Domestic V.S. Import

[steppinthrax]

So I guess everyone here knows me for being kind of biased on this issue but I'm just curious what others have to say. I'm concentrating here more on the big 3 (Toyota, Honda, Nissan). As i understand they consistently score high on JD power. I also hear from others that Mercedes quality is very low in comparison to other imports.

 

[dud]

I voted import only becasue I own three (Mazda, Nissan and Honda) "import" vehicles.

I just bought a new Civic and was surprised to find that most of the car is, in fact, NOT Japanese.

The question I'll ask the forum is this: If a car is made of only 40% Japanese parts and it is built in Ohio, by Americans ... is is a Japanese car or an American one?

Based upon what I know about this car I think I just bought a domestic car.

 

[steppinthrax]

Originally posted by: dud
I voted import only becasue I own three (Mazda, Nissan and Honda) "import" vehicles.

I just bought a new Civic and was surprised to find that most of the car is, in fact, NOT Japanese.

The question I'll ask the forum is this: If a car is made of only 40% Japanese parts and it is built in Ohio, by Americans ... is is a Japanese car or an American one?

Based upon what I know about this car I think I just bought a domestic car.

I found this out myself as well. My wife's Nissan's VIN number starts with the digit (1). Indicating it was built in the US. My Camry starts with (J). Indicating it was built in Japan. I believe the quality is slightly lower. But, i'm sure the american parts may be things like body panels, interior parts etc..... The engine and other major (vital) componets are mainly japanese.

 

[PricklyPete]

This is such a horrible question as you are being way too broad.

This is a car by car question...not a domestic vs. import. The Infinite QX56 was worse than any other car in reliability in the last few Consumer Reports annual car reports. Does that make all Infiniti's unreliable? Toyota Corolla's haven't had a problem with them since '88...does that make all Toyota's rock solid (hell no...just ask a 2005 Avalon owner). GM has put out a sh!tload of crap for the last 20 years...does that make a Silverado unreliable? No. Ford Fusions have been doing way better than Toyota Camry's in the reliability ratings...does that make all Ford's better than Toyota's...hell no.

You need to research each car you're thinking about buying and figure out which vehicle/configuration is best for you. Stop trying to make it into some domestic vs. import thing. You're ignorant if that is all you use to base your purchase on.

 

[iamwiz82]

Originally posted by: dud
I voted import only becasue I own three (Mazda, Nissan and Honda) "import" vehicles.

I just bought a new Civic and was surprised to find that most of the car is, in fact, NOT Japanese.

The question I'll ask the forum is this: If a car is made of only 40% Japanese parts and it is built in Ohio, by Americans ... is is a Japanese car or an American one?

Based upon what I know about this car I think I just bought a domestic car.

The money is still going overseas.

That being said, I own two imports and a domestic.

 

[steppinthrax]

Originally posted by: PricklyPete
This is such a horrible question as you are being way too broad.

This is a car by car question...not a domestic vs. import. The Infinite QX56 was worse than any other car in reliability in the last few Consumer Reports annual car reports. Does that make all Infiniti's unreliable? Toyota Corolla's haven't had a problem with them since '88...does that make all Toyota's rock solid (hell no...just ask a 2005 Avalon owner). GM has put out a sh!tload of crap for the last 20 years...does that make a Silverado unreliable? No. Ford Fusions have been doing way better than Toyota Camry's in the reliability ratings...does that make all Ford's better than Toyota's...hell no.

You need to research each car you're thinking about buying and figure out which vehicle/configuration is best for you. Stop trying to make it into some domestic vs. import thing. You're ignorant if that is all you use to base your purchase on.

I'm sure foreign car manufactures have put out some horrible cars. But I'm asking an OVERALL question. Of course there are some bad imports as well as some good domestics.

 

[steppinthrax]

Originally posted by: iamwiz82

Originally posted by: dud
I voted import only becasue I own three (Mazda, Nissan and Honda) "import" vehicles.

I just bought a new Civic and was surprised to find that most of the car is, in fact, NOT Japanese.

The question I'll ask the forum is this: If a car is made of only 40% Japanese parts and it is built in Ohio, by Americans ... is is a Japanese car or an American one?

Based upon what I know about this car I think I just bought a domestic car.

