Domain connected but no internet, and vice versa

[imported_padge]

Hey guys, I'm trying to connect my pc here to my Win2k Server Domain, and I'm running into a couple problems:

1. I CAN connect to the domain, but when I'm connected, the IP address is different from the other computers on the network in that the third set of numbers is different, and not just the last set. (142.165.244.100 on the other pc, and something line 142.165.245.102 on this PC (notice the 244 and 245)).

2. When I connect to the Domain, the internet doesn't work.

3. When I'm not connected to the domain, the internet works (ie. when using a workgroup).

4. I tried setting this PC up with static IP addressing, and that was the only time I could access the Domain and network (but not the internet)... The one other PC on the network (besides the server) is connected to the domain with Dynamic IP addressing (ie. "Obtain IP address automatically").


This is a new PC i'm trying to connect to the network in place of another computer, and on that other computer the network and internet all work correctly, and I basically copied the settings of that computer in hopes of getting this one working, but for some reason it just isn't cooperating. Any help would be appreciated, thanks guys!

Oh and let me know any information I missed that you might need.

 

[nweaver]

what is serving DHCP
what is the scope of the DHCP addresses
what is the DNS server
Is DNS resolving the domain correctly
is DNS forwarding to root servers for unknown entries
what is your subnet mask

 

[imported_padge]

I just checked and the PC that I'm trying to replace has it's IP address set up correctly. ie. it doesn't have the problem I outline above in problem (1).

Also, I think the internet is only working on this PC right now because I have the DNS servers specified.

 

[imported_padge]

The win2k server is using Active Directory. I didn't originally set this network up, do I'm not quite sure how to check the scope, DNS server, or the other things your requesting. Where do I check these things?

The subnet mask is 255.255.255.128 on the working machines, and 255.255.255.193 on the machine I'm on right now that I'm having problems with.

 

[imported_padge]

I went into "configure your server" on the win2k machine, and i went to DHCP and I don't even think it's set up. Also when I went to Manage DNS, it said it couldn't find the DNS server. So both of those don't seem to be configured? What would be controlling the scope of the IP's then?




I'm kind of a newb with DHCP, DNS, and Domains... so you guys have to bear with me..

 

[imported_padge]

The only Windows Networking Service installed on the Win2k Server machine is DNS. DCHP isn't even installed. Do I need to install it and then set the scopes?

Can someone give me a quick once over on how the network is even assigning the computers the correct IP addresses in the first place? I checked the local area connection on the server, and it's IP settings for TCP/IP are all set to automatic.

 

[stash]

Wow.

DNS has to be installed on a domain controller or AD will never work. The DC should point to itself as primary DNS and another DC as secondary. If you don't have another DC, the secondary should be blank. Do not, under any circumstances, put an external DNS server into the config for any machine that is part of the domain. This means DCs, member servers and clients.

Your client should point to the DC for DNS and nothing else. Do not put your ISP's DNS servers on any machine in the domain. Where they do need to (optionally) go is in the DNS forwarders tab on the DNS server. I say optional because you could also just use the root hints built into the DNS server.

But you really need to stop what you are doing and go find some good reading material. It sounds highly likely that your domain is not correctly set up, so you need to learn how to set it up first before you go further.

 

[nweaver]

Originally posted by: stash
Wow.

But you really need to stop what you are doing and go find some good reading material. It sounds highly likely that your domain is not correctly set up, so you need to learn how to set it up first before you go further.

This is very much true, and why I hit you up for those answers. If you don't understand why you need DNS, know what is serving DHCP, or those types of things, then it's time to either step back and document/learn before touching anything else, or it's time to call in a pro. A decent MS guy isn't too expensive, and you get the added comfort that it's being done correctly (if you get a good guy, ask for references and CALL THEM!!).

 

[imported_padge]

We did have a guy come in and set it all up, I called him and he didn't know what was going on but I didn't have much time to talk to him.

