grandmother).

So yes, my grandmother, the ultra-rich retired PROGRAMMER (yep, she retired as a cobol programmer), and mother other grandparents, the ultra-rich retired college professor and school teacher have $3million in the market (wisely mostly represented by more risk-averse bond funds).

Of course, if you had any concept of the basics of investing, which you obviously don't, you'd recognize that this is the very typical representation of the "rich power stock broker".

Of course, you've already made your mind up on these things. Nobody but rich people have money in the market. And it is all just a big scam to you, because you are too ignorant and stubborn to learn. As evidenced by how you blew through your money the one time you tried your hand. Sticking your head into something you know nothing about (but THINK you do), failing miserably, then blaming everyone else. Sounds like a trend for you...

So they retired, moved to New York, and play Monopoly all day on the Stock Trading Floor?

Do you enjoy making yourself look even more stupid with each post? Some kind of subtle self-flagellation? Quit while you are WAAAY behind.

Here, let me remind you of your investing skillz:

The little money I had in the stock Market was not enough to even keep me in the "Monopoly" Game and it cost me money every month I kept the account. Cost so much to stay in the Stock Market I had to get out and it cost me $3,000 to get out of the Stock Market to close out the Broker Account.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
I don't know the answer, Alchemize, although I'm sure it's a fairly large percentage. Perhaps you'll enlighten me, or play games- whatever.

It's no secret that captive pension plans are in trouble, corporate employers having scrimped on contributions during the boom years of the 90's. The rising market is good news in the respect that it helps them hide their fundamental problems, continue the usual outrageous executive enrichment.

I won't enlighten you, or Dave, go enlighten yourself with google. Try www.fool.com (yes, a real website ), a great source for nice basic investing information. Since you'd rather turn this into a political discussion of ~!'s whining about the totally false "rich stockmarket owners". If you are too stupid and unwilling to educate yourselves about investing, that's your loss.

Still sticking that Grandma and Grandpa are Power Stock Brokers heh?

Well, let's see. My paternal grandmother, who is 80 years old, has approx $1million in her various retirement accounts. My other grandmother/grandfather, probably have 2x that (never seen the statements for them - while I'm power of attorney for my paternal grandmother).

So yes, my grandmother, the ultra-rich retired PROGRAMMER (yep, she retired as a cobol programmer), and mother other grandparents, the ultra-rich retired college professor and school teacher have $3million in the market (wisely mostly represented by more risk-averse bond funds).

Of course, if you had any concept of the basics of investing, which you obviously don't, you'd recognize that this is the very typical representation of the "rich power stock broker".

Of course, you've already made your mind up on these things. Nobody but rich people have money in the market. And it is all just a big scam to you, because you are too ignorant and stubborn to learn. As evidenced by how you blew through your money the one time you tried your hand. Sticking your head into something you know nothing about (but THINK you do), failing miserably, then blaming everyone else. Sounds like a trend for you...

So they retired, moved to New York, and play Monopoly all day on the Stock Trading Floor?

Do you enjoy making yourself look even more stupid with each post? Some kind of subtle self-flagellation? Quit while you are WAAAY behind.

Here, let me remind you of your investing skillz:

The little money I had in the stock Market was not enough to even keep me in the "Monopoly" Game and it cost me money every month I kept the account. Cost so much to stay in the Stock Market I had to get out and it cost me $3,000 to get out of the Stock Market to close out the Broker Account.

What does that have to do with your Grandparents working as Power Stock Brokers?

 

[alchemize]

What does that have to do with your Grandparents working as Power Stock Brokers?

Either you have some desire to look stupid, or some desire to always get in the last stupid word, or both. So I'll just let you get in the last word. Feel free to respond with some stupid response to this and this can be declared done.

Somebody had a quote about arguing with morons...I think I've just seen scientific proof.

 

[Corn]

Sticking your head into something you know nothing about (but THINK you do), failing miserably, then blaming everyone else. Sounds like a trend for you...

I would find it hard to believe that anything else said by any other living person could actually be more right than that quote.

 

[Corn]

Either you have some desire to look stupid, or some desire to always get in the last stupid word, or both.

I don't think he has a desire to look stupid per se, it's just that's all he's good at. Everyone has a skill.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Corn

Either you have some desire to look stupid, or some desire to always get in the last stupid word, or both.

I don't think he has a desire to look stupid per se, it's just that's all he's good at. Everyone has a skill.

You mean I'm better than Bush at it???

 

[dirtboy]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Corn

Either you have some desire to look stupid, or some desire to always get in the last stupid word, or both.

