Dont understand why people are so stupid and think violence is an answer

[TraumaRN]

Perhaps this will all be a bit rhetorical, but seriously why do people feel the need to kill others?

Many people here in ATOT know I work in an inner city trauma hospital ER, and I worked last night. And last night there were 6 homicides...the easy answer is to say oh it's Detroit blah blah blah. But thats tired bullsh!t. It happens all over America every day. What gets us to the point that we don't even value real life? What gets me to the point that when one our the homicides came into the ER as a trauma code one(single gunshot to the chest) and here comes the paramedics their faces grime as they run into the trauma bay performing CPR as they run in, blood everywhere, for a moment everything is just surreal...almost movie like...what gets me to the point that it doesnt even bother me or really truly effect me...

And as they run in all the doctors, nurses, support staff, we all know he's gone. His toes are a grayish blue, as is the rest of his body that isn't covered in blood. The senior trauma physician yells out a question of what was done for this man and how long had he been down. 3 rounds of epi(epinephrine/adrenaline) and 3 rounds of atropine, and 3 shocks at 360, downtime 20 minutes shouts the paramedic. The physician calls for an ultrasound machine and uses it to quickly scan his heart for any activity. For a moment it becomes surreal again as everyone looks at the ultrasound machine. Yet there is no cardiac activity. 0142 in the morning...............Thats it he's gone she yells. No heroics this time...just another victim of senseless violence.

And yet there I was and we all felt the same defeat, you hate losing a patient, especially in a violent manner but at the same time I felt nothing. Like I was numb. Perhaps you wonder what this man could have done if he lived. What was he like, what did he do that someone would so callously take his life? It doesn't make for an easy job sometimes. And sometimes I question what I do. But in the end for all those patients you lose, you also win and save someone and damn does it feel amazing and make all the sufferings, hardship and emotions worth it.....even if just for a brief, fleeting moment. And that moment of saving someones life...it is an addiction and one that I won't mind feeding for the rest of my life...

Just thought I'd share my rambling thoughts with you all...

 

[Squisher]

I don't know what to say.

Your stories always capture me with their immediacy.

 

[Siddhartha]

1. Alcohol is a hell of a drug. People are more likely to try to kill each other when they drink.
2. One of the cost of the War on Drugs is seen in the number of drug turf related shootings, knifings, and murders.

 

[IGBT]

..and nearly all this violence is drug/alcohol related. No wonder when so many in society believe in recreational intoxication and from there the use escalates to what you see day in day out. And all the naysayer druggies will insist they don't have a problem yet rationalize recreational intoxication. Denial..refusal to admit the truth.

 

[KarmaPolice]

I truely like the idea of doing your job or being a doctor. My brother is in med school and he loves it. I have no doubt in my mind that I could pass med school. But...I dont like hospitals

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: IGBT
..and nearly all this violence is drug/alcohol related. No wonder when so many in society believe in recreational intoxication and from there the use escalates to what you see day in day out. And all the naysayer druggies will insist they don't have a problem yet rationalize recreational intoxication. Denial..refusal to admit the truth.

Parents have smoked weed nightly for the past 7-10 years. They have yet to kill someone. I know reports that some of the highest drug use is among people who work in in business management positions. I think the major problem is when you mix drug use with poverty and a lack of education. It gives them more of a "nothing to lose attitude".

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: IGBT
..and nearly all this violence is drug/alcohol related. No wonder when so many in society believe in recreational intoxication and from there the use escalates to what you see day in day out. And all the naysayer druggies will insist they don't have a problem yet rationalize recreational intoxication. Denial..refusal to admit the truth.

I am firmly anti-drug use/abuse. But I am just as firmly against the war on drugs and prohibition of drugs.

Recreational use/abuse alone does not cause the violent crime we see. The underground market run by criminals does. Prohibition is responsible for the vast majority of drug related crime.

 

[Deleted member 4644]

I think it's safe to say that drug use increases violence both because it lowers inhibitions and makes fights more likely, and also because of the side effects of the drug trade.

That said, urban violence is a very complex thing with dozens of causes and no easy answers.

 

[theprodigalrebel]

I understand crime gangs that deal in drugs going around killing one another. What I never understood was: what kind of thug shoots a young dude (college-type) walking home after working the night-shift in a gas station, to steal maybe a Casio watch and the 20 bucks he is likely to have in his wallet?

 

[Old Hippie]

Perhaps this will all be a bit rhetorical, but seriously why do people feel the need to kill others?

