Don’t Blame Luck When Your Models Misfire - A cautionary tale for wallstreet

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,994
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When you're putting all your confidence in models that couldn't possible model the real world perfectly, you're not going to catch every variable that could cause your model to fail. This is exactly why Wall Street needs to be heavily regulated. If they weren't able to use so much leverage and they had more reserves to cushion blows and harsh clawbacks of bonuses to serve as the right type of incentive, we wouldn't have to deal with this shit. Instead, these execs are using models they don't understand.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/77bf5f98-4441-11e0-931d-00144feab49a.html#axzz1FS9a2o5L

For those who cannot read the article due to the stupid FT paywall:
Don’t blame luck when your models misfire
By John Kay Published: March 1 2011 22:31 | Last updated: March 1 2011 22:31
When the financial crisis broke in August 2007, David Viniar, chief financial officer of Goldman Sachs, famously commented that 25-standard deviation events had occurred on several successive days. If you marked your position to market every day for a million years, there would still be a less than one in a million chance of experiencing a 25-standard deviation event. None had occurred. What had happened was that the models Goldman used to manage risk failed to describe the world in which it operated.
If the water in your glass turns to wine, you should consider more prosaic explanations before announcing a miracle. If your coin comes up heads 10 times in a row – a one in a thousand probability – it may be your lucky day. But the more likely reason is that the coin is biased, or the person who flips the penny or reports the result is cheating. The source of most extreme outcomes is not the fulfilment of possible but improbable predictions within models, but events that are outside the scope of these models.
Sixty years ago, a French economist described the Allais paradox, based on the discovery that most people treat very high probabilities quite differently from certainties. Not only do normal people think this way, but they are right to do so. There are no 99 per cent probabilities in the real world. Very high and very low probabilities are artifices of models, and the probability that any model perfectly describes the world is much less than one. Once you compound the probabilities delivered by the model with the unknown but large probability of model failure, the reassurance you crave disappears.
Techniques such as value at risk modelling – the principal methodology used by banks and pressed on them by their regulators – may be of help in monitoring the day-to-day volatility of returns. But they are useless for understanding extreme events, which is, unfortunately, the main purpose for which they are employed. This is what Mr Viniar and others learnt, or should have learnt, in 2007.
Yet the use of risk models of this type is one of many areas of finance in which nothing much has changed. The European Union is ploughing ahead with its Solvency II directive for insurers, which – incredibly – is explicitly modelled on the failed Basel II agreements for monitoring bank solvency. Solvency II requires that businesses develop models that show the probability of imminent collapse is below 0.5 per cent.
Insurance companies do fail, but not for the reasons described in such models. They fail because of events that were unanticipated or ignored, such as the long-hidden danger from asbestos exposure, or the House of Lords judgment on Equitable Life. They fail because underwriters misunderstood the risk characteristics of their policies, as at AIG, or because of fraud, as at Equity Fundings.
Multiple sigma outcomes do not happen in real life. When all the Merchant of Venice’s ships are lost at sea during the interval, we know that we are watching a play, not an account of history. Shakespeare, no fool, knew that too. In Act V Antonio was able to write back his loss provisions in full even if it was too late to fulfil his banking covenant to Shylock.
But today the modellers are in charge, not the poets. Like practitioners of alchemy and quack medicine, these modellers thrive on our desire to believe impossible things. But the search for objective means of controlling risks that can reliably be monitored externally is as fruitless as the quest to turn base metal into gold. Like the alchemists and the quacks, the risk modellers have created an industry whose intense technical debates with each other lead gullible outsiders to believe that this is a profession with genuine expertise.
We will succeed in managing financial risk better only when we come to recognise the limitations of formal modelling. Control of risk is almost entirely a matter of management competence, well-crafted incentives, robust structures and systems, and simplicity and transparency of design.

Just look what happened to the collapse, some math wiz came out with a model to assess risk and wall street started using it to package mortgages into securities because it gave them positive feedback that all their risky trades would work out:

http://www.wired.com/techbiz/it/magazine/17-03/wp_quant?currentPage=all

Of course, they a) Had no idea how it worked and b) Didn't heed calls that there might be limits to what the model could tell you and everything crashed.

