Doing research on new lcd/home theater

[z1ggy]

Me and my gf are moving into a new apartment June 1, and we really want a new TV along with a good home theater system. We would like an LCD TV and I think we agreed 46'' would be a good size. As far as brands go, I have really only looked at Sony, Samsung and LG. For the sound system I have looked at Sony, Samsung and Bose. The room is about 16' by 13'. I also would like the rear speakers to be wireless, as I see that's a common option these days, too. There isn't really a price range per say as I know a good TV and system will cost me at least $1500 so I would like to keep it reasonable. Any good places to shop around online?? Thanks!

 

[Fallen Kell]

Please, please, PLEASE look at other speaker/sound systems other then those 3. To be honest, all of them suck. You may be much better off in the long run buying the speaker setup piecemeal, getting them as you can afford to. Start out with just a 2.1 or 3.1 setup with receiver which can do HDMI 1.3 audio supports TrueHD and DTS-HD audio processing. As for wireless, on cheaper speakers it will be pretty crappy. It is simply a marketing scheme at this point, in the "we can do that too" fashion. Most of this started because Polk Audio released wireless in-wall speakers, but those were something like $4.5k EACH. At the more affordable couple hundred dollar range, the wireless systems are horrible compared to direct wired with a much higher noise floor from interference and audio drop-outs. It just isn't read yet at that price level.

As for TV's, take a look at the LG 47" 47LH90.

http://www.lg.com/us/tv-audio-video/televisions/LG-led-tv-47LH90.jsp

It pretty much does everything, 1080p, 240Hz processing, LED backlight with local dimming... It is even THX certified for image settings, which means it can be calibrated properly (something that a lot of panels can not fully do).

You should be able to get it around $1400 (Vanns has it for $1399 w/ free shipping):
http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/it...key_id=6615855

 

[z1ggy]

Thanks for the reply. I heard that the 240hz TV's are not as good or have issues with gaming, esp. the LED ones. I plan on having my PS3 and maybe getting a Wii hooked up to it as well.

The wireless thing isn't a must, but it would be nice/cool. I think it will just be easier for me to get the system all at once. If Sony and Bose suck, what are some good brands then to be looking at?

 

[unfalliblekrutch]

Depends on your price range. Onkyo may be a good starting point. Beyond that, look to at least get the receiver separate from the 5.1 set. For example, there is a cheap Jamo set from Vanns for $250 that you could combine with say an onkyo SR308 (this is an example of low budget since I dont know how much you are looking to spend, unless you mean $1500 for TV AND sound, which would be tough if you're looking at such expensive tvs)

Jamos: http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/item/features/544674283/jamo-s-406-hcs-1-black?s_c=site_search

 

[Fallen Kell]

The LG is one of the few where it is pretty decent, and if it doesn't work properly with your particular source material, you can actually turn it off on that LG, unlike on just about every other LCD with 240Hz processing.

Unfortunately it is hard to simply recommend the best in terms of audio. You really need to go out and listen to different speakers. The problem is that most places like Best Buy won't have a lot of selection in terms of higher end brands. The reason why you should listen to the higher end brands is to find out what they sound like and then you can better compare the lower end models against something. To paraphrase, to someone who has only ever eaten cow poo all his/her life, a hot dog would be the best best meal in the world.

Listen to some Martin Logans, Swans, and B&W... Then listen to some Klipsch, Polk Audio, and Padadigm. There are a few internet direct ones that you might want to listen to as well, but they are harder to do unless there are people in your area willing to give a demo.

Also for speakers, seriously consider buying used gear as well (as long as you can check it out/listen to them or return if broken). You can usually get a lot higher quality stuff on the used market then if you were trying to buy new. Watch craig's list and even avsforums for sale pages.

 

[z1ggy]

Depends on your price range. Onkyo may be a good starting point. Beyond that, look to at least get the receiver separate from the 5.1 set. For example, there is a cheap Jamo set from Vanns for $250 that you could combine with say an onkyo SR308 (this is an example of low budget since I dont know how much you are looking to spend, unless you mean $1500 for TV AND sound, which would be tough if you're looking at such expensive tvs)

Jamos: http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/it..._c=site_search

Well I was referring to $1500 for a TV but I didnt really want to go over. I guess it probably is better to just get piece by piece for the long term. Overall though, what is the most important piece of the system to make sure I get the best of? Like, would it be okay to get a really good receiver with a so-so subwoofer and 5.1 system, and then upgrade the sub in a few months time.. then the speakers?

