DoT sued over backup camera recommendation

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JTsyo

Lifer
Nov 18, 2007
11,723
880
126
I have both the sensors and the camera on my new truck. They came with it as part of another feature set I wanted.

I can honestly say that while I don't rely strictly on the camera, the addition of both safety mechanisms has been a huge plus and I will not buy another new vehicle without out.

When I put the car into reverse, I take a quick look at the camera image. After that I'll looking out the back window and listening for any beeps. My Fusion has the rear sensors and cross traffic sensors, great for parking lots.
 

OCGuy

Lifer
Jul 12, 2000
27,227
36
91
I didn't realize how damn dusty the screen was until the sun hit on it...had to take a long lunch to get it detailed:


uQE5mo1.jpg
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,024
79
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Only thing I will say to this is that it's not always cut and dry. For instance, years ago, my wife and I were leaving the house to go somewhere. Just as I'm about to put the car in reverse, I noticed a flash of something in my side mirror. I got out of the car and looked behind it to find my 6 year old "hiding" behind the car. He was short enough (there are reasons), that I would have not seen him if I was backing up.

So, it's not always being an idiot that causes these kinds of accidents, sometimes things happen. I got lucky.

That said, I think the lawsuit is stupid. They are available now, customers have the option of buying them and there is no evidence that they would have caused any less amount of deaths.

Nope, you're still an idiot. Your son, at 6 years old, should damn well know better than to "hide" behind a car someone just got into. The "oh sometimes accidents happen so they are okay" is complete nonsense.
 

drebo

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2006
7,035
1
81
Paying attention > gadgets.

People who need a rear view camera to back their car up shouldn't be allowed to drive.

More stringent driving tests would have saved his kid's life, too. That'd be my preference.
 

Pray To Jesus

Diamond Member
Mar 14, 2011
3,642
0
0
Nope, you're still an idiot. Your son, at 6 years old, should damn well know better than to "hide" behind a car someone just got into. The "oh sometimes accidents happen so they are okay" is complete nonsense.

Being 6 years old now, you should damn well know better than to failtroll. Clearly nobody should ever take you seriously.
 

Exterous

Super Moderator
Jun 20, 2006
20,372
3,451
126
They are available now, customers have the option of buying them and there is no evidence that they would have caused any less amount of deaths.

Agreed - if these parents who think they are so important really want to they can buy their own. Why does it have to go down the 'force everyone to' path? (Well - I know the answer to that but I don't agree with it)

My previous car, a Toyota Matrix XR, did not have them and I managed to bang my front air dam and rear bumper several times, same with previous cars. It's likely the savings in car damage alone will more than pay for the inclusion of this tech. But, I think the sensors are more useful than the camera.

This I don't understand unless you live in a huge city. I've owned several types of cars and had to drive a couple of horrid work vehicles with massive blind spots every day for years and have never banged my bumper.

Either way - if you want it great. Pay more for it on your own. Don't sue the government to force people who don't want\don't want to pay for it to get one
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
23,437
10,331
136
The tire sensor on my truck came on when one of the tires was down to 22psi, it didn't look noticeably different than the others at a glance, so I'm glad for it. Not to mention if you hit a nail or something while you're driving and get a slow leak.

I like this feature also.

Pretty much has helped me confirm that I have a slow leak in my rear right tire. Can't see a nail so i'm taking it in for service when i can find the time.
 

SpunkyJones

Diamond Member
Apr 1, 2004
5,090
1
81
Am I the only one who thinks there will be more accidents because of idiots staring at the screen while backing up, and not looking left/right?
 

Jimzz

Diamond Member
Oct 23, 2012
4,399
190
106
I prefer the rear sensors that beep over the cameras.

The cameras would do more than just stop kids being run over. How much money would be saved from less damage been taken?


The sensors give people a false sense of safety as well. Saw a guy just back up into a round yellow post as his sensor did not go off. Guess what the sensor does not work on thin items like that, you are still supposed to look behind you.


Put sensors and cameras in more cars and I bet people still run over kids and objects. Maybe even more in some cases.
I have 4wd I can drive 60 on this icy road most are only doing 30 on...
Oh timmy/sally can handle this high performance car as it hs abs/traction control/etc...
I don't need to look back I have sensors/camera...
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,328
126
Am I the only one that just doesn't hit shit when I back up? I drive a big ass long bed pickup truck and I don't have any issues not hitting shit with any part of my vehicle.
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,024
79
86
Am I the only one that just doesn't hit shit when I back up? I drive a big ass long bed pickup truck and I don't have any issues not hitting shit with any part of my vehicle.

I have never backed into anything in any car I've ever driven. The only wrecks I've been in where the other drivers fault (of the 2, one I wasn't even in my car).

I must also be the only person who checks their tire pressure regularly.
 

piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
17,168
60
91
This could have a direct connection to the sale of SUV's, Trucks, and how cars are often designed with a higher and smaller rear view window. Often cars are higher in the back or the trunk than the hood. So this is also a design issue. The design of the automobile could be blamed, at least partially for backup injuries.
 