The damage was foreseeable and, in fact, foreseen. In 1998, before Li had even invented his copula function, Paul Wilmott wrote that "the correlations between financial quantities are notoriously unstable." Wilmott, a quantitative-finance consultant and lecturer, argued that no theory should be built on such unpredictable parameters. And he wasn't alone. During the boom years, everybody could reel off reasons why the Gaussian copula function wasn't perfect. Li's approach made no allowance for unpredictability: It assumed that correlation was a constant rather than something mercurial. Investment banks would regularly phone Stanford's Duffie and ask him to come in and talk to them about exactly what Li's copula was. Every time, he would warn them that it was not suitable for use in risk management or valuation.

In hindsight, ignoring those warnings looks foolhardy. But at the time, it was easy. Banks dismissed them, partly because the managers empowered to apply the brakes didn't understand the arguments between various arms of the quant universe. Besides, they were making too much money to stop.

Fuck wall street.
 
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sactoking

Diamond Member
Sep 24, 2007
7,650
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The funny thing is that pretty much every model used by "Wall Street" first assumes a normal distribution.

It's kinda hard to accurately model something when the very first assumption you make about the environment is wrong.
 

bamacre

Lifer
Jul 1, 2004
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There isn't much capitalistic about Wall Street. I'll have to generally agree with Phokus. Fuck 'em.
 

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,994
779
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There isn't much capitalistic about Wall Street. I'll have to generally agree with Phokus. Fuck 'em.

But the solution is to be LESS capitalistic with Wall Street... see: Canada.

Wall Street is like a Gorilla loose on the street. It's a cool spectacle until it mauls one of your kids. If you want to enjoy observing the Gorilla, it should be behind a cage at the zoo.
 

bamacre

Lifer
Jul 1, 2004
21,029
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But the solution is to be LESS capitalistic with Wall Street... see: Canada.

Wall Street is like a Gorilla loose on the street. It's a cool spectacle until it mauls one of your kids. If you want to enjoy observing the Gorilla, it should be behind a cage at the zoo.

But it's government that let's them maul your kids. If it weren't for government, how many of these big banks would still be around?

Oh fuck it. Phokus, you and I aren't ever going to agree with these things. The best thing we could do is find where we do agree and get those ideas rolling. Paul/Kucinich in 2012. :p :p
 

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,994
779
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But it's government that let's them maul your kids. If it weren't for government, how many of these big banks would still be around?

Oh fuck it. Phokus, you and I aren't ever going to agree with these things. The best thing we could do is find where we do agree and get those ideas rolling. Paul/Kucinich in 2012. :p :p

LOL. Yeah, but we do agree that we have a corporatist government. We need an adversarial government to wallstreet, not one that cooperates with it, that's the difference.

I could get behind a Kucinich/Paul ticket :p

At least it'd be a credible threat to the military industrial complex.
 

bamacre

Lifer
Jul 1, 2004
21,029
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LOL. Yeah, but we do agree that we have a corporatist government. We need an adversarial government to wallstreet, not one that cooperates with it, that's the difference.

I could get behind a Kucinich/Paul ticket :p

At least it'd be a credible threat to the military industrial complex.

I think together they could do a lot more than that. Of course it'll never happen.
 

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,994
779
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I think together they could do a lot more than that. Of course it'll never happen.

Yeah probably right... drug war, Repealing the Patriot Act... hell, if Paul teamed up with the lone socialist in the senate, Bernie Sanders, you could might be able to audit the Fed.
 

bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
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lol what idiots. why the fuck do we continually prop these morons up? never should have bailed these failures out.
 

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,994
779
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lol what idiots. why the fuck do we continually prop these morons up? never should have bailed these failures out.

Leverage and greed. It's why we can get rid of unions easily but wall street gets help from government.
 

bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
13,312
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Leverage and greed. It's why we can get rid of unions easily but wall street gets help from government.