 

[unfalliblekrutch]

Well I was referring to $1500 for a TV but I didnt really want to go over. I guess it probably is better to just get piece by piece for the long term. Overall though, what is the most important piece of the system to make sure I get the best of? Like, would it be okay to get a really good receiver with a so-so subwoofer and 5.1 system, and then upgrade the sub in a few months time.. then the speakers?

Usually, you want a decent to good receiver and a pair of nice speakers and a sub. Then, you can buy three more speakers to make it 5.1 later (moving the original pair to surround duty). And you can upgrade the sub.

 

[s44]

TV: How far are you sitting? 46" may be too small. Size is more important than any other feature, and you can get a very good 54-55" set for $1500.

Sound: What's your initial budget? How far from your speakers are you sitting? The cheapest plausible solution is this Onkyo HTIB, which will give you a decent receiver to work with afterwards, but more money offers even more options.

 

[jaha2000]

You planning on a giant surround system and live an apartment?
Big waste IMO. You start ripping on that sub and your neighbors will be pounding your door down. Just something to keep in mind before you sink 1000 bucks into audio equipment.

 

[unfalliblekrutch]

Good audio doesnt mean loud. Sure, it will have the capability to be loud, but there's no one forcing you to turn it up. Good audio means good quality audio and that's what you're paying for.

 

[vi edit]

Honestly, after having a very nice 2.0 system set up in my rental I almost prefer it over a dedicated 3 channel front setup. Part of it is due to the type of speakers I'm running up front (an open baffle) but I don't feel like I'm missing the center at all.

If I was limited on space and size, I would go with a very nice 2.0 setup over a disposable surround sound HITAB setup any day. The dialog and music soundtracks just have so much more life and clarity to them over the cheapo little satellites you'll get out of a box deal.

A nice set of monitors & a t-amp can be hand for under $200. If you want, you can blend in a nice sub with high level imputs for another $200-$300 and for the $500 you invested you'll have performance that the systems you mentioned can't dream of touching.

 

[Fallen Kell]

Well I was referring to $1500 for a TV but I didnt really want to go over. I guess it probably is better to just get piece by piece for the long term. Overall though, what is the most important piece of the system to make sure I get the best of? Like, would it be okay to get a really good receiver with a so-so subwoofer and 5.1 system, and then upgrade the sub in a few months time.. then the speakers?

The most important speakers would be the front three, so the front left, right, and center. These you will typically want to get either the exact same speakers or ones which are tonal matched to each other so that sounds which pan across the front will be seamless as they go from speaker to speaker. In terms of tonal matching, usually the most important characteristics are that the speakers use the same tweeters (and the same crossover point to the tweeters). The center does not necessarily need to be able to reproduce low frequency sound as well as the left/right speakers, but it should be able to go down to at least 80Hz as you want the center channel to be able to fully produce the sound range of the human voice (adult male voice range is typically 85Hz to 180Hz). When the center speaker can not reproduce those sounds, you would typically have to setup your receiver/pre-processor to put a crossover and move those lower frequency sounds to your subwoofer, which especially in the case of spoken words, would typically muddy the sounds and make it hard to understand. This is typically the flaw of the home-theater-in-a-box setups. The center speaker can not reproduce sounds at 80Hz without a large drop-off in volume, and then you have a "hole" in frequency range which you can't hear certain things being said.

 

[z1ggy]

The most important speakers would be the front three, so the front left, right, and center. These you will typically want to get either the exact same speakers or ones which are tonal matched to each other so that sounds which pan across the front will be seamless as they go from speaker to speaker. In terms of tonal matching, usually the most important characteristics are that the speakers use the same tweeters (and the same crossover point to the tweeters). The center does not necessarily need to be able to reproduce low frequency sound as well as the left/right speakers, but it should be able to go down to at least 80Hz as you want the center channel to be able to fully produce the sound range of the human voice (adult male voice range is typically 85Hz to 180Hz). When the center speaker can not reproduce those sounds, you would typically have to setup your receiver/pre-processor to put a crossover and move those lower frequency sounds to your subwoofer, which especially in the case of spoken words, would typically muddy the sounds and make it hard to understand. This is typically the flaw of the home-theater-in-a-box setups. The center speaker can not reproduce sounds at 80Hz without a large drop-off in volume, and then you have a "hole" in frequency range which you can't hear certain things being said.

