Doom3 -- Capped at 60 FPS?

[Mullzy]

Hey there. I've found for myself (using FRAPS) that Doom3 is capping its framerate at 60. I've also found various sites/forums indicating this was the Master Plan all along. What I can't seem to find is *why*.

There are a couple parts early in the game where I find myself looking at and interacting with someone in a small room. Fraps says I'm at 60fps (one guy on the screen and a blank wall behind him) yet I can see that the animation is not completely fluid. It simply would look better at 70-100 FPS.

I don't want to start a "The human brain/eye can only distinguish 30fps/60fps/120fps" thread. I have played MANY games and I can tell the difference between 60 FPS and 90 FPS - so why did iD make an engine that caps the rate?

Can anyone direct me to Carmack's rationalization of this?

 

[igloo15]

you may think you can but you can't its all in your mind if no one had told you that it was at 60 but at 90 you probably would not of even picked up on it. Its a proven fact you can't see the difference.

 

[Nothinman]

Any jumpyness is probbaly just animation bugs they never fixed, the only way the FPS would be causing it to seem jumpy is if the rate keeps going up and down.

 

[Davegod]

OK go find the proof for that "fact" - respected medical journal please, no crappy game site.

 

[Regs]

Please enable vsync. Have a nice day.

 

[Spitwad]

Originally posted by: Davegod
OK go find the proof for that "fact" - respected medical journal please, no crappy game site.

Hmm let me see. TV runs at around 30 frames per second, yet I don't see any lag or stuttering at all there. It just seems to me that its common sense people knew that...

 

[slurm]

I'm having the same problem, doom 3 is capped at 60 fps for me. I don't know why, I've turned on vsync in the game and in nvidia's config in windows to 85hz (even turned on refresh rate override to 85hz), but whenever I start playing the game, it's 60fps no matter what. Is there some kind of "fps_max" command like in steam? This is seriouslly pissing me off.

 

[BlueWeasel]

I think Q3 had the com_maxfps XX command, but I don't have D3 yet to test it on.

 

[Andvari]

There can be animation jumpiness at any framerate. Say, 500fps. That just means 500 frames are being rendered every second. That doesn't mean each frame will be different. If the first 250 frames are identical, then the second 250 frames are identical, you would be under the impression that it was running at 2fps.

I know this is a horribly impractical example that would probably never ever take place, but I dunno. You get what I'm saying hopefully.

 

[JeffCY]

People who say they can't tell the difference between 60fps and 100fps are probably not hardcore FPS gamers. Frames per second makes a huge difference when you're turning. Say you turn 180 degrees in one second. The extra 40 frames during that turn makes it a lot smoother. I never understood why people made comparisons to TV... it's a different situation.

Spitwad, if you have a 6800 or something... let's trade. My 9800 pro does over 30fps in Doom 3, which would be good enough for you.

 

[Noid]

Many he's talking multiplayer ...?
If so, it's the server side capping. (like U2 XMP does)
You could probably turn it off, but I dont know the command.
But, if you do , you'll experience 'lag' (cuz the server is trying to sync)

 

[Booty]

I *wish* I could get 60 fps in D3, heh... I would have thought Vsync was the issue as well, but I guess you've checked that? Otherwise, yeah, I remember max_fps commands in previous games, but don't know about D3 having one, one way or the other.

I feel for ya... since framerates vary depending on how much is going on in the game, I'm usually not content unless I'm hitting 90+ fps on the timedemos. Anyone who thinks getting 60 (or some even say 30) on a timedemo means the game is going to run smoothly really must not be that serious of a FPS gamer... or must just prefer eye candy.

 

[dfi]

Shouldn't you be turning vsync OFF?!

dfi

 

[mitchafi]

When I turn vsync off I get a nice FPS boost however the vertical tearing is so bad that the game is almost unplayable. I assume there is no way to fix this? Right now I have vsync set to always on in the ATI control panel and it is set to off in-game.

 

[Allio]

Turning off Vsync is NEVER the answer unless you have a monitor which can't do over 60hz, or you have a video card that's locking you to a certain percentage of your refresh rate because it can't quite manage to do the whole thing. In general, the tearing looks far worse than any increase in FPS.

 

[mitchafi]

I have my monitor's refresh rate set at 85 hz (the highest it goes). Vertical tearing happens when the framerate exceeds the refresh rate...er...is that right? If so, would forcing a refresh rate of 85 hz in-game have any effect?