Getting rid of unions isn't easy, unless you think repealing the 1st amendment is easy. IMO it would be easier to get rid of Wall Street, well at least not democratically, they do control the White House still.
 

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,994
779
126
Getting rid of unions isn't easy, unless you think repealing the 1st amendment is easy. IMO it would be easier to get rid of Wall Street, well at least not democratically, they do control the White House still.

Of course it's easy, we've had this discussion over and over. Union participation rates have been decimated prior to the past few decades. Private union membership is all but gone, comparatively speaking.

Wall Street has leverage in that they have the ability to take down the world economy. They also have greed working on their side: Top SEC officials go on to work for wall street (or law firms connected to wall street), they've essentially captured our police. "Getting rid of wall street" is incredibly difficult.

Just look at wisconsin at the lengths they have to go to NOT destroy the union. I'm not even sure democrats fleeing to illinois is going to help. Wall Street just has to say, 'bail us out, or we'll fuck you and the economy so hard in the ass, you won't ever be re-elected again.

THAT is leverage.
 

Corn

Diamond Member
Nov 12, 1999
6,390
29
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Does the OP, or any of our other resident lefties, feel the same way regarding the climate change models used to inform us of the impending doom we face for making stuff, mowing our lawns, and driving?
 

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,994
779
126
Does the OP, or any of our other resident lefties, feel the same way regarding the climate change models used to inform us of the impending doom we face for making stuff, mowing our lawns, and driving?

One of the advantages of climate change is you can slowly see the changes in the environment (i.e. disappearing glaciers/ice caps/rising sea levels, etc.). I'm not an expert on the climate change subject and rarely, if ever, talk about it, but it is, without a doubt not the same, because you only know 'bad shit happened' when wall street does something because the "evidence" hits you like a ton of bricks in a very short period of time.

When the financial crisis broke in August 2007, David Viniar, chief financial officer of Goldman Sachs, famously commented that 25-standard deviation events had occurred on several successive days.
 

bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
13,312
1
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Of course it's easy, we've had this discussion over and over. Union participation rates have been decimated prior to the past few decades. Private union membership is all but gone, comparatively speaking.

Wall Street has leverage in that they have the ability to take down the world economy. They also have greed working on their side: Top SEC officials go on to work for wall street (or law firms connected to wall street), they've essentially captured our police. "Getting rid of wall street" is incredibly difficult.

Just look at wisconsin at the lengths they have to go to NOT destroy the union. I'm not even sure democrats fleeing to illinois is going to help. Wall Street just has to say, 'bail us out, or we'll fuck you and the economy so hard in the ass, you won't ever be re-elected again.

THAT is leverage.

What is causing union participation rates to decline? The fact they are declining really doesn't mean much without the cause. That's why I keep ignoring you when you bring it up. Who is causing this?

It isn't hard to join a Union, when I joined I just walked in sat in an hour class, paid my first due signed a couple piece of paper and boom I was good to go. They even offered to help me find work, and did, but I already had a contractor lined up to hire me so it worked out well.

The death of unions and the killing of unions are different things. My dad has been trying to leave his for a few years now because he doesn't like the way it is ran or their constant push to get him to hold certain political views, but he would still have to pay dues and not get any benefit from it. Sounds quite silly imo.


Also, I think getting rid of Wall Street would be easy. You say they have all this leverage, but that leverage is backed by our government whom is ran(supposedly) by us the American people. If we take that from them, then what? Oh noes the world economy goes to shambles because the way we handle a reserve currency gets changed. Oh fucking well. Either you want to shake the system up and "bring down" Wall Street or you're for the status quo, pretending like their "leverage" matters at all puts you in the second category.
 

bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
13,312
1
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Does the OP, or any of our other resident lefties, feel the same way regarding the climate change models used to inform us of the impending doom we face for making stuff, mowing our lawns, and driving?

I thought the same thing, but decided it was off topic so I didn't post the question.
 

Munky

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2005
9,372
0
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This looks similar to a chapter from the book "Econned" about the financial meltdown. Basically, a lot of pseudo-math and pseudo-science mixed with a huge dose of greed and fraud - that's what goes on at Wall St.