Dolby Digital Decoding on Sound Card

RedShirt

Golden Member
Aug 9, 2000
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All this talk about Dolby Digital and all these 5.1 speakers are making me confused.

I'm curious HOW exactly you can have Dolby Digital. I know you can have a external decoder, but that is expensive. Which soundcards (if any) actually do the decoding on the card?

Is there any other way to get Dolby Digital besides on the card or by an external decoder? Someone was saying something about a DVD decoder card doing it. Any help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks
 

HalfHuman

Banned
Jan 10, 2001
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Dolby digital itself is nothing more than an audio compression algorithm. It compresses 6 channels into one digital stream that is decompressed by a decoder. To a computer playing a dvd, the audio stream is played back with a software decompresser built into the dvd software. It is treated pretty much the same way as an mp3, except sometimes it is downmixed to 2, or 4 channels depending on the speaker setup.

The external decoders are the best, but they require a sound card that can pass the ac3 (dolby digital) stream on to the decoder. The sb live 5.1 cards can as well as The Turtle Beach Santa Cruiz and the Herculese Game Theater XP. I am not so sure about the Phillips acoustic edge. I believe it can as well. Of those 4 cards, the only one to decode the ac3 stream onboard is the soundblaster live 5.1. This feature really only works in windows 98 or ME. In windows 2000 the audio and video go out of sync. I have heard it works fine with an external decoder though. I can't give you any information on any other cards because all I have is the live and windows 2000. I will be getting the hercules soon.

In my opinion internal decoder cards are pretty much useless if you have a fast computer. Most computers I have run across don't have any problems decoding dvds at all. The picture and audio quality of software dvd decoders (windvd and powerdvd) is good enough for most people.

 

Sugadaddy

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May 12, 2000
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Most card with a digital output will be able to pass the AC3 stream to an external decoder. If you're decoding through software and want true 5.1 sound, you'll need a Live 5.1 or an Hercules Gametheater XP because both have 5.1 analog outputs. (BTW, the decoding on the Live 5.1 cards is not done "on-board", it's done with Liveware so it's software)

 

RedShirt

Golden Member
Aug 9, 2000
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Really. Is there any other reason to be Dolby Digital Able other than DVD's? Do some or any games use Dolby Digital?

I'm thinking about getting a live 5.1 just because it can do Dolby Digital for everything. The Hercules Gaming Theature says it only works in PowerDVD... but almost any card can do Dolby Digital in PowerDVD (with digital out). If there is no reason for Dolby Digital except for DVD's I'll probably get the Hercules Gaming Theature.

And if the SB Live 5.1 does Dolby Digital in Software, why doesn't my original SB live Plat do it? Creative pisses me off.
 

nortexoid

Diamond Member
May 1, 2000
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i thought that 5.1 analog was dolby virtualization (and 4.1) if its analog....

the only way to get true 5.1 dolby digital is thru an ac-3 pass thru coaxial/optical out on the sound card, which is supported by pretty much any card w/ digital-out (sblive 5.1, santa cruz, herc)

the santa cruz has 5.1 analog out as well...

also, do u need to plug in two channels into the front analog w/ the rest digitally out to the digital in on the speakers for 5.1 digital?...i thought i read that somehwere ...
 

Soccerman

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
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Which soundcards (if any) actually do the decoding on the card?

none, they all currently use drivers to force the CPU to do the decoding (grr, I wish Aureal was still alive!).

I think all cards with a Digital output simply pass through the digital signals to be decoded later (though I think it's possible you can force the CPU to decode it and then output the channels digitally without needing an external decoder).

Do some or any games use Dolby Digital?

again, no, if Aureal was allowed to survive though we would have seen it. the card that was going to do all this was the SQ3500, to be released last year, but Aureal was bought out by creative after going bankrupt.

In fact, A3D 3.0 which was released before Aureal died is a 3D Audio API that took A3D 2.0 (wavetracing and all), and added dolby digital support to it. in other words, you could have your soundcard output 5.1 discrete channels of audio in a game, using either the Analogue output, or the digital output. can't do that today! we're still stuck with 4 channels.
 

