Dollar Devaluation To Fix The Great Recession

Ozoned

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2004
5,578
0
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Dollar Devaluation To Fix The Great Recession
We are heading there anyway, but it seems to be a slow and painfull process. This article suggests that world currencies should be devalued overnight? How would one go about doing this? What are the negatives?
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A quick dollar devaluation would work wonders for submerged borrowers. Don't kid yourself: It could happen.
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What began as government social tinkering--with implied threats to banks and mortgage companies to extend home loans to even the most marginal of borrowers--led to a greed-blinded mortgage banking business and the meltdown we are experiencing today. Now we are asked by the same congressional leadership to go along with taxpayer-funded bailouts of the very banksters who, while making millions, created the mess.
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Despite the trillions of dollars already expended recapitalizing banks, there is very little, if any, progress to show. Will a few trillion more do the trick? That seems to be the consensus among Congress and the banks. "They are simply too big to let fail," or are they really just too big to save? We can go back to "Plan A" and buy the toxic assets. If so, at what price? What if a few trillion does not remove enough toxic waste from the system or doesn't get credit flowing again and the economy bustling?
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Some argue that it is time to help Main Street, not Wall Street. So, we should "forgive" some of the mortgages for those who are 90 days or more behind on their payments. Have you quit paying yet?
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If we are to save bankers, shouldn't we at least distinguish between those who possess the intelligence to renegotiate their loans to workable terms? If we are to save homeowners, should not we first define the term "homeowner?" Perhaps it is not only someone who agreed to and signed a mortgage and is living in a house. Just perhaps, it should also include the stipulation that this individual paid some amount of a down payment: 20%, 5%, a dollar. I can tell you who is not a homeowner. It is not someone who paid zero down and ridiculously low payments for two years; that, my friend, is a renter.
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The problem with all these ideas is the money is only directed at those who created or benefited from the problems. Why not attack the situation in a manner that will benefit most everyone, an approach that has been successful before and, when compared to the current course, has little downside?
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Here it is. Stand back. World currencies should be devalued overnight.
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It can be done on a country-by-country basis, but a coordinated devaluation would work best. A devaluation of 30% would raise the dollar value of all assets by 43%. A $200,000 home with a $230,000 mortgage would become a $286,000 home with the same mortgage. Presto! The homeowner who was $30,000 upside-down now has $56,000 equity and a good reason to make his payments. Both the homeowner and the bank are immediately better-off.
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It would even benefit those who purchased their homes responsibly, as the value of their homes would rise by the same 43%. The current course of throwing trillions of dollars at the culprits is without any benefit to those who acted responsibly.
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Admittedly, this is not a solution without the price of inflation, but the inflation would be short-lived. The current course will ultimately cause massive inflation that cannot be accurately estimated, and it may not even solve the problem.
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Currency devaluation proved effective in ending the Great Depression. In 1930, Australia was the first to leave the gold standard, immediately devaluing the aussie by more than 40%, and the economy quickly recovered. New Zealand and Japan followed suit in 1931, each with the same result. By 1933, at least nine major economies had enacted a devaluation of their currency by removing it from the gold standard, all of whom emerged from depression.
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In 1933, through a series of gold-related acts, culminating in the Gold Reserve Act of 1934, America realized a dollar devaluation of 41% when the price of gold was adjusted from $20.67 per ounce of gold to $35 per ounce. America, like the others before, had its economy bottom and recover as a result. Of the larger economies, only the French and Italians continued to adhere to the gold standard, and their economies remained depressed until finally, in 1936, they allowed their currencies to devalue, and their economies then recovered.
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I see no reason to believe we would have any different result today. Only debt would remain the same. All other assets would immediately be worth more (in nominal terms), whether it be a home, a stock, an ounce of gold or a used car. Bank balance sheets would immediately improve, as many loans would be moved from non-performing to performing status. Banks would be paid with devalued dollars, but they made millions creating the mess. The current use of government stimulus through the creation of dollars will certainly lead to a similar or worse devaluation, so this is likely a net gain for the banks too.
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Businesses would instantly become more profitable, and workers' pay would increase, allowing each to pay their debts more easily, even while sending more tax dollars to Washington, without raising tax rates. As assets are sold, the capital gains would send even more taxes to Washington. States and locales would receive more revenue via sales and property tax, improving the fiscal condition of school districts and local governments. The national debt would effectively be reduced by the same 25%, giving future generations a chance. Combine the move with a congressional pledge to only raise the budget by half the devaluation, and we could be on track for a balanced budget and paying down the debt.
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As the old Saturday Night Live skit said, "Think of inflation as your friend. Wouldn't you like to wear $1,000 suits and smoke $100 cigars?" I know I would.

