Does this seem right to you guys? Water filter question.

[bbhaag]

So the other water filter thread got me thinking about the filter I use on my house. It's a standard 10" filter housing and the filter I use is the 10" Heavy-Duty Taste & Odor from Menards. These things cost around $55 each and I'm only getting 1 month or 5000 gallons out of one before it needs changed which is crazy to me because the label says 6 months or 15,000 gallons.

So my question is why am I not getting longer life out of my filters? Do I need to install a pre filter before the carbon block filter? Will that help extend the life of the carbon block?
Just for reference here is a pic of the filter I swapped out this morning. I did the math on the meter and it lasted 4600 gallons before we started noticing pressure drops in the appliances and faucets so I know it needed replaced.

Does my city just have really crappy water?

 

[BoomerD]

Do you have access to your city's annual water report?

if that little filter is for your entire house, I'm really not surprised it doesn't last long. It's just overworked, IMO. I have 2 of the 20" cartridges for our house.

 

[bbhaag]

Do you have access to your city's annual water report?

if that little filter is for your entire house, I'm really not surprised it doesn't last long. It's just overworked, IMO. I have 2 of the 20" cartridges for our house.

Yeah your post and picture is actually what got me thinking about it a little closer.

Yep, this filter is for the entire house with a family of four. I don't know about my cities annual water report but I'll do some searching and see if they have a copy of it available online.

Do you think adding some additional pre filters would help or would I just be spinning my wheels because 10" filters are just to small for the entire house?

 

[BoomerD]

Yeah your post and picture is actually what got me thinking about it a little closer.

Yep, this filter is for the entire house with a family of four. I don't know about my cities annual water report but I'll do some searching and see if they have a copy of it available online.

Do you think adding some additional pre filters would help or would I just be spinning my wheels because the filters are just to small for the entire house?

Without knowing the condition of your water, I'd just be talking out my ass...but, hey, I'm a fckn expert at that...so, here goes.

IMO, for a family of 4, that little 10" filter is just way too small. 2 of the 4.5 x 20" canisters SHOULD be good enough, but since it would be a "new" install, if you have the room, a triple canister might be good as well. (5 to 20 micron sediment pre filter, .5 to 5 micron pre filter, carbon filter) the first stage filters SHOULD last at least 6 months, the carbon filter SHOULD last a year...but, remember, this is me talking out of my ass...without knowing exactly what your water is like...hardness, TDS, chemical impurities/pollutants, etc.
Like so many things, there really is no "one size fits all" water treatment solution.

 

[herm0016]

That thing is not even dirty. I'm 1 month on a 5 micron and it's caked with 1/4 in of silt. But we are on a well. Are you seeing a noticeable pressure drop after one month?

 

[BoomerD]

That thing is not even dirty. I'm 1 month on a 5 micron and it's caked with 1/4 in of silt. But we are on a well. Are you seeing a noticeable pressure drop after one month?

City water should be filtered be filtered before it's pumped to the customers. While SOME silt in well water isn't abnormal, yours sounds unusually dirty. Problems with the well?

 

[bbhaag]

That thing is not even dirty. I'm 1 month on a 5 micron and it's caked with 1/4 in of silt. But we are on a well. Are you seeing a noticeable pressure drop after one month?

Yeah the pressure drop is pretty noticeable. The dishwasher and washing machine start whistling when filling due to the low pressure. Also the shower heads start to whistle and the toilets also have issues keeping the tanks full. So yeah it's pretty noticeable.

 

[herm0016]

City water should be filtered be filtered before it's pumped to the customers. While SOME silt in well water isn't abnormal, yours sounds unusually dirty. Problems with the well?

It's just the way it is in Colorado. It's about 250 deep but we are at 5600ish feet above sea-level. Call the city and ask them. Maybe they have an issue at a water tower or pumping station.

 

[KeithP]

I know nothing about water filters but is it possible that its flow rate of 5 GPM is a problem? I was under the impression that the main water going into a home was higher pressure than that. If its flow rate when brand new is marginal, it wouldn't take much restriction to cause a problem.

-kp

 

[deadlyapp]

I know nothing about water filters but is it possible that its flow rate of 5 GPM is a problem? I was under the impression that the main water going into a home was higher pressure than that. If its flow rate when brand new is marginal, it wouldn't take much restriction to cause a problem.

-kp

This is a good point. 5GPM should be enough unless you're running a load of appliances/faucets at once, but could be a limitation if your incoming pressure is very close to causing issues.

Easy check would be to install a pressure gauge before and after (or put in a differential gauge) and see what happens

 

[shortylickens]

your house uses 5000 gallons every month?
How many freakin life forms are in there!?? And what type?

 

[bbhaag]

your house uses 5000 gallons every month?
How many freakin life forms are in there!?? And what type?

Yup and I already mentioned how many people.

Anyway, thanks for all the advice so far everyone. I've got a water pressure gauge on order so I can test the incoming psi. I don't think flow rate is an issue but if it is how would I test for that? Would the gpm correlate to my psi?

And just for reference here is the gauge I ordered from Amazon. I'll connect it using the hose spigots that come off the water lines in the sump room.