Doppel

Lifer
Feb 5, 2011
13,306
3
0
I have one vehicle with a camera. I generally do not use it but it us some mild use at times. Seems like a huge total cost for the number of lives saved though.
 

Tormac

Senior member
Feb 3, 2011
254
49
91
This is one of the stupidest things that I have heard of. I can understand needing a back up camera on one of the huge Pick ups or SUV's, but never once have wanted, or needed one for my impreza or elise.

I know that not everyone likes small cars, but as someone who pays extra to have a small light weight car without stupid crap on it these laws frustrate me to no end.

Please people, quit trying to ruin cars with this stupid junk. Pay attention to what you are doing. Check you tire pressure, and look where you are going. My grandfather did. My dad did. Why can't we?
 
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robphelan

Diamond Member
Aug 28, 2003
4,085
17
81
This is one of the stupidest things that I have heard of. I can understand needing a back up camera on one of the huge Pick ups or SUV's, but never once have wanted, or needed one for my impreza or elise.

I know that not everyone likes small cars, but as someone who pays extra to have a small light weight car without stupid crap on it these laws frustrate me to no end.

Please people, quit trying to ruin cars with this stupid junk. Pay attention to what you are doing. Check you tire pressure, and look where you are going. My grandfather did. My dad did. Why can't we?

As long as we're talking about removing safety devices, why don't you tear out your seatbelts, remove your airbags, stability control and power steering, and go back to drum brakes instead of fancy safe disc brakes... you'll save plenty of space and weight without those silly safety features.

In your dad's and grandfather's time, there were plenty of people backing up over children (as well as a million other things) - it sounds like you're stating this is only a recent occurrence that can be overcome if we just pay attention.

I absolutely love, and depend, on my rear camera when backing out. I have a great view from my dash and can see cars/obstacles from the left and right side simultaneously without having to ignore one for the other.
 

robphelan

Diamond Member
Aug 28, 2003
4,085
17
81
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/09/25/us-usa-autos-camera-idUSBRE98O03Y20130925

In the grand scheme of things is 95 lives really worth this additional regulation at a cost of $28,420,000 per life saved? Seems like we could find a much better $:life saved ratio somewhere else - like feeding starving children

Ooooohhhhhh - now I get it. These parents backed over their kids so now they need the government to step in and make everyone else in the country who buys a car pay more because they fucked up

I'll tell you what

You have your child run over and killed then get back to me about the worthiness of backup cameras. Tell me how much you'd pay to have your child back.

You must not have kids, or are a sociopath, if you can't see the profundity of saving even 1 life.

That 1 life is somebody's child, somebody's mother/father/sister/brother. It is not as simple as a number.
 

Puddle Jumper

Platinum Member
Nov 4, 2009
2,835
1
0
I'll tell you what

You have your child run over and killed then get back to me about the worthiness of backup cameras. Tell me how much you'd pay to have your child back.

You must not have kids, or are a sociopath, if you can't see the profundity of saving even 1 life.

That 1 life is somebody's child, somebody's mother/father/sister/brother. It is not as simple as a number.

Everything has killed at least one person at one point or another, multiple people are killed by toilets and bathtubs every year but you don't see a campaign to do anything about that.
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,024
79
86
I'll tell you what

You have your child run over and killed then get back to me about the worthiness of backup cameras. Tell me how much you'd pay to have your child back.

You must not have kids, or are a sociopath, if you can't see the profundity of saving even 1 life.

That 1 life is somebody's child, somebody's mother/father/sister/brother. It is not as simple as a number.

And what happens when that child was backed over by a car with a backup camera? Do we outlaw cars?

This legislation is nothing but feel good garbage to lull the idiot public into thinking they can continue to not pay attention to what they are doing.

Having this technology will only make the average driver more relaxed and pay attention less; because, of course, big brother technology is doing the looking out for us, so we don't have to.
 

88keys

Golden Member
Aug 24, 2012
1,854
12
81
Try to replace a sensor
$15 for the valve stem
$25 for the sensor

$75 for the package at the dealer.

Chrysler; the stem degrades and is not considered under warranty.
If you drive more than 200m on a flat, there is a good chance you will damage the stem and/or sensor. Limping to the gas station will damage the sensor because it is pinned against the wheel by the valve stem


$75 is pretty cheap when compared to most car repair/maintenance prices.

And having senors is pretty nice to detect a slow leak from a tiny puncture. It would be better to detect something like this early and get it repaired or at least use your donut before you drive a significant distance.
Safety features + a little common sense goes a long way.
 
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Exterous

Super Moderator
Jun 20, 2006
20,372
3,451
126
I'll tell you what

You have your child run over and killed then get back to me about the worthiness of backup cameras. Tell me how much you'd pay to have your child back.

You must not have kids, or are a sociopath, if you can't see the profundity of saving even 1 life.

That 1 life is somebody's child, somebody's mother/father/sister/brother. It is not as simple as a number.