I don't think he has a desire to look stupid per se, it's just that's all he's good at. Everyone has a skill.

You mean I'm better than Bush at it???

No, that's just your opinion of him.

Don't worry Dave, you're still #1.

 

[Corn]

You mean I'm better than Bush at it???

Yes Dave, you've brought "looking stupid" to a whole new level.........

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Corn

You mean I'm better than Bush at it???

Yes Dave, you've brought "looking stupid" to a whole new level.........

I'll take "Looking stupid" than actually being stupid any day

 

[Jhhnn]

Not wishing to resurrect the "Kick Dave" fest, I'd just like to remind y'all that I'm not Dave. He seems to agree with me sometimes, though, which is OK by me, but doesn't necessarily invalidate what I have to say, either.

From Alchemize-

Answer me one single question. What percentage of the stock market represents retirement accounts? Then proceed to explain to us how that is all "rich people's money".

Precise answers are fairly obscure, but it seems that pension funds own ~20% of all stock equities. I would also caution you not to put words in my mouth, I never used the terms "rich people's money"- you did. Given that the other 80% of market equity is held predominately by the upper 10%, it seems to reinforce my original statements. Nothing you've offered has contradicted that premise- your millionaire grandparents are obviously members of that class, and the tax largesse they received has gone right back into the market, right? And their equity isn't dependent on the welfare of the average American worker except in very indirect ways- if the companies' stocks they own gain value from outsourcing offshore, they profit at the expense of the average guy. Only when and if demand falls to levels where lower sales overcome higher margins will those companies' fortunes be reversed, and that hasn't come to pass- not yet, anyway.

Then you proceeded to belittle Dave by rattling off a list of investor jargon and proceeded to admit that you just invest in market index funds, yourself, pretty much defeating your own argument about educated investing...

How valuable can such education actually be, anyway, when some of the most touted stocks in history turn out to be empty shells, merely vehicles of wealth acquisition for those on the inside? What ordinary people need are decent paying jobs, benefits and reliable pensions, something American business is providing in less than stellar measure during this so-called recovery... the disconnect I originally referenced. Given the basic nature of Globalization, it's quite possible for the market to do relatively well while the fortunes of the population languish- get used to it.

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
Not wishing to resurrect the "Kick Dave" fest, I'd just like to remind y'all that I'm not Dave. He seems to agree with me sometimes, though, which is OK by me, but doesn't necessarily invalidate what I have to say, either.

From Alchemize-

Answer me one single question. What percentage of the stock market represents retirement accounts? Then proceed to explain to us how that is all "rich people's money".

Precise answers are fairly obscure, but it seems that pension funds own ~20% of all stock equities. I would also caution you not to put words in my mouth, I never used the terms "rich people's money"- you did. Given that the other 80% of market equity is held predominately by the upper 10%, it seems to reinforce my original statements. Nothing you've offered has contradicted that premise- your millionaire grandparents are obviously members of that class, and the tax largesse they received has gone right back into the market, right? And their equity isn't dependent on the welfare of the average American worker except in very indirect ways- if the companies' stocks they own gain value from outsourcing offshore, they profit at the expense of the average guy. Only when and if demand falls to levels where lower sales overcome higher margins will those companies' fortunes be reversed, and that hasn't come to pass- not yet, anyway.

Then you proceeded to belittle Dave by rattling off a list of investor jargon and proceeded to admit that you just invest in market index funds, yourself, pretty much defeating your own argument about educated investing...

How valuable can such education actually be, anyway, when some of the most touted stocks in history turn out to be empty shells, merely vehicles of wealth acquisition for those on the inside? What ordinary people need are decent paying jobs, benefits and reliable pensions, something American business is providing in less than stellar measure during this so-called recovery... the disconnect I originally referenced. Given the basic nature of Globalization, it's quite possible for the market to do relatively well while the fortunes of the population languish- get used to it.

Not even close. ~75% of the market is retirement funds. Good old regular 401(k)'s, IRA's, and pension funds. 10.9 Trillion in 2001 Since 401k's and IRA's are capped at a nominal level that just about anyone can afford, if they live frugally, that totally invalidates your "elite 10%" theory.

Investor Jargon? Hah. That's like having someone talk about CPU's, RAM, Motherboards, and Hard Drives and calling it "jargon". And my investing in index funds proves that a minimum level of education is required to be successful in the market. I'm probably more educated about finances than 90% of the population. And yet, simple truths of dollar-cost-averaging and mutual funds have served me much better than whenever I tried to outguess the market. Again, there is a reason why index funds outperform 90% of mutual funds.

