Don't buy a diamond. Ever.

[alkemyst]

Diamonds are no different than any other commodity...whether or not the desire was created at the time...it still became the desire of the public.

Also almost 100 years have passed now and that sort of makes it a tradition now.

Some are no longer buying diamonds...this is one of the reasons a 1 carat stone was around $50k in the 80's and the price dropped to the $10k or less mark now.

I like a nice diamond for my lady, but I am not going to spend two months salary or any thing like it.

 

[bozack]

Just thought I would finish up in this thread by saying the person who posted it has already shown themselves to be a blatant hypocrite as illustrated here:

http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.cfm?catid=38&threadid=1063487

How someone can have serious and personal convictions about the Diamond industry and then openly support the Tobacco industry is just a conundrum.

The wrongdoings of the Tobacco industry which include blatantly decptive advertisting, economic/political control and manipulation, not to mention pusing a product that is not only known addictive and also to cause death, make what Debeers has done seem like a walk in the park and any rational person would only assume that someone so against the crimes of Debeers would sooner jump off a bridge than support something as vile as the Tobacco industry

Kranky: Yes and no, yes being materialistic would be defined by someone showing off their posession, but also for centuaries people have taken pride in things they have worked hard for, and for centuaries people have given material gifts as a symbol of appreciation.

What I find interesting is in one article they suggest that people opt for something more rare than Diamonds as an alternative...and I wonder if the Ruby or emerald suppliers at one time did try to break into the market that diamonds hold....however if this were the case then what would people buy when the supply of both were exhausted? or how expensive would these items become since not only are they truly rare but also in high demand? and do the majority of women like distinct and bright colors that rubies and emeralds are known for.

resellers like diamonds because they are plentiful, so everyone that wants one can have one and it can be new if so desired.

most women I meet like them over other stones not because they are expensive but because they are a neutral color and they can go with virtually anything they chose to wear (women have been fashon conscious for years guys, don't even try to change this).

waht would be interesting would be posting this information in a thread worded like this on a bridal site like the knot.com and see what type of responses that you get since they are afterall the primary market for said product.

 

[alkemyst]

I believe there were threads such as this one on both theknot.com and diamondtalk.com

The thing is like anything rarity isn't really what anyone is buying anymore, it's all marketing. Something that is rare is not going to be on every married woman's finger, hanging from their kid's ears, on there watch, on the ends of drill bits, etc....if anyone with half a brain sat down and thought about things instead of just accepting what they hear/see for face value we'd be a lot better off .

People's desire for a diamond is the same as the desire for a Porsche/Mercedes/BMW, Nike/Reebok/Puma, Prada/Gucci/Louis, etc....it's being seen in the 'gear' society deems better than average and that makes them feel better than average.

Then you have other people who put weights on things despite having resources to have it all. You will have the person that lives in a $500k+ home, but drives a $20k car... shops at thrift/discount and the person that lives in a hovel but has a $100k sportscar, the best jewelry and clothing and eats like a King everynight then some that have it all with some of those trying to let everyone know they do and some that could care less.

The bottom line with a diamond, if you buy it at Tiffany it's not going to be any different if the specs are the same as the independent guy, but it will be up to 5x more expensive....diamonds have gone up a little since my last about 4 years ago...but I bought a really nice .71 carat F VS1 Princess with Good to Very Good angles/cut/symmetry and polish while in college that most would think cost over $5k and it would sell of at least that in a mall/jewelry store...it wasn't as easy as just running down and picking one up at the mall...but I got a way better stone than even those at a few times the cost I paid.

 

[Tal]

they are so shiny

 

[Rastus]

All the land that all of our food was produced on was gained by war. No matter what part of the world it comes from. Do you think I'm going to stop eating because of that? Guess again. Diamonds are no different.

 

[alkemyst]

Here's the thing....'fads' come out and people jump on the bandwagon to get 'one'.....maybe this is part of 'natural selection' where the most flashy bird gets the mate [it works EXACTLY the same way most of the time]. Some of these fads then become fashion and then some tradition. At the top level the manufacturers fight for control and to monopolize the segment, just because the stores or shop are nice doesn't mean the board of directors/owner/chairman is. Many of the comporation owners today come from long-bloodlines of world dominance and will allow nothing to topple that.