 

Slew Foot

Lifer
Sep 22, 2005
12,379
96
86
Originally posted by: Ozoned

As the old Saturday Night Live skit said, "Think of inflation as your friend. Wouldn't you like to wear $1,000 suits and smoke $100 cigars?" I know I would.

And eat $600 loaves of bread? Whup deee doo.

If you know Bernake's history, this was his exact plan, to deflate the dollar to pay off debts.

 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
9
81
Quiet. Our corporate/government overlords know what they're doing. We need to just shut up and let them fix everything. They're only trying to protect us...
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
I have to go for a quick trip in my roflcopter on this count:

Both the homeowner and the bank are immediately better-off.

Fail. Sure, the bank is now less likely to have that property foreclosed, but at the expense of all of his other loans. He's just watched all of his debts--which are actually his assets and revenue streams--precipitously fall in value. A devalued dollar helps indebted people and screws those who hold the debt. Since in theory banks are the ones supposed to be holding the debt they will watch their assets vanish in value. Where before 5000 mortgages were keeping him going, now he needs 6500. He cannot close 1500 new mortgages by next week, so some people will not be coming into work on Monday. Or Tuesday, or in fact ever again.

Furthermore, all people on any kind of a fixed income or other revenue source that is not pegged to inflation will be screwed as well.
 

brxndxn

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2001
8,475
0
76
Originally posted by: Skoorb
I have to go for a quick trip in my roflcopter on this count:

Both the homeowner and the bank are immediately better-off.

Fail. Sure, the bank is now less likely to have that property foreclosed, but at the expense of all of his other loans. He's just watched all of his debts--which are actually his assets and revenue streams--precipitously fall in value. A devalued dollar helps indebted people and screws those who hold the debt. Since in theory banks are the ones supposed to be holding the debt they will watch their assets vanish in value. Where before 5000 mortgages were keeping him going, now he needs 6500. He cannot close 1500 new mortgages by next week, so some people will not be coming into work on Monday. Or Tuesday, or in fact ever again.

Furthermore, all people on any kind of a fixed income or other revenue source that is not pegged to inflation will be screwed as well.

Actually, your arguments are both wrong..

The Fed doesn't allow banks to fail. Instead, when the banks need more mortgages, they start a new bubble.. they hire more people.. and next thing you know, everyone and their mother is a real estate broker, agent, appraiser.. Yay.. healthy bubble again.

Second, the people on fixed incomes do nothing for our economy anyway.. The only people that really keep our economy going around are the ones that spend to the limits who are in the middle of the careers.. who are constantly willing to work harder and harder to stay afloat. Hamster wheel..

Though.. this is why I'm against the Fed in the first place. Without the Fed, you'd have a decentralized monetary policy that cannot 'force people' to wildly throw their money around.
 

First

Lifer
Jun 3, 2002
10,518
271
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Originally posted by: brxndxn

Though.. this is why I'm against the Fed in the first place. Without the Fed, you'd have a decentralized monetary policy that cannot 'force people' to wildly throw their money around.

You'd have banking panics that dwarf our current banking crisis, like the runs on banks in 1907 before the Fed ever existed. You'd have a global meltdown that makes the current recession seem tame by comparison. That's why no one intelligent takes the claims of the Fed being at fault seriously, because every major power in the world has a central bank to mitigate crises (like the mortgage meltdown) that was out of their control to begin with. Without the Fed you'd have investors far less willing to invest capital, you'd get an economy based entirely on consumers saving/hording cash, and you'd get stagnation that would make 90's Japan seem prosperous. No one would have confidence that an increasingly complex economy could be saved from itself without some sort of countermeasure (be it the Fed in the U.S. or the ECB in Europe) to react to dire circumstances. To claim a decentralized monetary policy is the superior alternative is to engage in the willing suspension of disbelief, because it has never worked as well as the Fed has since 1913. It assumes people won't go through the same irrational exuberance and pessimism they did in the earlier and later parts of this decade. The human condition dictates the volatile business, and it exists in either scenario (centralized or not), and that's just cold hard reality.
 

miketheidiot

Lifer
Sep 3, 2004
11,060
1
0
inflation is not a threat right now. Also i've never really found forbes to be a great place for insightful commentary either, but whatever.