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: Mullzy
Can anyone direct me to Carmack's rationalization of this?

In Quake3 if you had higher FPS, you could jump farther. Carmack wanted to eliminate this.

I think it's stupid and he could have done this in another way. If someone is running their monitor at 100hz, they would want their FPS to top out at 100 IMO.

 

[Vadatajs]

The physics engine only updates 60 time per second; drawing frames any faster would be useless.

 

[slurm]

The physics engine only updates 60 time per second

I hope they change that in a upcoming patch, I'd be really nice if my fps acutally matched up to my refresh rate!

Where does it say the physics engine only updates at 60fps?

 

[hdeck]

use a program like riva tuner to override your refresh rate then turn on vsync and voila! over 60fps

 

[VIAN]

Hey there. I've found for myself (using FRAPS) that Doom3 is capping its framerate at 60. I've also found various sites/forums indicating this was the Master Plan all along. What I can't seem to find is *why*.

To put it simply, he's from Texas. No offense, I don't know why, cause he's an idiot. Why would you limit too much of a good thing?

you may think you can but you can't its all in your mind if no one had told you that it was at 60 but at 90 you probably would not of even picked up on it. Its a proven fact you can't see the difference.

First, where do you guys read this crap. Second, show me the proof. Because you just printed the most common BS I've heard akin to schizophrenia meaning multiple personalities.

Hmm let me see. TV runs at around 30 frames per second, yet I don't see any lag or stuttering at all there. It just seems to me that its common sense people knew that...

Oh look at mister scientist. Wrong. I see crappiness in the TV.
TV runs at 30fps because of bandwidth limitations. Then they interlace it for smoother motion.

Why don't you try this. Put your monitor to 85Hz, and watch something for like 5 minutes and then switch it to 60Hz and tell me you don't see a difference.

Shouldn't you be turning vsync OFF?!

Because of the tearing in Vsync off, even if you don't actually notice it, the image is more jumpy than with it on.

I have my monitor's refresh rate set at 85 hz (the highest it goes). Vertical tearing happens when the framerate exceeds the refresh rate...er...is that right? If so, would forcing a refresh rate of 85 hz in-game have any effect?

That's not correct. tearing can happen at any time. Most likely it happens without you noticing. It is most noticeable when you turn or strafe.

In Quake3 if you had higher FPS, you could jump farther.

I wonder how that makes sense.

 

[Looney]

This is why the FPS was capped in Q3 (and it was capped at 100):

Framerate Cap
There is now a 100fps framerate cap. Apparently, very fast framerates caused some strange physics bugs. We weren't sure if the cap was applied just to solve gameplay issues, or to also "level the playing field." We were somewhat concerned over the hard limit at 100, especially with the 3dfx and Nvidia next generation video cards just around the corner. We asked John Carmack about the cap and here's what he said:
There are some physics anomalies with very high framerates, and it is possible to flood slower modems on the outgoing side even with packet collapsing if you generate enough frames.

He also mentioned that you should be able to change the cap value, but it's still cheat protected in the current version. Personally, I'm ambivalent towards idea either way, as 100fps is fine for competitive play, especially if everyone else has the same maximum. One advantage of the cap is the possibility of using higher detail settings with next-generation hardware, without worrying about highly fluctuating numbers during intense action and scenes.

http://www.firingsquad.com/games/q3test107/page2.asp

 

[Noid]

Originally posted by: VIAN

In Quake3 if you had higher FPS, you could jump farther.

I wonder how that makes sense.

Google '125 FPS jumping Q3A tweak'

My 125fps cap allows higher and farther jumps in Q3A
(allows jumping tohardto reachplaces and faster accelleration)


back to topic...

I have in game screenshots of my framerate above 60

I apparently have no 'cap'

 

[THUGSROOK]

Originally posted by: Noid
I have in game screenshots of my framerate above 60
I apparently have no 'cap'

me too ~ ive seen as high as 84.4 fps.
im using a 75hz refresh rate. (LCD, verified in-game)

 

[Algere]

Originally posted by: Noid

Google '125 FPS jumping Q3A tweak'

My 125fps cap allows higher and farther jumps in Q3A
(allows jumping tohardto reachplaces and faster accelleration)

And I thought that was called circle jumping...