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Does your state penalize you for having an alternative fuel vehicle?

BarkingGhostar

Diamond Member
Nov 20, 2009
9,851
2,448
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I realize the act that the state of Georgia is doing may be to recoup cost from lost gasoline revenue which would go toward road maintenance but still it does not sit well with me. My state changes something like $213 a year for AFVs. The 2021 gasoline tax is 28.7 center per gallon. This means the state presumes that the average AFV would consume the dollar equivalent of about $750 in gasoline. My state considers cars like the Volt and Tesla the same way and these kinds of gasoline-electric/all-electric as using the roads without the recovery costs from motorists. But I was wondering how this was handled in other states?

BTW, makes no difference if an AFV owner gets and AFV tag, because this is an annual excise tax and has nothing to do with the tag office. If you want an AFV tag you have to pay for that separately. It is claimed AFV-tagged vehicles can use the HOT/HOV lanes freely but this requires a third effort in acquiring a PeachPass equipment handled through yet a third office. And their website seems to not jibe with this 'benefit of free-use of the HOT/HOV lanes as their website only mentions it on one section of one interstate.

Yes, I am buying a Tesla Model 3 but I feel the time I am saving from not having to visit the gas pumps will instead be spent bending over every bureaucratic sofa out there.
 

drnickriviera

Platinum Member
Jan 30, 2001
2,263
67
101
$100/yr extra for tags in TN for electrics. Sucks but still easily make that back in fuel cost savings. Especially at these gas prices
 

BarkingGhostar

Diamond Member
Nov 20, 2009
9,851
2,448
136
True. I checked my flat rate (not time of use rate), which is 11.67 cents/kWh and to charge the M3P from 0 to 100% it'll cost me a hair under $10. That's terrific compared to the Tundra ($77) and BMW 335i ($52), which get 370 and 410 miles. Taking the average of the Tundra+335 say 390 miles. The M3P has a range of 315 miles so cost per mile for it 3.17 cents, and comparing this to the Tundra and 335 at 20.81 and 12.68 cents per mile. This of course is based on Costco gas this morning which is $2.929/gallon regular for the Tundra and $3.299 Premium for the 335.
 

brianmanahan

Lifer
Sep 2, 2006
22,151
3,686
126
yep, 200$ on full electric and 100$ on hybrids

i can see why they'd do the tax on full electric, to pay for roads and such without the gas tax

but the fee on hybrids is just stupid IMHO
 

Torn Mind

Diamond Member
Nov 25, 2012
7,427
1,184
126
Seems like every state wants to make money on cars but the flavor differs.

In MD, there is no punishment for driving an electric or plug-in. There is an HOV benefit. Electric electrics can avoid emissions testing. It also has adopted ZEV regulations to make manufacturers sell more electrics.

Everyone just gets punished with a $135 registration fee every two years. No need for periodic safety inspections but the one you have to get before getting a registration is strict and extensive. The cops have authority to enforce burned out light bulbs, etc.
 

manly

Diamond Member
Jan 25, 2000
9,352
757
126
Kind of a weird stance, paying for road maintenance doesn't sit well with you. Only people who can't yet afford BEVs (the vast majority of people) should be paying towards road upkeep for the few who drive Model 3Ps?
 

pmv

Diamond Member
May 30, 2008
9,534
4,248
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Should really just be charges for the costs that the vehicles actually impose.

Road maintenance cost is one thing (and should be proportional to the mass of the vehicle, as that determines road wear). Local pollution is another, and CO2 yet another (those being roughly proportional to fuel consumption, depending on the nature of the fuel and the engine, so dealt with via fuel taxes, perhaps plus something related to the kind of engine you have).

And finally there needs to be an element of 'rent' for use of the roadspace, which needs to be rationed somehow. That last bit would surely be best covered via congestion charging, with road-pricing varying depending on the demand at any given time.

That also could cover the costs of policing the roads and disposing of all the dumped vehicles and tyres, plus all the admin costs. Or maybe that would need another flat-sum vehicle tax.