I can't answer your question, but respect and admire you for the job you're doing. :thumbsup:

 

[TraumaRN]

Originally posted by: theprodigalrebel
I understand crime gangs that deal in drugs going around killing one another. What I never understood was: what kind of thug shoots a young dude (college-type) walking home after working the night-shift in a gas station, to steal maybe a Casio watch and the 20 bucks he is likely to have in his wallet?

See those are the ones that really get you....really get under your skin that people think you have to kill someone for 20 bucks.

And I don't try to pretend to understand urban violence, the drugs, etc...all I can say is that most of it is bullsh!t. Most of them are kids....or they think like and act like kids. There is no rhyme or reason. There is no glory. And when you get to take care of these people you see the end result. That these 'men' who most of the time are barely out of high school scared to tears scared to tears suddenly when they laying on the table bleeding out it becomes real to them. Yet if we save them and they recover they think that it's a badge of honor and in turn are more brazen. It's such a nasty vicious cycle at times.

 

[AgaBoogaBoo]

DeathBUA - when sh!t hits the fan, I tell people to stay *calm*, I think it's one of the most important things thanks to someone who got that stuck in my head. Being able to stay calm in these situations is an excellent trait, my compliments to you. I realize that it may be due to exposure of extreme situations, but that doesn't matter, the fact is that you're able to stay calm.

 

[kranky]

It's the culture they live in. Their culture glorifies drugs and violence. Gotta carry a gun to get "respect". Someone bumps into you, you have to take action since they disrespected you. They have twisted the meaning of the word so that it means "kill before you get killed". Just like you said - if you get shot and survive, it's a badge of honor. Kids who work hard in school are ridiculed for sucking up. 14-year-old girls get pregnant so their friends will envy them.

Meanwhile, I see the parents of dead kids crying on the news every night demanding something be done to stop this madness. And witnesses to shootings claim to have seen nothing, because it ain't cool to rat out your neighbor. But keep that drug money coming in so I can roll with that Escalade, which gets me respect.

Until they change the culture, it's going to continue. They are going to sink further into a lawless, kill or be killed environment.

 

[RallyMaster]

JEEBUS!

 

[TraumaRN]

Originally posted by: AgaBoogaBoo
DeathBUA - when sh!t hits the fan, I tell people to stay *calm*, I think it's one of the most important things thanks to someone who got that stuck in my head. Being able to stay calm in these situations is an excellent trait, my compliments to you. I realize that it may be due to exposure of extreme situations, but that doesn't matter, the fact is that you're able to stay calm.

I wasn't always this calm. No one is at first. I mean if you are really working hard to save a critical patient it definitely gets your blood going but you are correct staying level headed and being able to think really helps. Like I said nowadays it doesnt bother me as much. Not everyone has it is. When a doctor freezes up on a critical patient it's fvcking scary as hell. That WILL get your(and my) adrenaline pounding in a hurry.

Originally posted by: kranky
It's the culture they live in. Their culture glorifies drugs and violence. Gotta carry a gun to get "respect". Someone bumps into you, you have to take action since they disrespected you. They have twisted the meaning of the word so that it means "kill before you get killed". Just like you said - if you get shot and survive, it's a badge of honor. Kids who work hard in school are ridiculed for sucking up. 14-year-old girls get pregnant so their friends will envy them.

Meanwhile, I see the parents of dead kids crying on the news every night demanding something be done to stop this madness. And witnesses to shootings claim to have seen nothing, because it ain't cool to rat out your neighbor. But keep that drug money coming in so I can roll with that Escalade, which gets me respect.

Until they change the culture, it's going to continue. They are going to sink further into a lawless, kill or be killed environment.

Despite some generalizations you are very much correct with 95% of your post. It's so disgusting at times. I had an 18 yr old last nite getting an STD check and she was telling me how much she wants to be a nurse but how hard it is to work your way up. So many people DONT want you to succeed or influence you with drugs because it's easier money. Whats worse is I don't think the government does enough to help the situation. And I'm not referring to welfare. They need to make an effort to tear down abandoned buildings, start fixing the schools(school is where ALOT of the problems start), start getting better jobs for these people. Idle hands are the devil's playthings they say. It's so true too. I'd wager to bet 90% or greater of these young people don't have jobs. Why work a job where you get 7.50 an hour when you can deal drugs and make 500 or 1,000 dollars a day. And they'd rather risk their life on that prospect....and it's not real to them until someone is shot or stabbed or run over with a car.