The money is still going overseas.

That being said, I own two imports and a domestic.

How has been the reliability of your imports v.s. your one domestic.

 

[iamwiz82]

Originally posted by: steppinthrax

Originally posted by: iamwiz82

Originally posted by: dud
I voted import only becasue I own three (Mazda, Nissan and Honda) "import" vehicles.

I just bought a new Civic and was surprised to find that most of the car is, in fact, NOT Japanese.

The question I'll ask the forum is this: If a car is made of only 40% Japanese parts and it is built in Ohio, by Americans ... is is a Japanese car or an American one?

Based upon what I know about this car I think I just bought a domestic car.

The money is still going overseas.

That being said, I own two imports and a domestic.

How has been the reliability of your imports v.s. your one domestic.

No more and no less. I have not had an unreliable domestic, nor an unreliable import.

 

[Demon-Xanth]

Domestic vs. Import really isn't as cut and dry as it used to be. Cars are much more international.

Chevy Prism vs. Toyota Corrola?
Suzuki Grand Vitara vs. Chevy Tracker?
Pontiac Vibe vs. Toyota Matrix?
The Saturn Vue used a Honda V6
Chevy S10 vs. Isuzu Hombre

Who makes a car is much less clear, for a while Nissan's trucks were even DESIGNED in the US. When Damlier owned Chrysler, did that make my Dodge an import?

 

[Pliablemoose]

I actually find them to be about equal, honestly cars nowdays are worlds better than they ever have been, domestic, import, foreign content etc...

 

[Demon-Xanth]

Oh, and I've found that the people that have unreliable cars always seem to have unreliable cars. People that have reliable cars always seem to have reliable cars. So far, out of three cars that I've owned the one with the Mitsubishi logos was the least reliable. But I attribute that to the carburated setup vs. the EFIs of the others. The car ran great in the four months between having the carb rebuilt and an old guy in an Olds accellerating through it.

<-- well on his way to six digits in a Dodge that hasn't been on the back of anything since it hit the dealer's lot.

 

[steppinthrax]

I've been thinking it also has a lot to do with some economic and social issues. Ex: American cars are generally cheaper. Therefore persons who buy these cars are less inclined to maintain them. Therefore, they break down more often. Those who own them say they are crap. When in actuality they didn't do propert maintendance.

Owners who spend 40K on a Mercedes expect superior reliability. The cars might be very reliable but if something breaks on them you have to spend 600 on a water pump. I imagine your dealing with white colar workers here who know the value of a dollar. They also never worked on a car in their life. They then have a bad perception about mercedes when in actuality it was just maintendance.

But then I'm noticeing american companies are offering these huge warranties to compete with Imports. GM = 5 year 100K mile warranty, Chrysler = Lifetime powertrain (non-transferable). This I believe is to curb the perception.

When interviewing mechanics who work on imports/domestic they will commonly say imports seem to have less problems then domestics. Imporrts for example were way ahead of the time back in the 80s then Domestics were during that time.

 

[desy]

This doesn't apply anymore.
It did in the 90's where Honda and Toyota, not Nissan built good cars throught the whole line-up. Domestics chose to compete on features, well, features break down PW PL AIR etc all offer more points of failure. Its why Honda and Toyota are starting to level with Domestics cause their clients are not happy with stripped down Corolla's or Civics anymore.
I've had 3 imports and 6 domestics, the most troublesome was a Toyota by far.

I love that article that says import quality is largely blindered perception.
My Buddy and I were comparing his 89 Pathfinder to my 85 Bronco II He said I've done nothing to the Pathfinder, but then proceeded to list about 10 mechanical failures :roll:

Still, I think Japan has the edge in best engineering and that should show through in the long term.
Assembly and materials about even for all nowadays

 

[mattpegher]

I like both, as said above it depends on the model. I have an audi A6 and a Yukon XL. The yukon is a beast but it rides like one. I have driven through snowbanks 4 feet high and climbed 20 deg grades over packed snow. But after a few years the ride gets very truck like and bouncy. The Honda pilot rode nice but I'm not sure how it would stand up, it felt a bit weak in the frame. The Toyota sequoia felt firmer but smooth.