With all the different types of vehicles, used in different ways, the charges need to be separated out for each form of cost that vehicle use imposes on society.
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
61,599
9,362
126
www.uovalor.com
Road tax is BS, we already pay enough taxes through different avenues, which already go towards roads. Federal and provincial income tax, sales tax and municipal property taxes. Part of that is for infrastructure which means roads. The governments just loves to double dip every time they can.

The whole license plate sticker thing is already a big enough money grab as is and now they're penalizing people who are finding ways to save money by not needing to buy gas. Governments seem to really hate when people find a way to make or save money.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
13,547
10,470
136
Road tax is BS, we already pay enough taxes through different avenues, which already go towards roads. Federal and provincial income tax, sales tax and municipal property taxes. Part of that is for infrastructure which means roads. The governments just loves to double dip every time they can.

The whole license plate sticker thing is already a big enough money grab as is and now they're penalizing people who are finding ways to save money by not needing to buy gas. Governments seem to really hate when people find a way to make or save money.
Not sure how they do it in Canada but in the US the gas tax actually goes to roads.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
13,547
10,470
136
But so does property taxes. They are double dipping.
Did the Lord tell you at church that roads can only be fixed by one tax? Taxes can't go into a pool and have dual usage? That makes no sense.

Property taxes here go to other things as well, mostly schools.
 
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Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
61,599
9,362
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www.uovalor.com
My point is, we already pay more than enough taxes, it's up to them to budget properly, it's ridiculous having so many different taxes and being ringed dry especially if more than one are for the same thing. They are clearly not using it for roads when you look at the state of the roads.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
13,547
10,470
136
My point is, we already pay more than enough taxes, it's up to them to budget properly, it's ridiculous having so many different taxes and being ringed dry especially if more than one are for the same thing. They are clearly not using it for roads when you look at the state of the roads.
Does a business use all the revenue from one product to only buy more of that product, and another product only to that product, or do they share revenue and run the whole business?

I mean your argument they are double dipping just does not compute.

Can government be inefficient, I mean of course. That's quite evident. But that's not the discussion. You are arguing that you can't have multiple taxes contribute to multiple projects. Just doesn't make sense.
 
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Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
61,599
9,362
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www.uovalor.com
Does a business use all the revenue from one product to only buy more of that product, and another product only to that product, or do they share revenue and run the whole business?

I mean your argument they are double dipping just does not compute.

Can government be inefficient, I mean of course. That's quite evident. But that's not the discussion. You are arguing that you can't have multiple taxes contribute to multiple projects. Just doesn't make sense.
So you're ok with paying another tax just for sake of it then. I don't know why anyone in their right mind would defend that. Now if the roads were in super good condition it would be one thing, but it's not like it's helping anything. They just keep taking more and more of our money no matter where you turn, they have some way to take more money, and we don't see much come from it.

They're even planing a "online entertainment tax" soon. It's absurd how much money they take from us.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
13,547
10,470
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So you're ok with paying another tax just for sake of it then. I don't know why anyone in their right mind would defend that. Now if the roads were in super good condition it would be one thing, but it's not like it's helping anything. They just keep taking more and more of our money no matter where you turn, they have some way to take more money, and we don't see much come from it.

They're even planing a "online entertainment tax" soon. It's absurd how much money they take from us.
What are you talking about? Who said I want to pay a tax for the sake of it? I am against inefficiencies but the argument you can't fix roads from more than just one tax source is ridiculous.