Is it even possible for the us, with a floating exchange rate, to undergo a forced devaluation.
 

First

Lifer
Jun 3, 2002
10,518
271
136
Originally posted by: miketheidiot
inflation is not a threat right now. Also i've never really found forbes to be a great place for insightful commentary either, but whatever.

Is it even possible for the us, with a floating exchange rate, to undergo a forced devaluation.

Not for long once our exports start increasing in rapid succession and foreign arbitragers start complaining again. Exporting was what was keeping us afloat in 07 and part of 08 when the dollar was relatively weak.
 
Sep 12, 2004
16,852
59
86
Here it is. Stand back. World currencies should be devalued overnight.
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It can be done on a country-by-country basis, but a coordinated devaluation would work best.
Huh?

How does the US magically devalue foreign currencies overnight?
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
72,228
32,639
136
I know this is difficult for folks to believe but there are people out there who have savings. They would be totally hosed by a devaluation. Devaluing the currency would reward the grasshoppers and punish the ants.
 

Schadenfroh

Elite Member
Mar 8, 2003
38,416
4
0
Originally posted by: ironwing
Devaluing the currency would reward the grasshoppers and punish the ants.

(Un)Fortunately, there are more grasshoppers than ants it seems.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,670
6,246
126
Wow, talk about Smoke and Mirrors! That doesn't solve anything, except give a Big looking number. That $280k is still worth what it was when it was printed $230k. The "solution" is a mirage.

I almost quit reading that tripe after the third sentence. It Failed early, but went on to Fail even more.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: Evan

Not for long once our exports start increasing in rapid succession and foreign arbitragers start complaining again.

Exporting was what was keeping us afloat in 07 and part of 08 when the dollar was relatively weak.

Exporting what, Jobs?
 

Slew Foot

Lifer
Sep 22, 2005
12,379
96
86
Originally posted by: ironwing
I know this is difficult for folks to believe but there are people out there who have savings. They would be totally hosed by a devaluation. Devaluing the currency would reward the grasshoppers and punish the ants.

You got it the other way around, savers would be hosed by inflation as their savings buy less stuff, they like deflation because as stuff gets cheaper, they can buy more of it.

And yeah, there are a lot more idiots/grasshoppers out there than ants and unfortunately their vote counts the same as yours.
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
72,228
32,639
136
Originally posted by: Slew Foot
Originally posted by: ironwing
I know this is difficult for folks to believe but there are people out there who have savings. They would be totally hosed by a devaluation. Devaluing the currency would reward the grasshoppers and punish the ants.

You got it the other way around, savers would be hosed by inflation as their savings buy less stuff, they like deflation because as stuff gets cheaper, they can buy more of it.

And yeah, there are a lot more idiots/grasshoppers out there than ants and unfortunately their vote counts the same as yours.

Devaluation = inflation. Same thing.
 

PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
13,650
201
101
Originally posted by: Capitalizt
Buy gold.
Buy silver.
Sleep tight.


You = delusional.

For one thing, historical performance of gold or silver versus other investment options is dismal over the long run.

Another problem is that neither gold nor silver can hold their value if the rest of the economy tanks. Those metals don't have any particular "real" use and value outside of what investors are willing to pay for it. If investors have less money, the price of gold and silver will go down as well.

Anyhow, OP, that aricle fails on so many levels it's hard to figure out where to start. The very core presmise of it makes no sense. Devalue all currencies..... relative to what??
 

ebaycj

Diamond Member
Mar 9, 2002
5,418
0
0
Originally posted by: ironwing
I know this is difficult for folks to believe but there are people out there who have savings. They would be totally hosed by a devaluation. Devaluing the currency would reward the grasshoppers and punish the ants.

The easy way around that is to invest your savings in a commodity that will not inflate at the same rate as the dollar. That way when the dollar is devalued, the dollar valuation of your investment will soar, and you will be able to sell your commodity back once the devaluation subsides.



Example:

You have $500 worth of savings. You invest it in platinum. The dollar devalues to 1/10th of its prior value, giving $500 the purchasing power that $50 used to have. Platinum stays relatively steady in actual value, so it's price in dollars soars and is now 10x what it used to be. So your old-$500 worth of Platinum is now worth new-$5000. Once the devaluation levels off, you sell your platinum for dollars, and your purchasing power is relatively the same as it was before.