That's the really sad thing....people are naturally materiallistic whether or not those 'materials' have value to most people. We place weight on items that are not food, water and shelter and they are important to us. This drives competition which drives fighting which drives killing/war sometimes all over an item which can be easily gotten from another place.

The main thing is most companies will use their resources to venture into anything economically viable and if it goes against their own company ethics, they will from a separate entity and try to keep the bad publicity away from the parent company.

So you can replace Diamonds in this thread with car makes, clothing companies, colognes/perfumes, etc....about 99% of the things we buy and want are about what the next guy/girl thinks of them and has nothing to do with their function or quality.

Now there are going to be those that will step up and say they don't do that and they only shop smart...however that's a minority and also they are usually not seeing something else they do this with. Almost everyone has at least one thing they will go with the trend over the function.

 

[kranky]

Originally posted by: alkemyst
So you can replace Diamonds in this thread with car makes, clothing companies, colognes/perfumes, etc....about 99% of the things we buy and want are about what the next guy/girl thinks of them and has nothing to do with their function or quality.

Now there are going to be those that will step up and say they don't do that and they only shop smart...however that's a minority and also they are usually not seeing something else they do this with. Almost everyone has at least one thing they will go with the trend over the function.

I buy certain things that aren't necessarily the cheapest available option, but I guarantee you it's not because I care one iota what someone else thinks. I look for value. In fact, if someone thinks less of me because of my seven-year-old car, or the fact that I don't wear clothes with logos, that tells me a lot more about them than what it tells them about me. Those are the people I don't like to associate with, and I don't lack for good friends.

Read the book "The Millionaire Next Door" and you'll quickly revise your "99%" statistic drastically downward.

 

[alkemyst]

I am not sure what you mean....read the book "Millionaire...." and I will revise my 99% rank for ppl who buy because what everyone else thinks?

That book probably reinforces that notion....less than 1% of the country and world are millionaires. Most of them get that way by being frugal, however, it's not millionaires at the top anymore...it's billionaires+, most people spend way outside their income to 'fit in'...if they instead saved and invested, they would eventually have the resources to fit in. We are 'want it now' people, mostly conditioned into this by ads for credit cards, buy now pay later, etc...

I never mentioned it's only because of what other people think, I mentioned people are not driven only by function, but by what they percieve....this perception is not always the best value. You may pick wisely and I am not argueing that, it's just not what most do.

 

[kranky]

The book is about the large number of wealthy people who live middle-class lives. They don't flaunt their wealth. They live in $150,000 homes instead of the $750,000 homes they could easily afford. And they do that because they don't fall into the trap of materialism and they don't try to keep up with the next guy.

It points out that many wealthy people aren't satisfied unless they make sure everyone else knows they are wealthy. It turns out there are a lot of people who could be living in exclusive communities, driving expensive cars and taking lavish vacations but choose not to. Because their lifestyle is low-profile, it's not obvious how many there are. The general public just assumes if someone doesn't live a "wealthy lifestyle", they can't be wealthy. Not so.

It's not that they are psychotic and eat out of dumpsters, but they don't see value in wasting money. They are exactly the type of people who wouldn't spend $10,000 on an engagement ring.

It's a fascinating book.

 

[Tsunami982]

i totally agree with you. ok now you have to tell me a way to convince my girlfriend.

 

[alkemyst]

Even those that live by and follow that book I will guarantee they have things that they choose due to the value they place on them and not the real value they have...humans have their favorites and often it has nothing to do with real quality or function.

A nice diamond does not have to cost 10k. One should be able to get a nice sized 3/4 carat for around $2-3k. Things that help lower the cost are instead of buying .25, .50, .75 and 1.0 carat, buy the slightly under or over sizes like a .72 carat. Once you are at the SI1 mark it's almost impossible to see the flaws with the naked eye so buying VS, VVS, IF, or FL is purely a quality thing, same with color over G/H sometimes even a nice I is good esp if set in yellow gold.

The other real variable is cut (not shape)...a well cut but lower quality in the 4C measurements will outshine a poorly cut but perfect 4C stone.

There is a big price jump at 1 carat.

Also for some like my brother $10k on a diamond was costly but not big deal.

 

[dquan97]

I'll just get my wife some choice steak

 

[alkemyst]

My wife doesn't even have a ring yet I am sort of upset, but we are trying to get her citizenship (she's japanese) and a house straightened out....I have bought diamonds two times before for other women so I feel like I am letting her down.