Sometimes I find myself wishing that more would die so that it can't be a badge of honor. Horrible thought I know but my mind does think these things at times. And the other thing too, rap/hip-hop music whatever you wanna call it....it definitely plays a HUGE role for many of these kids. They will idolize and do things that they hear in the music whether you want to believe that or not.

 

[91TTZ]

This is proof that prohibition works. It's not working in the direction that they want it to (reducing crime), but it is working nonetheless (increasing crime). Just like it did last time.

 

[Deleted member 4644]

What is the survival rate for people shot in the chest? What about people who have actually been hit in the heart?

How about for asystole patients w/o trauma?

 

[JEDI]

Originally posted by: DeathBUA
Perhaps this will all be a bit rhetorical, but seriously why do people feel the need to kill others?

Many people here in ATOT know I work in an inner city trauma hospital ER, and I worked last night. And last night there were 6 homicides...the easy answer is to say oh it's Detroit blah blah blah. But thats tired bullsh!t. It happens all over America every day. What gets us to the point that we don't even value real life? What gets me to the point that when one our the homicides came into the ER as a trauma code one(single gunshot to the chest) and here comes the paramedics their faces grime as they run into the trauma bay performing CPR as they run in, blood everywhere, for a moment everything is just surreal...almost movie like...what gets me to the point that it doesnt even bother me or really truly effect me...

And as they run in all the doctors, nurses, support staff, we all know he's gone. His toes are a grayish blue, as is the rest of his body that isn't covered in blood. The senior trauma physician yells out a question of what was done for this man and how long had he been down. 3 rounds of epi(epinephrine/adrenaline) and 3 rounds of atropine, and 3 shocks at 360, downtime 20 minutes shouts the paramedic. The physician calls for an ultrasound machine and uses it to quickly scan his heart for any activity. For a moment it becomes surreal again as everyone looks at the ultrasound machine. Yet there is no cardiac activity. 0142 in the morning...............Thats it he's gone she yells. No heroics this time...just another victim of senseless violence.

And yet there I was and we all felt the same defeat, you hate losing a patient, especially in a violent manner but at the same time I felt nothing. Like I was numb. Perhaps you wonder what this man could have done if he lived. What was he like, what did he do that someone would so callously take his life? It doesn't make for an easy job sometimes. And sometimes I question what I do. But in the end for all those patients you lose, you also win and save someone and damn does it feel amazing and make all the sufferings, hardship and emotions worth it.....even if just for a brief, fleeting moment. And that moment of saving someones life...it is an addiction and one that I won't mind feeding for the rest of my life...

Just thought I'd share my rambling thoughts with you all...

feeling numb ---> burn out?

 

[IEC]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: IGBT
..and nearly all this violence is drug/alcohol related. No wonder when so many in society believe in recreational intoxication and from there the use escalates to what you see day in day out. And all the naysayer druggies will insist they don't have a problem yet rationalize recreational intoxication. Denial..refusal to admit the truth.

I am firmly anti-drug use/abuse. But I am just as firmly against the war on drugs and prohibition of drugs.

Recreational use/abuse alone does not cause the violent crime we see. The underground market run by criminals does. Prohibition is responsible for the vast majority of drug related crime.

Interestingly enough, I agree with Amused. Prohibition of drugs is the reason why drug-related crime exists. Illegal goods entice greedy criminals to traffick in them, whether it be illegal arms, drugs, animals, etc.

Also, our prisons don't do a good job of reforming people - they usually end up as hardened criminals by the time they get out...

 

[potato28]

Death, you should write a book after you retire. "ER Trauma's, as told to ATOT" "ATOT commentary extra". But other than that, sounds like you have a different job

 

[TraumaRN]

Originally posted by: LordSegan
What is the survival rate for people shot in the chest? What about people who have actually been hit in the heart?

How about for asystole patients w/o trauma?

People shot in the chest....survival depends on where they are hit. And of course the bullet matters too. This guy was shot nearly center mass. It was about an inch to the right of his breastbone about mid-chest level. It was a .357. Probably hit a pulmonary artery.

If you get hit in the chest and it hits nothing immediately vital(major blood vessel, heart etc.) and you get immediate care you've got a decent chance(if you goto a hospital with good trauma care/doctors). If the bullet goes through and through(as in a clean entry and clean exit wound) your chances are better. When the bullet doesnt come out the other side survival rate goes down.