RedShirt

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Aug 9, 2000
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Ok... So... I'm waiting for the Klipsch 5.1 speakers, which I presume do not have a Dolby Digital Decoder. If I were to buy the Herc Gaming Theature the only way I could get dolby digital is with PowerDVD which will do the decoding by the CPU.

Or the Nforce motherboard will have hardware dolby digital decoding... Which I do not want to wait for.

Since games do not use Dolby Digital, I would be just as fine with the Herc (or Santa Cruise) cards as a Sound Blaster 5.1.

I really do not want a Creative sound card because I do hate them.
 

Kingofcomputer

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Apr 6, 2000
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<< And if the SB Live 5.1 does Dolby Digital in Software, why doesn't my original SB live Plat do it? Creative pisses me off. >>

Creative (really very creative) wants you to fall into the marketing gimmick to buy sb live first, then upgrade to sb live platinum - just for live drive and new liveware version before it's free to download, then upgrade to sb live 5.1 platinum - just add ir remote and 5.1 analog output, so you can dump your expensive spdif input built-in DD 5.1 decoder receiver and 5.1 speakers set and upgrade to a new cheap 6ch analog inputs only speakers set to enjoy DD 5.1 from DVD using software decoding.

The purpose for 5.1 analog output on every new sound card is for cheap 5.1 analog input only speakers set, so you don't need to buy expensive spdif capable with built-in DD 5.1 decoder speakers set.
 

Soccerman

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
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Or the Nforce motherboard will have hardware dolby digital decoding...

actually, the only features that the nForce is advertised to have is Dolby Digital ENCODING, which seems awefully strange to me..

I think they have the ability to decode Dolby digital and then send it out the analogue channels though as well.

why do I think that DD encoding is strange? well when you encode things in DD, you get lossy compression (like MP3 for example, only some people say DD is worse).

So, you're playing an MP3, it gets decoded to PCM, then encoded in hardware and sent out your digital output, only to be re-decoded by your Dolby digital reciever. WTF is the point of that? you still only get 2 channels of audio, and you have higher potential for compression artifacts! just send it out the digital port already! sheesh!
 

RedShirt

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Aug 9, 2000
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But the Regular Live doesn't support Dolby Digital like the 5.1. On Creative's Website it says that the regular live can't do dolby digital (via software or whatever) and the Live 5.1 can. What's up with that (I'm talking about using the digital out even)
 

Kingofcomputer

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Apr 6, 2000
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don't believe everything the manufacturer says.

anyone with original live and using newest powerdvd or windvd can say something about that?
 

RedShirt

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Aug 9, 2000
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Ok... What other use is there for Dolby Digital for your computer? Is there ANY other reason why it is becoming such a big deal?

What is the purpose of these 5.1 speakers? Just for movies? Does EAX and A3D Support 5 channels? I'm getting very confused.
 

whitelight

Diamond Member
Apr 9, 2001
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right now, dolby digital is only for dvd's. in my opinion 5.1 speakers are mainly for home theater purposes. from my knowledge, a3d only works with up to 4 speakers. with a center channel, sound gets muddled and you lose sound positioning quality. not sure about eax technology.
 

Soccerman

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
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from my knowledge, a3d only works with up to 4 speakers.,

partly, true, A3D 3.0 supports Dolby Digital (which also supports 5.1). but I'm just nitpicking now..
 

RedShirt

Golden Member
Aug 9, 2000
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Ahh, so 5.1 is useless for games... (Since Aureal is now dead and no one even support A3D 2.0)
 

Adrian Tung

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Oct 10, 1999
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Actually, there is one game (that I know of) that uses 5.1 - Clive Barker's Undying... it may not be Dolby Digital, but at least it's nice to know that games are beginning to use the center channel as well.


:)atwl
 

Noriaki

Lifer
Jun 3, 2000
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Ok....I think you are getting a bit confused as to what Dolby Digital is...