Yeah that makes perfect sense. I think I am going to go with the general consensus and get piece by piece. I am an electrical engineer, so I know all about frequency ranges, dB's etc etc. I just wasn't sure if it really made much difference in brands, getting the "home theater in a box" or whatever. So I will prob. just start off with a solid receiver that has lots of options to build off in the future and a decent sub and some good left/right center speakers. Is Vanns.com the best place to get this stuff from, or are there other bargain websites?

 

[s44]

Vann's isn't bad. But for audio stuff you want to target the product before you go for a site. Newegg isn't bad either, actually.

I'd get the Denon 590/1610 for ~$300 (Electronics Expo with coupon, open box from Onecall), and try to find the Bic F12 available somewhere (should be ~$200). Speakers... Lots and lots of options. For a step up, look at the Onkyo SR707 and a lower-end Hsu or SVS sub.

edit: for TV, the first place to look is Amazon.

 

[vi edit]

If you are not adverse to refurb products, the Onkyo RC-160 is a very capable "budget" receiver with plenty of hookup options. It can be bought for under $300.

http://www.accessories4less.com/mak...el-Home-Theater-Receiver-Like-Tx-sr607/1.html

In terms of speakers...it's just really up to what you want to spend and where your preferences are. There's just an endless number of speakers that run the entire spectrum of price.

 

[Pia]

It's optimal to have the same speaker for fronts and center. Just something to keep in mind.

And it's true that subs are a little awkward in an apartment. I just had a neighbor knock on my door at night two days ago. I was doing pretty low-volume listening (no, really - just sitting at my desk), the walls are thick, and the sub only has a 6.5" woofer, but the bass still goes through the walls.

 

[unfalliblekrutch]

Newegg has a good price on the Polk Monitor series right now, specifically, the Monitor 60 is a pretty good deal @ $119+$3 shipping.

It really all really depends on your budget and what kind of sound you want though.

 

[z1ggy]

Newegg has a good price on the Polk Monitor series right now, specifically, the Monitor 60 is a pretty good deal @ $119+$3 shipping.

It really all really depends on your budget and what kind of sound you want though.

Well since I am going to be kind of putting together this system one part at a time and over time, replacing things for better parts, I would say spending under $600 would be ideal, right off the bat. As for sound, I obviously don't want to blow the windows out and have people knocking on my door complaining, but I would nice sound quality that really hits the lows good. Like in Avatar or something when you hear the rumble of the ship while it glides away.. that would be cool. Maybe it won't be possible at first but I guess that's my target overall.

Edit: So if somebody could give me a good frequency response range for the Sub, center, front and rear speakers that would be great.

Also, would I notice a difference when watching movies between 120 and 240 hz? Which is best for gaming?

 

[Fallen Kell]

It's optimal to have the same speaker for fronts and center. Just something to keep in mind.

Very true, but not always practical. For instance, my left and right speakers have each have 1x8" driver, 4x5.25" drivers, 1x4" driver, and then 1 tweeter, and they are about 5 feet tall and weight 125lbs each. Since I am using a TV and not a projector screen, either the TV or the speaker would be in the way of each other. So I have a speaker which uses the same tweeter, the same 4" driver, and uses 2 6.5" drivers at the same crossover point as the 4x5.25" drivers and 8" driver use from the left/right speakers. The 6.5" drivers let it accurately produce sound down to 60Hz (with an overall SPL of +/-3 from 60Hz to 30,000Hz). And since they speakers use the same crossover points between the different sized drivers, and use some of the exact same drivers (in terms of the 4" and tweeters), the panning of sound is very seamless across the front 3.

If your front speakers are smaller bookshelf speakers, then you may be able to fit them all when using a TV. But a big floor-stander will simply not work well sitting in front or behind the TV.

 

[alcoholbob]

Honestly, after having a very nice 2.0 system set up in my rental I almost prefer it over a dedicated 3 channel front setup.

You don't need a center for where the sitting position is narrow. In fact since the material is being doubled up, center channel material will be louder in the sitting position--you get a very nice sweet spot.

If the seating positions are wide (multiple sofas/seating across the long side of a room) a center channel is a must, because the material from center is 1-channel (mono). If you have two speakers facing each other playing the same mono material, you'd get a sound null. Phantom center (stereo with downmixed center) will be disastrous, because the wider angles have almost no vocal output due to destructive wave interference.