You would think that if I set the current PC up according to the settings on the other PC that it would work but its getting a dynamic IP that isn't allowing it to reach the domain unless I set the IP as a static IP. I changed all the IP and DNS information to match the other computer except I changed the IP so it wouldnt conflict, and it connected to the domain and also the internet. However the internet was really slow.

I thought the server was set up correctly, but apparently it isn't. I'll call the guy that set it up tommorow and see what he says.

I didn't know how to check the DNS or DHCP because none of that stuff seems to be installed on the server, I don't know what gives and I was puzzled as hell to how it was all even working with just the computer accounts for the clients listed in the Active Directory Users. I know my way around computers quite well actually, I'm just not up to speed on network domains or win2k server...now I know where I need to learn up on...

So from the way it sounds the server has to be reconfigured completely then or what?

 

[imported_padge]

Could the server be assigning IP's via manual allocation (MAC allocation) and that would be the reason why it doesn't work when I plug the ethernet cable from one PC to the other and try to connect?

 

[RebateMonger]

Originally posted by: padge
So from the way it sounds the server has to be reconfigured completely then or what?

It's difficult to answer that question without someone on your end who's familiar with the proper setup of Windows Servers. I see misconfigured Servers all the time.

If you suspect misconfiguration and want to quickly resolve this question, then find an MS-certified IT consultant and pay him/her to do a survey of your network and report what they find. A quick way to find local, MS-certified people is to go to Microsoft's Small Business Center and enter your Zip Code in the box at the upper right part of the screen.

 

[imported_padge]

Our internet connection is set up through dynamic IP, not static, so I don't see the point of DHCP. I also don't understand the significance of DNS because why do we need to assign names to the computer addresses? I don't care about that. We want to be able to connect to the domain to save files, share printers, etc.

The internet comes into a hub (Linksys NH1005), which has a cable running to the server, and the two workstations.

Is it a problem with the hub do you think? Because the server works just fine except it doesn't want to cooperate with this new system.

Can someone try to help me out rather than suggesting I call in a pro?

 

[stash]

Can someone try to help me out rather than suggesting I call in a pro?

This forum is not the place to help someone who doesn't understand the significance of DNS in an AD domain. I'm not trying to put you down or anything, but you either need to sit down and learn how AD works or bring in someone to help you. An online forum is simply not a good method for this issue.

 

[nweaver]

indeed, it's not a "you don't need to know, bring in someone to fix it because we are 'l33t" type thing, it's a very complex, easy to do wrong and cause problems (as is shown here by your problems). Much of this could be fixed long term by someone who understands the technology and concepts. It is in a companies best interests to find someone who knows what they are doing, and consult with them (unless they happen to need full time IT).

 

[imported_padge]

I understand what you guys are saying, I just please ask if you would just think about this and at least TELL me what I have to do, so I can tell our network guy what's going on.

Apparently when the network was first set up, the server was assigning the two workstations their IP's and everything. The internet was on dial-up at that time. Now I believe the network is set up on satellite internet. For some reason the computers couldn't connect to the domain and go online at the same time, so they changed it so the server wasnt assigning the IPs anymore. Now the server and the two workstations are all being dynamically assigned IP addresses from the ISP somehow. The guy that set up the network apparently knows his stuff, I'm quite sure he's certified in this area, but he doesn't quite know whats wrong with it but I've been talking to him over the phone about it so he can't get in here and dig with it.

Now, all I want to do is get this new PC to be assigned the correct IP address dynamically and it isn't working that way. WHY?!? That's all I want to know just shoot me with all the technical ****** you can and i'll get our guy to decode anything I don't understand how to do but I most likely will.


Here is a breakdown:
- internet via satellite modem (i think, i come and go and just help with computer stuff when I'm here and I'm sure they had to get this because it's on a farm).
- server, workstation 1 and workstation 2 all assigned dynamic IP's.
- both workstations want to connect to server by domain access
- both workstations CAN access server by domain access and access internet
----PROBLEM - new workstation can't access domain because dynamically assigned IP is out of range (connected with same cable from workstation 2). new workstation connects to server when assigned a static IP however it can't access the internet when connected to the domain.
- all computers are connected to a linksys nh1005 hub, where the internet joins them


This can't be that hard can it?
If this mess can't be fixed, what do I need to get set up in order for it to do so? What is the ideal configuration for this setup?