 

Cutterhead

Senior member
Jul 13, 2005
527
0
76
Originally posted by: ebaycj
Originally posted by: ironwing
I know this is difficult for folks to believe but there are people out there who have savings. They would be totally hosed by a devaluation. Devaluing the currency would reward the grasshoppers and punish the ants.

The easy way around that is to invest your savings in a commodity that will not inflate at the same rate as the dollar. That way when the dollar is devalued, the dollar valuation of your investment will soar, and you will be able to sell your commodity back once the devaluation subsides.



Example:

You have $500 worth of savings. You invest it in platinum. The dollar devalues to 1/10th of its prior value, giving $500 the purchasing power that $50 used to have. Platinum stays relatively steady in actual value, so it's price in dollars soars and is now 10x what it used to be. So your old-$500 worth of Platinum is now worth new-$5000. Once the devaluation levels off, you sell your platinum for dollars, and your purchasing power is relatively the same as it was before.

You are making a rather large assumption that there is an easily identifiable class of investments that are virtually guaranteed to hold value in a scenario where currency is greatly devalued. Precious metals may be perceived to hold more value in these situations but they are still subjectively valuated like any other commodity and could just as easily tank along with the dollar.

The point is that there is no such safe investment option that would guarantee your existing savings hold their current value. Even if such an investment did exist, you would still need to speculate as to the timing and impact of a massive devaluation like this. I agree with ironwing that this devaluation proposal, just like the bailouts and other "fixes" being discussed at such length today, all come at the greatest expense to those who participated least in causing the problem.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
I think stocks would sore aggressively with inflation, right? So you'd maintain some value there, though the companies may get hurt, which will suffer their stocks.

Many are truly worried about deflation, though. If that kicked in, you don't want stocks and you don't want platinum, you want a savings account with real money in it.
 

theeedude

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
Dollar devaluation is not only the way to go, but it's inevitable.
As someone mostly invested in Gold and Commodity stocks, I approve this message :)
 

brxndxn

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2001
8,475
0
76
Originally posted by: Evan
Originally posted by: brxndxn

Though.. this is why I'm against the Fed in the first place. Without the Fed, you'd have a decentralized monetary policy that cannot 'force people' to wildly throw their money around.

You'd have banking panics that dwarf our current banking crisis, like the runs on banks in 1907 before the Fed ever existed. You'd have a global meltdown that makes the current recession seem tame by comparison. That's why no one intelligent takes the claims of the Fed being at fault seriously, because every major power in the world has a central bank to mitigate crises (like the mortgage meltdown) that was out of their control to begin with. Without the Fed you'd have investors far less willing to invest capital, you'd get an economy based entirely on consumers saving/hording cash, and you'd get stagnation that would make 90's Japan seem prosperous. No one would have confidence that an increasingly complex economy could be saved from itself without some sort of countermeasure (be it the Fed in the U.S. or the ECB in Europe) to react to dire circumstances. To claim a decentralized monetary policy is the superior alternative is to engage in the willing suspension of disbelief, because it has never worked as well as the Fed has since 1913. It assumes people won't go through the same irrational exuberance and pessimism they did in the earlier and later parts of this decade. The human condition dictates the volatile business, and it exists in either scenario (centralized or not), and that's just cold hard reality.

Please explain why you would have banking panics that dwarf our current banking crisis. In 1907, there was a run on banks. In 1913 you had the creation of the Federal Reserve. In 1929, you had the start of the Great Depression - arguably the worst recession the US has seen.

Basically the first half of what you say is merely fear-based argument. You say we will have a global meltdown but do not explain why. Then, you say that 'no one intelligent takes the claims of the Fed being at fault seriously.' Well, I would say there's a lot of intelligent against the Fed existing. Second, just recently, we had the Senate grilling Greenspan for his roll in the financial crisis.

My argument against the Fed is that they can essentially control wealth. They can lower it. They can increase it. They can control where the money flows. It was not the desire of the Founding Fathers to create an economy that is constantly growing; it was the desire of the Founding Fathers to allow for an economy that could NOT be easily manipulated by the government. In a free market economy with a decentralized currency, the economy will always behave like a market.
 

GTaudiophile

Lifer
Oct 24, 2000
29,767
33
81
I was in Paris three weeks when the Euro was at 1.25 against the USD. It's now sitting at 1.43.

WTF!