People hit in the heart....chances are extremely extremely slim. Even with a small caliber bullet. Unless you can do an immediate chest cut-down and even then probably no.

Non-trauma asystole has a less than 10% long term survival rate. I've only seen two patients covert from asystole to a rhythm again. The one crashed six(!!!) more times before finally passing. The other was a couple nights ago and doing ok for now.

 

[TraumaRN]

Originally posted by: JEDI

Originally posted by: DeathBUA
Perhaps this will all be a bit rhetorical, but seriously why do people feel the need to kill others?

Many people here in ATOT know I work in an inner city trauma hospital ER, and I worked last night. And last night there were 6 homicides...the easy answer is to say oh it's Detroit blah blah blah. But thats tired bullsh!t. It happens all over America every day. What gets us to the point that we don't even value real life? What gets me to the point that when one our the homicides came into the ER as a trauma code one(single gunshot to the chest) and here comes the paramedics their faces grime as they run into the trauma bay performing CPR as they run in, blood everywhere, for a moment everything is just surreal...almost movie like...what gets me to the point that it doesnt even bother me or really truly effect me...

And as they run in all the doctors, nurses, support staff, we all know he's gone. His toes are a grayish blue, as is the rest of his body that isn't covered in blood. The senior trauma physician yells out a question of what was done for this man and how long had he been down. 3 rounds of epi(epinephrine/adrenaline) and 3 rounds of atropine, and 3 shocks at 360, downtime 20 minutes shouts the paramedic. The physician calls for an ultrasound machine and uses it to quickly scan his heart for any activity. For a moment it becomes surreal again as everyone looks at the ultrasound machine. Yet there is no cardiac activity. 0142 in the morning...............Thats it he's gone she yells. No heroics this time...just another victim of senseless violence.

And yet there I was and we all felt the same defeat, you hate losing a patient, especially in a violent manner but at the same time I felt nothing. Like I was numb. Perhaps you wonder what this man could have done if he lived. What was he like, what did he do that someone would so callously take his life? It doesn't make for an easy job sometimes. And sometimes I question what I do. But in the end for all those patients you lose, you also win and save someone and damn does it feel amazing and make all the sufferings, hardship and emotions worth it.....even if just for a brief, fleeting moment. And that moment of saving someones life...it is an addiction and one that I won't mind feeding for the rest of my life...

Just thought I'd share my rambling thoughts with you all...

feeling numb ---> burn out?

Certainly not burned out. Just tired of senseless violence.

Trust me I love my job, I know what burned out nurses look like and I'm far from it.

 

[JEDI]

Originally posted by: DeathBUA

Originally posted by: AgaBoogaBoo
DeathBUA - when sh!t hits the fan, I tell people to stay *calm*, I think it's one of the most important things thanks to someone who got that stuck in my head. Being able to stay calm in these situations is an excellent trait, my compliments to you. I realize that it may be due to exposure of extreme situations, but that doesn't matter, the fact is that you're able to stay calm.

I wasn't always this calm. No one is at first. I mean if you are really working hard to save a critical patient it definitely gets your blood going but you are correct staying level headed and being able to think really helps. Like I said nowadays it doesnt bother me as much. Not everyone has it is. When a doctor freezes up on a critical patient it's fvcking scary as hell. That WILL get your(and my) adrenaline pounding in a hurry.

Originally posted by: kranky
It's the culture they live in. Their culture glorifies drugs and violence. Gotta carry a gun to get "respect". Someone bumps into you, you have to take action since they disrespected you. They have twisted the meaning of the word so that it means "kill before you get killed". Just like you said - if you get shot and survive, it's a badge of honor. Kids who work hard in school are ridiculed for sucking up. 14-year-old girls get pregnant so their friends will envy them.

Meanwhile, I see the parents of dead kids crying on the news every night demanding something be done to stop this madness. And witnesses to shootings claim to have seen nothing, because it ain't cool to rat out your neighbor. But keep that drug money coming in so I can roll with that Escalade, which gets me respect.

Until they change the culture, it's going to continue. They are going to sink further into a lawless, kill or be killed environment.

Despite some generalizations you are very much correct with 95% of your post. It's so disgusting at times. I had an 18 yr old last nite getting an STD check and she was telling me how much she wants to be a nurse but how hard it is to work your way up. So many people DONT want you to succeed or influence you with drugs because it's easier money. Whats worse is I don't think the government does enough to help the situation. And I'm not referring to welfare. They need to make an effort to tear down abandoned buildings, start fixing the schools(school is where ALOT of the problems start), start getting better jobs for these people. Idle hands are the devil's playthings they say. It's so true too. I'd wager to bet 90% or greater of these young people don't have jobs. Why work a job where you get 7.50 an hour when you can deal drugs and make 500 or 1,000 dollars a day. And they'd rather risk their life on that prospect....and it's not real to them until someone is shot or stabbed or run over with a car.