But you keep on ranting your ~! political theories. You are so blinded by your rhetoric you can't even see simple financial facts when they stare you in the face. Cause it is all a big scam to "keep you down".

I appreciate your attempt to show you aren't quite as ignorant as Dave, but unfortunately, you're just a hair above. Maybe you are willing to learn.

 

[etech]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Corn

You mean I'm better than Bush at it???

Yes Dave, you've brought "looking stupid" to a whole new level.........

I'll take "Looking stupid" than actually being stupid any day

Dave, from here it looks as if you are only one away from a hat trick.

 

[NesuD]

Originally posted by: alchemize

What does that have to do with your Grandparents working as Power Stock Brokers?

Either you have some desire to look stupid, or some desire to always get in the last stupid word, or both. So I'll just let you get in the last word. Feel free to respond with some stupid response to this and this can be declared done.

Somebody had a quote about arguing with morons...I think I've just seen scientific proof.

I think the quote you are thinking of goes something like this

"Never argue with and idiot/moron, He will just bring you down to his level and beat you with experience"

One of my all time favorites. Sad to see someone I used to respect becoming a living case study proving it.

 

[Jhhnn]

I think we're talking about two different things, Alchemize. I referenced pension funds, you referenced total retirement funds, there being a difference. The charts from your link reflect that difference, and reinforce the ~20 share I referenced.

75% is an exaggeration, anyway- the total capitalization of the NYSE being ~$16.5T, and the NASDAQ being ~$3.5T, near as I can tell...

http://www.tse.or.jp/english/news/2002/200206/020604_a.html

As to the actual ownership of stocks, this reinforces what I've already said-

http://www.epinet.org/press_releases/swa2000pr.pdf

In brief, the lower 50% of households own no stock, the upper 1% holds ~47%, with the rest distributed among the intervening 49%. Obviously, most of that is towards the top end...

Which, related back to my original statement, pretty much satisfies the definition of just who compromises the stock trading segment of the population... the very people who received the greatest benefits from the Bush tax plan...

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
I think we're talking about two different things, Alchemize. I referenced pension funds, you referenced total retirement funds, there being a difference. The charts from your link reflect that difference, and reinforce the ~20 share I referenced.

75% is an exaggeration, anyway- the total capitalization of the NYSE being ~$16.5T, and the NASDAQ being ~$3.5T, near as I can tell...

http://www.tse.or.jp/english/news/2002/200206/020604_a.html

As to the actual ownership of stocks, this reinforces what I've already said-

http://www.epinet.org/press_releases/swa2000pr.pdf

In brief, the lower 50% of households own no stock, the upper 1% holds ~47%, with the rest distributed among the intervening 49%. Obviously, most of that is towards the top end...

Which, related back to my original statement, pretty much satisfies the definition of just who compromises the stock trading segment of the population... the very people who received the greatest benefits from the Bush tax plan...

75% is not an exaggeration. Let's remain on 2001 terms. wilshire 5000 represents a market cap of 13.4 trillion. Your NYSE numbers 1) represent non-US firms 2) are going to be higher than my 2001 numbers.

10.9 trillion (from the ICI.org link) / 13.4 trillion = 81%. But let's for the sake of argument use your numbers. So 50% of the market represents retirement funds. Some very large plurality, or the majority, of the market is retirement funds. Now, since retirement funds are capped, how is it that the top 1% are breaking those rules?????? How are they getting all that money into retirement funds? Somebody is lying here...

Your epinet.org source is quite far from being a non-biased source.

EPI was established in 1986 to broaden the discussion about economic policy to include the interests of low- and middle-income workers.

My guess is they've decided to use "ownership of stocks" as their number, because it skews it in their favor. I don't own any stock. I only own mutual funds, as do most investors in retirement funds. So they've decided to use a little wordplay and blammo, only the rich are investors....

Now would you please stop inserting politics in this discussion? Oh that's right, you can't stop because you have some agenda to try and redefine how you can justify some redistribution of the US's wealth. Where my hardworking grandparents are now "rich millionaires" that need to be taxed heavily.

 

[Jhhnn]

Alchemize-

Quote
EPI was established in 1986 to broaden the discussion about economic policy to include the interests of low- and middle-income workers.
My guess is they've decided to use "ownership of stocks" as their number, because it skews it in their favor."

Consult page 4 of the linked pdf- they specifically reference stocks in any form, including mutuals...

Stop inserting politics? It's all political, from the opening post.