DVDs are a totally digital media, and so audio has to be stored in a Digital format. They also decided that they wanted 5.1 channels. There are a couple of digital formats that do this...they chose one of the 5.1 channel compression schemes called Dolby Digital (another common one is DTS, and it behaves exactly the same as DD, it's just a different compression scheme...like Zip vs Rar for computer data, exact same functionality). Then you pass this digital stream off to a device somewhere that converts it into 6 analog channels and sends it to your speakers.

You can not hear digital sound, only analog. It has to get converted somewhere.

Creative advertises that their drivers can do it...if the card detects a Dolby Digital stream it will split it into 6 analog channels and output (exactly the same thing an expensive decoder will do).

But what Creative doesn't tell you is that this is a pretty much useless feature. Either of the good software DVD players (WinDVD2000 and PowerDVD) can read a Dolby Digital audio stream and split it to 6 analog channels and send the 6 analog channels to your soundcard for output.

The only way Creative's drivers doing it are useful is if your DVD player doesn't support 6 channel analog output...and lets face it if you are ponying up $400US for some 6 channel speakers you can afford a decent DVD player that will output in 6 channels.

Creative's card doesn't even do it, the CPU does. It's just a driver hack, it's exactly the same thing as the way the software decoder does it.

Bottom line:
There is no soundcard that can do Dolby Digital decoding in hardware (the Aureal SQ3500 was going to, but it never made it to market) and ANY soundcard can do software Dolby Dgiital decoding in software with a good software DVD player.


As for Dolby Digital in other uses, no there are none. Why would a game use it? The game can just output directly to 6 analog channels if it wants to make use of them. Encoding to Dolby Digital would take more CPU time than appling effects like A3D, S3D or EAX....and then you'd have this Dolby Digital stream that you have decode somewhere and most computer speakers don't have decoders onboard, so it would fall to your CPU to decode it. So basically you would waste CPU encoding the DD stream, then you'd waste CPU decoding it so your sound card could output it to your speakers. Sounds useful huh?

At somepoint when we have really fast CPUs they might do it, because they you could hook up a digital passthrough to a home theatre setup and get surround sound from it.....but at the moment no (you can actually do this anyways, you just need a reciever that supports 6 analog &quot;pre-decoded&quot; inputs).

Real Time Dolby Digital Encoding would suck ALOT of CPU time. And I don't think it's that desireable for games.

Now there is a game or two now that support 5.1 analog channels, and there will be more to come I think. The next revision of EAX is going to support 5.1 channels, and I think S3D does as well. I know QSound3D does (On the Philips *Edge series)....but supporting 5.1 channels != Dolby Digital. Dolby Digital is a way of compressing 5.1 channels into one digital stream so you can connect your DVD player to your reciever with one cable, and save space on the DVD. It's not something that is desirable or useful for gaming, which can just send it's 6 channels directly through the soundcard, no need for compression.

I hope you can make some sense of all that.
 

Kingofcomputer

Diamond Member
Apr 6, 2000
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Noriaka, so can original live or live platinum/x-gamer/mp3+ output DD 5.1 thru its spdif jack?
Redshirt already has platinum, he's thinking to upgrade to platinum 5.1 to get DD 5.1.
 

Auric

Diamond Member
Oct 11, 1999
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Don't get hung up on the &quot;.1&quot;. In my opine a subwoofer should only be added as the finishing touch, not to compensate for limited range speakers. But I digress. Five speakers are useful for games. UT, for one, has Dolby Surround Pro-Logic support.
 

Noriaki

Lifer
Jun 3, 2000
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<< Noriaka, so can original live or live platinum/x-gamer/mp3+ output DD 5.1 thru its spdif jack? >>

Yes they can. But that's not Dolby Digital decoding, that's just sending the digital stream off to an external decoder to do it. But if that's what you want to do then any SBLive! is capable of it.

But he's looking at the Klipsch 5.1s which to my knowledge do not come with an onboard decoder, so you need 5.1 analog outputs, which the X-Gmaer/MP3+/Platinum do not have. You have to step up to the 5.1 series to get 6 analog outs. But if it's just passthrough you are looking for then you don't need to worry about decoding at all, it's just passthrough, and pretty much any soundcard with a digital out jack can do that.