However, she would rather have a nice watch than a ring...so I may invest my $$$ in a nice watch for her and a betterthandiamond.com (I think thats the site) for a ring. There are some really nice simulants (fake diamonds) out now that even celebrities are buying into as it's hard to find well-cut diamonds lately as the cutters are not taking their time anymore since so few consumers know anything other than Cut/Carat/Clarity/Color.

 

[duhh]

Originally posted by: Orsorum
Source?

I read it on the internet, it must be true!


On a sidenote, I'd like to point out to everyone that currency has an artificial value, theres no value to the paper you are using. A $100 bill costs $.02 to make...

Its socially ingrained into a lot of people that lab created gems are not as good as the real thing. horror story or not people are still gonna buy em.

As far as tradition goes, we have family triditions that have only lasted 5 years. A tradition by definition is a time honored practice, it doesn't matter how long its been practiced for....

 

[azazyel]

I am not sure if anyone has brought this up but weren't black opals used as the wedding stone of choice before diamonds? And sorry to say guys they are just as expensive as diamonds.

 

[Lola]

Originally posted by: azazyel
I am not sure if anyone has brought this up but weren't black opals used as the wedding stone of choice before diamonds? And sorry to say guys they are just as expensive as diamonds.

I believe you could be right as well as emeralds as well. they both are more rare.

 

[alkemyst]

There have been tokens for marriage almost since the beginning of time, almost all of the time hard to obtain.

DeBeers was just successful at making the diamond an almost worldwide tradition.

There are many people getting away from Diamonds with simulants, emeralds, rubies, and other precious stones or jewelery.

 

[dxkj]

Sad...so sad. I weep for the future of humanity, where the strength of your love is only evidenced in a PIECE OF F*CKING STONE.

Umm, love evidenced in a stone? It's a symbol, it wouldn't mean less if it was a piece of blacktop. It's the symbol. I have seen friend with sapphire wedding rings, etc. It's the whole idea that the item is precious to symbolize that the person is precious to you.

If we boycotted everything in this world that led to the suffering of others, we would be farmers again, relying on ourselves to do everything. Is that the way it should be? Perhaps, I think the needless suffering of others is horrible. Do you live on a farm as such? Do you drive a car that uses oil? If not, then I encourage you to mind your own words, and put them into practice rather than harping on one area. The evils of oil have been pointed out, are you boycotting that as well?

I'm not even going to bother reading this thread any farther.

 

[Gryphon]

Originally posted by: MachFive

Originally posted by: Deeko

Originally posted by: Whade
Try telling that to your spouse...

Bingo.

"Honey, I read a fascinating article today that detailed the horrors the diamond trade. It was eye-opening. Here's a copy."

It's not that freaking hard.

I actually did that. i read that article a few months ago and I told her about it. she says, "Oh, really!?...", was quiet for a while, and then never said anything else about it. I have a feeling that if i ever give her a ring, she'll expect a diamond on it.. sigh.. it was worth a try.

 

[Vette73]

Originally posted by: Gryphon

Originally posted by: MachFive

Originally posted by: Deeko

Originally posted by: Whade
Try telling that to your spouse...

Bingo.

"Honey, I read a fascinating article today that detailed the horrors the diamond trade. It was eye-opening. Here's a copy."

It's not that freaking hard.

I actually did that. i read that article a few months ago and I told her about it. she says, "Oh, really!?...", was quiet for a while, and then never said anything else about it. I have a feeling that if i ever give her a ring, she'll expect a diamond on it.. sigh.. it was worth a try.

Then get a Man-Made diamond. Cheaper and better quality.

 

[bleuless]

i just saw this thread today, and i was not going to reply or add my comment, but the stupidity that's going around is just upsetting, so its my turn to vent.

first of all, MACHFIVE, thank you for writing this, because this is first time that i realize things you mentioned. so his thread indeed did help me do what i think is right.

and as with all battles, you have to start from somewhere. if you don't try to make a change, because you think its futile, then you are just a number. so we all should "try" not support the monopoly or the wrong doings by debeer regardless of how futile it might be.

and all those of you trying to argue against MachFive, lets hear some better arguements cuz so far they all svcked. and this is from a third person perspective.

regardless of if you have to get a diamond or not, but atleast now if you know the story behind it and where/how it probably come from, we are wining the fight. and if you spread the words, maybe some day debeer will become like tabacco companies and try to do some good to balance out their evil deeds.