Yes because thinking that there are more efficient ways to save children's lives than $28 million a piece = not having kids\sociopath. It this was really about saving children's lives then the money would be allocated to things like feeding the 1.5 million kids that die of starvation each year. But its not - its about people fucking up and demanding that other people pay (literally) for those mistakes

What kind of sociopath or person without kids demands $28 million be spent to save a life when that same dollar amount could be spent saving hundreds if not thousands of more lives with a more efficient application?

Just out of curiosity, do you have kids and does your house have stairs or do they go to a house with stairs?
 
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Tormac

Senior member
Feb 3, 2011
254
49
91
As long as we're talking about removing safety devices, why don't you tear out your seatbelts, remove your airbags, stability control and power steering, and go back to drum brakes instead of fancy safe disc brakes... you'll save plenty of space and weight without those silly safety features.

In your dad's and grandfather's time, there were plenty of people backing up over children (as well as a million other things) - it sounds like you're stating this is only a recent occurrence that can be overcome if we just pay attention.

I absolutely love, and depend, on my rear camera when backing out. I have a great view from my dash and can see cars/obstacles from the left and right side simultaneously without having to ignore one for the other.

If you love and depend on your camera, I have no qualms about it. I am not arguing that the drivers of the current herd of gigantic trucks and SUV's not be allowed to purchase back up cameras. If I drove a large pick up that is difficult to see behind, I would consider purchasing one.

However I drive a tiny little roadster that is lower that a kid on a bicycle. A back up camera is in no way useful for this car and does not enhance the safety of it at all.

Your analogy of seat belts or drum brakes is a poor one. Seat belts do enhance the safety of every vehicle on the road, and seem to be a reasonable mandate. Disk brakes do offer obvious advantages over drum brakes. I can not help but point out that disk brakes are not mandatory, but the market does support them because of their benefits. Mandatory back up cameras on the other hand do not offer any increase in safety in a vehicle of my car's size. Instead they will add cost and complexity to cars for no real return. To suggest otherwise baffles me, and causes me to assume that people today are incapable of performing the most trivial of tasks such as looking behind them.

When you say you depend on your back up camera, I am happy that you have it. I know many of the huge SUV's and pickups that drive today need this equipment. Never have I said that you should not be allowed to purchase it. I do think that it is unreasonable to force small car buyers to have to pay for these systems when they offer little to no benefit.

Would you support a law that would force every vehicle to have a similar stopping distance and slalom speed of my Elise? This would undoubtedly save lives on the highway if vehicles could all stop and maneuver with the finesse of a lightweight mid engine sports car. Yes there would be costs involved, but why not think of the children? If just one child's life was saved because their parents were forced to install high quality Brembro brakes and race quality tires on their family sedan I'm sure that we would all sleep better at night. I suppose that there would be some inconvenience if everyone was forced to drive in small light weight mid engine cars. But Lotus does make a 2+2 Evora, and of course there is always the 911. If just one child's life was saved because their family avoided an fatal roll over while trying to maneuver would it not be worth it? Do you think it is reasonable to mandate that everyone drive a Lotus or Porsche because of their enhanced driving capabilities? As a compromise I think that large families might be able to purchase a Maserati sedan instead of a little Elise. An added benefit is that it is much easier to see out the back of these little cars, to prevent accidentally smunching a child on a bicycle. I will not ask you to imagine if you were involved in a crash and your child died because you do not drive with ceramic brakes and r compound Yokohoma 048's or similar quality tires on your car, but if you do not at least have a Winwood big bake kit and Michelin pilots on your car, I expect you to go out and buy them TODAY!

I wish you had the same consideration and did not favor forcing others to purchase useless equipment that they do not want in a poorly conceived "one size fits all" law.

I have not ripped out the seat belts, airbags, or disk brakes from my car. I did peal off the crazy stickers on my sun visors warning me that my children should be put in the back seat of my car for safety reasons. Considering that my car does not have back seats, I do not this that this is unreasonable. I will not force any child to sit in the engine compartment of my car, which was what these stickers seem to imply that I need to do.

I do think that mandating that tiny subcompact cars have to be fitted with back up cameras is, like the stickers I mentioned, stupid. It annoys me when I hear that my government is forcing me to do stupid things. It does not surprise me that this is the case, but it does annoy me.
 
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OGOC

Senior member
Jun 14, 2013
312
0
76
Ooooohhhhhh - now I get it. These parents backed over their kids so now they need the government to step in and make everyone else in the country who buys a car pay more because they fucked up
We also need drug laws because otherwise every person in the country will want to do heroin. Every person in this thread would be doing heroin right now if it wasn't against the law.
I'll tell you what

You have your child run over and killed then get back to me about the worthiness of backup cameras. Tell me how much you'd pay to have your child back.

You must not have kids, or are a sociopath, if you can't see the profundity of saving even 1 life.

That 1 life is somebody's child, somebody's mother/father/sister/brother. It is not as simple as a number.
Hurricanes kill more than 1 person every year. We should put the entire GDP of the country towards stopping hurricanes.