Give me something guys, come on.

 

[stash]

Here's a quick summary.

* Turn off DHCP on the modem (or whatever is currently doing it) and use the DC for DHCP.
* Configure the DHCP scope to set the primary DNS server to the DC's IP address (which should be static, BTW). Again, if that's the only DC you have, do not set anything for secondary DNS.
* Configure the DNS server on the DC to use the ISP's DNS servers as forwarders.

That's pretty much it. I don't know anything about your network guy that set this up, but if he set it up so the clients are receiving IP info from the ISPs, he set it up wrong, at least for AD. Ideally, you should be doing NAT, and using the DC to serve up internal-only IPs and the correct DNS server.

 

[RebateMonger]

There's a "standard" way of installing a single Windows Server in Active Directory Mode as a Domain Controller:

* Turn on DHCP in the Windows Server and turn off DHCP on ALL other devices.
* Turn on DNS in the Windows Server. Windows DNS will supply ALL DNS information for ALL computers in the network. If Windows DNS doesn't have the required information, then it will look to the Internet for additional name resolution.
* Turn on WINS in the Windows Server.
* Point all clients to obtain their IP address, DNS service, and WINS service automatically from the Domain Controller.

If you do it this way, it's REALLY tough to screw things up. Any PC that's plugged into the network should just "work". The trick is in knowing HOW to configure those various services to work correctly. THAT requires training and experience in Windows Servers.

Edit: stash posted at the same time as I did. Thank God we had the (basically) the same answers.

Originally posted by: padge
I understand what you guys are saying, I just please ask if you would just think about this and at least TELL me what I have to do, so I can tell our network guy what's going on.
.....
The guy that set up the network apparently knows his stuff, I'm quite sure he's certified in this area, but he doesn't quite know whats wrong with it but I've been talking to him over the phone about it so he can't get in here and dig with it.
.....
This can't be that hard can it?

Your nettwork guy set up the network. Nobody knows better than he/she how it's set up. If he/she is a Windows Server expert and set up the network, then there's nobody better qualified to diagnose the problem. Why would you expect some strangers in a Help Forum to do better?

 

[stash]

Edit: stash posted at the same time as I did. Thank God we had the (basically) the same answers.

lol yeah, glad we're all on the same wavelength here.

 

[imported_padge]

Originally posted by: RebateMonger
Your nettwork guy set up the network. Nobody knows better than he/she how it's set up. If he/she is a Windows Server expert and set up the network, then there's nobody better qualified to diagnose the problem. Why would you expect some strangers in a Help Forum to do better?

Thank you very much you guys, I appreciate it. Our network guy didn't quite know what was going on with the situation and he wasn't here to help me. I don't even think he's doing network stuff anymore. I'm trying to learn this stuff as I go along and now that you guys have layed out how it's supposed to be done that helps a lot. I understand the situation better so I can talk to the network guy about it and we'll figure something out.

Right now each client is receiving IP info from the ISP, so it is set up wrong. The network guy mentioned that the internet didn't work when they had it set up like this... I assume that might have been because DNS server on the DC might not have been using the ISP's DNS servers as forwarders?

Anyway, I'll muck around with it here and let you guys know what happens. Right now I got the new workstation online and connected to the domain (defined a static IP and used the same gateway/subnet/dns/dhcp as the other workstations)... however this setup isn't very secure so I'll look into setting it up as you guys described. Thanks again.

 

[RebateMonger]

Originally posted by: padge
Right now each client is receiving IP info from the ISP, so it is set up wrong. The network guy mentioned that the internet didn't work when they had it set up like this....

He didn't know what he was doing. Find somebody who understands Windows Servers.