Don't ask, Don't tell, Don't matter

jonks

Lifer
Feb 7, 2005
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http://www.cbsnews.com/stories...utes/main3615278.shtml

Military Soft On Don't Ask, Don't Tell?
60 Minutes: Is Military More Tolerant Of Gay Members In Wartime?

Dec. 13, 2007
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(CBS) A gay soldier says he disclosed his sexuality to his superiors, even offering graphic proof, and was neither discharged nor reprimanded, despite the military?s "don't ask, don't tell" policy on homosexuality.

Army Sgt. Darren Manzella appears in a Lesley Stahl report on gays in the wartime U.S. military to be broadcast on 60 Minutes this Sunday, Dec. 16, at 7 p.m. ET/PT.

Manzella, a medic who served in Iraq for a year, currently serves as medical liaison for the 1st Cavalry Division stationed in Kuwait, where he says he is "out" to his entire chain of command, including a three-star general. After leaving Iraq, he started receiving anonymous emails warning him about his openness that suggested he was being watched, so he went to his commander to head off an investigation he felt was coming. "I didn?t know how else to do it," he tells Stahl, acknowledging that he initiated an investigation of himself by violating the policy. "I felt more comfortable being the one to say, 'This is what is real,'" Manzella says.

He then says his commander reported him, as he was obliged to do, and then "I had to go see my battalion commander, who read me my rights," he says. He turned over pictures of him and his boyfriend, including video of a passionate kiss, to aid the investigation. But to his surprise, "I was told to go back to work. There was no evidence of homosexuality," says Manzella. "'You?re not gay,'" he says his superiors told him. This response confused him and, he says, the closest a superior officer came to addressing his sexuality was to say "I don't care if you're gay or not."

Manzella's commanders may not be the only ones who are indifferent to gays serving openly under them. Discharges of gay soldiers have dropped dramatically since the Afghan and Iraq wars began, from 1,200 a year in 2001 to barely 600 now. With the military struggling to recruit and retain soldiers, gay soldiers claim that commanders are reluctant to discharge critical personnel in the middle of a war.

Stahl spoke with several gay former military members who say they were also out openly in their units, known to be gay by as many as a hundred other service members. "They don?t care?.these are our peers?the 'Will and Grace' generation," says Brian Fricke, referring to the popular television program featuring a gay character. Fricke was a Marine Corps avionics technician who served in Iraq. "They grew up with it in the media?.They see gay people as people?Americans," says Fricke. "They don't see gay people as people with a disability?."

These gay former service members say they did not re-enlist because they oppose the don't ask, don't tell policy, which they say shows the military's leadership is out of step with American society and its allies. Gays serve openly in the British military and in those of the other 14 NATO countries.

U.S. Army Maj. Daniel Davis, speaking to Stahl out of uniform to emphasize that he does not speak for the U.S. military, says don't ask, don't tell is necessary to achieve cohesion among soldiers, especially those in combat. Most service members are conservative, he says, and won't readily accept gays. "If you have a moral or religious issue, you cannot order me to [bond] with that [gay] person," says Davis, a specialist in battlefield tactics. "Our purpose in the military is not social engineering?.It?s about fighting and winning the nation's wars."
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So as recruitment wanes, discharging gay soldiers does too. No surprise. But I wonder what will happen when it comes time to dish out benefits, someone is looking to cut costs, and all of a sudden hundreds or thousands of gay soldiers find themselves SOL because they were openly gay against regulations.
 

Uhtrinity

Platinum Member
Dec 21, 2003
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There were some guys in my units (over 5 years) who were gay and everyone knew. Most didn't care and never talked about it openly. I suspect most people in the military could really care less, and it is only those who have an agenda that will push the issue. Now that this guys case is out in the open he will probably be frog marched out of the military.
 
May 16, 2000
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The whole thing is utterly ludicrous of course, and should simply be done away with. Then there's no doubt about equal and fair treatment.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
45,884
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The "damages unit cohesion" bullshit has pretty much been disproved by the nations that have adjusted their policies not to mention the fact that there are (and have been ) gays in our military probably since it started. Seems to function just fine as far as I can tell.
 
Feb 6, 2007
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Yeah, the unit cohesion argument never holds up. Every time I've heard a story about being gay in the military, it's like Uhtrinity's example; soldier is gay, no one in the unit gives a rat's ass. My army buddy said there has been at least one gay guy in his unit and it never bothered anyone. As long as they can withstand the racism, sexism and homophobia that seem to come with being in the Army (in a joking way, mind you, but nonetheless present), who gives a shit what sexual orientation they are?
 

boredhokie

Senior member
May 7, 2005
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I DID wonder why some of the military vehicles in Iraq were Saabs and New Beatle convertibles...