As far as government infrastructure, I have been a great beneficiary of it. I live in NJ with some of the best public schools in the country, so I got a good education in public schools for 10 of the 12 years I went before college. I went to a state university, and got a good education. Unemployment helped me when I got laid off once. The roads have generally provided me with a way to get to a shit ton of places, and the FAA has guided the planes I've flown in to plenty of airports quite safely. Mass transit around where I live, while probably the best in the US, is still lacking compared to Europe where they don't only plan around the car. So I've benefited from some good mass transit, relative to US terms, mostly because I live in the NYC metro area, but still that's government infrastructure working for me. Have not had any major power outages save for Sandy for a few days. Never had a sewer backup. Never been invaded by a foreign country, so the defense infrastructure is good. I can keep going. It can be better for sure, mostly if we didn't have one political party here only love cars and hate mass transit, but it's definitely a first world problem. I've gone hiking and camping in parks maintained and preserved by the government, and that's been great. My car is safer because the government mandated seatbelts once upon a time, and my air is cleaner since the government helped regulate pollution. I can look at nutritional facts and ingredients on good products better now that it's been mandated, giving me the option to be healthier. This stuff isn't perfect, but it's all possible because of examples of good governance.

I can keep going. I guess it's different up in Canada?
 
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pmv

Diamond Member
May 30, 2008
9,534
4,248
136
But so does property taxes. They are double dipping.
Don't know about Canada, but property taxes here are not paid exclusively by people who drive.

Roads are maintained out of general taxation. The various motoring taxes go some way towards paying for the costs that motorists impose on everyone else (pollution, congestion and the delays caused to everyone by motorists clogging up the roads, wasteful use of urban land as storage spaces for their vehicles, costs to the NHS of driving-related health problems, cost of policing the roads and of the damage to life and infrastructure that law-breaking drivers cause, CO2, cost of wars to secure the oil-supply, etc, etc...).

Motoring-related taxes are not high enough, in my opinion, but it's better than nothing.
 

Lost_in_the_HTTP

Diamond Member
Nov 17, 2019
4,784
2,560
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There's been talk of a per mile tax, though I'm not sure how they'd ensure honest reporting.

I almost buy more gas for my mowers and yard machines than I put in my cars. I drive less than 5,000 miles a year usually, while others drive 50, 000 or more. I don't see where my few hundred gallons of gas is doing much to help roads while some moneybags trophy wife in her Tesla tools around all day shopping doesn't pay any.

A per mile tax would address that disparity and heavier vehicles could have a higher rate.
 

BarkingGhostar

Diamond Member
Nov 20, 2009
9,851
2,448
136
I would think it would be relatively easy with the right implementation. For instance, every time I get my vehicle's inspected for emissions they track the odometer reading. All of this is fed into the state tag office. But there are plenty of places in America that don't require emissions testing and most don't on brand new vehicles until they've reached something like three years old. And the way technology is going you would think the next generation of OBD would use connected technology to automatically report annual mileage.
 

MtnMan

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2004
6,926
5,154
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The title should read:

How does your state ensure that alternative fuel vehicles pay their fair share of the taxes that build and maintain the state's roads?
 
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brianmanahan

Lifer
Sep 2, 2006
22,151
3,686
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How does your state ensure that alternative fuel vehicles pay their fair share of the taxes that build and maintain the state's roads?
that doesn't really make sense for hybrids though

most hybrid vehicles get less MPG than my compact gas-powered honda
 

MtnMan

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2004
6,926
5,154
136
I would think it would be relatively easy with the right implementation. For instance, every time I get my vehicle's inspected for emissions they track the odometer reading. All of this is fed into the state tag office. But there are plenty of places in America that don't require emissions testing and most don't on brand new vehicles until they've reached something like three years old. And the way technology is going you would think the next generation of OBD would use connected technology to automatically report annual mileage.
My state has annual safety inspections and emissions checks in select counties. There was talk about using the odometer reading, which is already recorded each time, to tax drivers for miles driven.

Then someone posed a simple question that shot this down. Why are you going to tax me for miles driven in other states be if for business or pleasure?
 

ponyo

Lifer
Feb 14, 2002
19,521
2,696
126
The title should read:

How does your state ensure that alternative fuel vehicles pay their fair share of the taxes that build and maintain the state's roads?
Except the annual $213 fee is higher than what you pay in annual gasoline tax. If you want to play the fair game, you're not paying your fair share and asking the EV owners to pay bigger portion than you.

I believe there should be carbon tax.
 

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