Sometimes I find myself wishing that more would die so that it can't be a badge of honor. Horrible thought I know but my mind does think these things at times. And the other thing too, rap/hip-hop music whatever you wanna call it....it definitely plays a HUGE role for many of these kids. They will idolize and do things that they hear in the music whether you want to believe that or not.

it's a myth that drug dealers make 500/day, according to the book Freakonomics. low level street dealers make less than minimum wage. it's the higher ups who are making all the $.

it's like sports. only a few make it to the majors. those who cant and wont go into another job make peanuts playing minor league AA.

unfortuntely, those who choose the drug dealer path believe in this myth.

 

[maziwanka]

sometimes i wish i had gone into medicine. thanks for the posting OP.

 

[TraumaRN]

Originally posted by: JEDI

Originally posted by: DeathBUA

Originally posted by: AgaBoogaBoo
DeathBUA - when sh!t hits the fan, I tell people to stay *calm*, I think it's one of the most important things thanks to someone who got that stuck in my head. Being able to stay calm in these situations is an excellent trait, my compliments to you. I realize that it may be due to exposure of extreme situations, but that doesn't matter, the fact is that you're able to stay calm.

I wasn't always this calm. No one is at first. I mean if you are really working hard to save a critical patient it definitely gets your blood going but you are correct staying level headed and being able to think really helps. Like I said nowadays it doesnt bother me as much. Not everyone has it is. When a doctor freezes up on a critical patient it's fvcking scary as hell. That WILL get your(and my) adrenaline pounding in a hurry.

Originally posted by: kranky
It's the culture they live in. Their culture glorifies drugs and violence. Gotta carry a gun to get "respect". Someone bumps into you, you have to take action since they disrespected you. They have twisted the meaning of the word so that it means "kill before you get killed". Just like you said - if you get shot and survive, it's a badge of honor. Kids who work hard in school are ridiculed for sucking up. 14-year-old girls get pregnant so their friends will envy them.

Meanwhile, I see the parents of dead kids crying on the news every night demanding something be done to stop this madness. And witnesses to shootings claim to have seen nothing, because it ain't cool to rat out your neighbor. But keep that drug money coming in so I can roll with that Escalade, which gets me respect.

Until they change the culture, it's going to continue. They are going to sink further into a lawless, kill or be killed environment.

Despite some generalizations you are very much correct with 95% of your post. It's so disgusting at times. I had an 18 yr old last nite getting an STD check and she was telling me how much she wants to be a nurse but how hard it is to work your way up. So many people DONT want you to succeed or influence you with drugs because it's easier money. Whats worse is I don't think the government does enough to help the situation. And I'm not referring to welfare. They need to make an effort to tear down abandoned buildings, start fixing the schools(school is where ALOT of the problems start), start getting better jobs for these people. Idle hands are the devil's playthings they say. It's so true too. I'd wager to bet 90% or greater of these young people don't have jobs. Why work a job where you get 7.50 an hour when you can deal drugs and make 500 or 1,000 dollars a day. And they'd rather risk their life on that prospect....and it's not real to them until someone is shot or stabbed or run over with a car.

Sometimes I find myself wishing that more would die so that it can't be a badge of honor. Horrible thought I know but my mind does think these things at times. And the other thing too, rap/hip-hop music whatever you wanna call it....it definitely plays a HUGE role for many of these kids. They will idolize and do things that they hear in the music whether you want to believe that or not.

it's a myth that drug dealers make 500/day, according to the book Freakonomics. low level street dealers make less than minimum wage. it's the higher ups who are making all the $.

it's like sports. only a few make it to the majors. those who cant and wont go into another job make peanuts playing minor league AA.

unfortuntely, those who choose the drug dealer path believe in this myth.

I know it's a myth for sure. But it doesnt matter anyways so many people on the streets believe it and ultimately drives so many to the drug trade. And trust me I can pick out a high level dealer faster than you blink. They are generally the smart(er) ones. Plus my hospital handles all the county and city prisoners so I see many jailed dealers and what not. They like to come in for what we affectionately call shackleitis/handcuffitis.