The next thing that screws up the comparisons is that the same vehicle specs for GMC and Toyota give a comparable MSRP but GMC always seems to be willing to give you about 5 grand at sale. So you go to sell the vehicle back on trade in and the toyota is 5k better but you got that earlier. So the 40k vehicles are compared it looks like the GMC is 5k lower value on resale.

That said I'd like to try the Seqouia.

 

[ViviTheMage]

parts made in Germany, assembled in Mexico....what a rip off! hahha

imports though

 

[Zenmervolt]

In my own experience, American cars have been easiest to keep running. Fewer electronic glitches, fewer strange habits developed over time, less expensive to repair if something does go wrong. Granted, this is based on some older, more proven American designs (V8 engines in RWD chassis, both cars and trucks). There's not too much that can go wrong with them.

The imports that I've had have all developed their own quirks. The Honda kept going and going and I never had anything truly unexpected happen, but it did need more frequent maintenance attention than my father's American trucks. The old Porsches I've had have been every bit as reliable as the Accord was, but they too all had some quirks or required more constant attention to maintenance, little design "flaws" like the plastic sunroof gears in the Porsches that always strip, or in the Volvo, the door stops that have a disturbing habit of coming loose from the car allowing the door to swing open un-checked and the dash-mounted switches that break their tabs and start to vibrate out of the dashboard.

Overall, I think that imports had the edge in the 1980's for econoboxes and boring family cars. Cars like the Mustang and Camaro, because of their unsophistication, were worlds more reliable than, say, a Mitsubishi 3000 GT or an RX-7, and imported trucks were just plain a joke back then.

Now, I think that things are fairly even, with domestics still having an edge in the true truck market.

ZV

 

[steppinthrax]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
In my own experience, American cars have been easiest to keep running. Fewer electronic glitches, fewer strange habits developed over time, less expensive to repair if something does go wrong. Granted, this is based on some older, more proven American designs (V8 engines in RWD chassis, both cars and trucks). There's not too much that can go wrong with them.

The imports that I've had have all developed their own quirks. The Honda kept going and going and I never had anything truly unexpected happen, but it did need more frequent maintenance attention than my father's American trucks. The old Porsches I've had have been every bit as reliable as the Accord was, but they too all had some quirks or required more constant attention to maintenance, little design "flaws" like the plastic sunroof gears in the Porsches that always strip, or in the Volvo, the door stops that have a disturbing habit of coming loose from the car allowing the door to swing open un-checked and the dash-mounted switches that break their tabs and start to vibrate out of the dashboard.

Overall, I think that imports had the edge in the 1980's for econoboxes and boring family cars. Cars like the Mustang and Camaro, because of their unsophistication, were worlds more reliable than, say, a Mitsubishi 3000 GT or an RX-7, and imported trucks were just plain a joke back then.

Now, I think that things are fairly even, with domestics still having an edge in the true truck market.

ZV

It seems like your comparing older style American vehicles with the newer Imports. Yes, I believe older domestics are probably more reliable then anything on the road today including imports. And yes, American Trucks are much better then import trucks. But, I don't believe Toyota/Nissan/Honda can rely on consumer perception for long. If people have the perception based on little actual observation (of failure) then Toyota should not be selling so many vehicles as they are doing now. Toyotas are expensive, more expensive then most American vehicles. Toyota is still doing well as of now. Many import companies are doing well to....

 

[vi edit]

I just think that Toyota and Honda in particular over any other brand(s) in their respective classes put out the best product they can for the money.

By this I mean that a vehicle was designed from the ground up and that compromises were not made late into the development or in production or in the parts supplied to make that price point.

I just feel that domestic nameplates are seriously hindered through legacy workforce costs, politics with vendors, and bloated corporate BS and they put out an inferior product. This is shown in build quality, reliability of parts, and overall "thought" that was put into the finished product.

There's definitely a shift being made though. The last 2-3 production years of vehicles from Ford and GM have resulted some brilliant ideas and giant leaps in quality of parts and vehicle designs. On the flip side, Toyota is starting to feel the pain of being as huge of a producer as it is. When you get that big, it's harder to micromanage things and keep the gears well oiled.

 

[alphatarget1]

American cars are getting better, but there's still a lot of room for improvement.

Case in point: I've always liked the styling of Pontiacs. I rented a G6 this weekend and liked how it rides, quiet, and the engine was smooth (although could use a few more ponies since it's a V6)

But the interior is still... Not very great. People spend 100% of the time inside the car while driving. The interior quality is still very much sub-par compared to other imports.

I'd take an American car over a European one for reliability.

 

[iamwiz82]

Originally posted by: alphatarget1
American cars are getting better, but there's still a lot of room for improvement.

Case in point: I've always liked the styling of Pontiacs. I rented a G6 this weekend and liked how it rides, quiet, and the engine was smooth (although could use a few more ponies since it's a V6)

But the interior is still... Not very great. People spend 100% of the time inside the car while driving. The interior quality is still very much sub-par compared to other imports.

I'd take an American car over a European one for reliability.

I'd rather have that hard American plastic. My imports both show scratches in their super soft plastic. Look at it the wrong way and it leaves a mark.

 

[Strk]

It's just not really that simple though. Sure, I can say Honda and Toyota are awesome. Subaru is also quite nice, but Nissan really isn't that good -- or at least wasn't until recently. At which point, they're now owned by Renault. European companies, as a whole, more or less suck. As for domestics, well, it depends. Chryslers are pretty terrible and I would never buy one. But Ford and GM, despite their stinginess on certain things, are pretty decent.

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

I've always been a believer that an American car may run like crap, but it will run like crap forever. Once a import starts running like crap it has about 6 months until it is un-useable.

 

[Demon-Xanth]

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski
I've always been a believer that an American car may run like crap, but it will run like crap forever. Once a import starts running like crap it has about 6 months until it is un-useable.

True, my brother in law threw a junkyard 350 in an Elky, it started running like crap. He eventually got a new motor and tried to kill the old one. The old one wouldn't run good enough to kill itself.

 

[exdeath]

Bottom line: whichever one suites my needs and wants better.

I will point this out however, when it comes to performance tunning: there is no replacement for displacement.

Seriously, even with boost, you can boost an engine with twice the displacement at the same boost level and get twice the power, everything else held constant. Doesn't even have to be V8 vs I4, it can be a 4.0L I4 or 2 cyl if thats what you want; all that matters in making power is fuel flow rate, and moving fuel requires that you move air. Real import tuners even preach this, and for some reason the Civic ricers still don't get it and think there is something magical about a 1.6L Honda engine that makes it exotic technology or something.

The thing I like about large displacement domestic engines is that I can make big power with less boost which means no detonation which means pump gas. Pump gas means I can drive it every day with the power I brag with no excuses about running a weaker street tune, meth injection being empty, etc. Just ask anyone with a 700+ RWHP Supra "street car" how much boost they run on the street and what power they make with 91 pump gas instead of 117 octane leaded race gas, they hate that! Begrudgingly they will admit that they have never run it on anything less than leaded C16 race gas... a street car in my book is one that can fill up at any pump, not just at the race track.

I love MKIV Supras as much as I do 03 Cobras, but they are just the perfect example of people comparing high boost imports to domestics while forgetting that the import is running 117 octane race gas while the domestic with that "huge inefficient gas guzzling heavy iron push rod dinosaur big block V8" is making the same power with 87 octane. Apples and oranges. What would a blown forged and balanced port injected EFI 454 run if it was tuned for only 117 octane? What, 2000+ HP? Or you can tune it naturally aspirated on a carb on 87 and run 600 HP all day every day without breaking a sweat for one and a half paychecks.

I'm shooting for the 850-900 RWHP on nothing more than pump gas with my next 03 Cobra build: 324 4v stroker with twin 67mm turbo. Definitely going turbo, I've made up my mind now that some of the turbo cars are maturing and have been tuned to run 9s on the stock block, transmission, and IRS, on pump gas. Bigger dyno numbers from the turbos aren't as important as track times or being able to run those times on pump gas.

That said I'm also looking forward to getting involved with a diehard import friend who will be doing a non riced '92 Civic hatchback. 1900 lbs with 300+ HP = 11s or faster car for under $10,000 in a daily beater.

 

[AdamK47]

What import can I get that compares both in performance and cost to the following?...

1. Camaro
2. GTO
3. Corvette