 

[deadlyapp]

Yup and I already mentioned how many people.

Anyway, thanks for all the advice so far everyone. I've got a water pressure gauge on order so I can test the incoming psi. I don't think flow rate is an issue but if it is how would I test for that? Would the gpm correlate to my psi?

And just for reference here is the gauge I ordered from Amazon. I'll connect it using the hose spigots that come off the water lines in the sump room.

You'd need a calibrated orifice to calculate GPM. All you'd need is differential pressure or two pressure gauges on either side of the orifice and then it's pretty simple to calculate. You can also just buy a flowrate meter, but they can get spendy. Plus side of a flowrate meter is that you can sometimes get total flowrate over time as well.

 

[herm0016]

you measure the flow rate at a specific pressure, so say you are getting 5 gpm at 60 psi, but you increase the flow rate to 6 gpm and your pressure drops to 30, it could be a problem. that's why its useful to be able to measure and vary the flow rate while you are reading the pressure. a gauge like this works well. the picture on Grainger is wrong, look at the spec sheet and it shows the proper thing, a pressure gauge, the valve and then the flow rate gauge.

https://www.grainger.com/product/DURO-Flow-Meter-and-Pressure-Tester-9JEE7

then you can really see what is going on by measuring how much pressure drop you have at a certain flow rate. pressure alone with out knowing how much it drops when you turn something on is not all that useful, as maybe there is a problem were a small flow rate creates a large pressure drop, in the system and that pressure drop decreases the available force pushing water through the filter for example.

 

[BoomerD]

Is it possible that the pump is getting worn out and unable to push pressure against the moderate resistance of a less than new filter?

 

[herm0016]

Is it possible that the pump is getting worn out and unable to push pressure against the moderate resistance of a less than new filter?

he is on city water.

 

[BoomerD]

he is on city water.

Well...scratch that then.

 

[deadlyapp]

you measure the flow rate at a specific pressure, so say you are getting 5 gpm at 60 psi, but you increase the flow rate to 6 gpm and your pressure drops to 30, it could be a problem. that's why its useful to be able to measure and vary the flow rate while you are reading the pressure. a gauge like this works well. the picture on Grainger is wrong, look at the spec sheet and it shows the proper thing, a pressure gauge, the valve and then the flow rate gauge.

https://www.grainger.com/product/DURO-Flow-Meter-and-Pressure-Tester-9JEE7

then you can really see what is going on by measuring how much pressure drop you have at a certain flow rate. pressure alone with out knowing how much it drops when you turn something on is not all that useful, as maybe there is a problem were a small flow rate creates a large pressure drop, in the system and that pressure drop decreases the available force pushing water through the filter for example.

I was with you for most of this, until you got to the last part. That isn't how hydraulic systems work. The pressure difference induces a flow, in this case in a residential system, you have atmospheric pressure (0 psig) at the outlet of faucets, shower heads, etc, and system pressure in the line. Every bend in the line, every restriction, etc all imparts a pressure loss to the system, so if you have 30 psi at the inlet to the house, you'll have a loss within the house system depending on the flow.

You're kind of right that pressure loss without flowrate isn't that useful, but realistically it's pretty simple to simply monitor pressure loss while adding appliances (eg faucet, shower head, toilet, etc) to determine an unacceptable pressure drop.

However there is no way that a small flowrate can result in a large pressure drop, that's simply not how a closed system works. The higher the flowrate, the more pressure drop through the entire system and it all ultimately is restricted by whatever is on the main branch of the line.

 

[herm0016]

I was with you for most of this, until you got to the last part. That isn't how hydraulic systems work. The pressure difference induces a flow, in this case in a residential system, you have atmospheric pressure (0 psig) at the outlet of faucets, shower heads, etc, and system pressure in the line. Every bend in the line, every restriction, etc all imparts a pressure loss to the system, so if you have 30 psi at the inlet to the house, you'll have a loss within the house system depending on the flow.

You're kind of right that pressure loss without flowrate isn't that useful, but realistically it's pretty simple to simply monitor pressure loss while adding appliances (eg faucet, shower head, toilet, etc) to determine an unacceptable pressure drop.

fair enough,

However there is no way that a small flowrate can result in a large pressure drop, that's simply not how a closed system works. The higher the flowrate, the more pressure drop through the entire system and it all ultimately is restricted by whatever is on the main branch of the line.

totally possible if you have something like a kink (orfice) in the incoming line or a wonky gate valve, or a lot of corrosion in a pipe. you could see a large pressure drop with a small flow increase at the spigot. maybe better said as a high slope on a pressure / flow curve. I had something like this going on at a previous house where the static pressure was 80 psi, but with a few gal per min flow the pressure would drop to around 40 psi. and we could only get about 5 gpm at the minimum pressure it took to activate the sprinkler heads. it was not a problem in daily use, but we had to cut down on the number of sprinkler heads per zone because of it. the sprinkler guy knew his stuff and had not seen that much of a drop in other homes on our water system and said there is something wrong somewhere. I was going to replace the main water valve but never got around to it and we sold the place.

also, its not a closed system like a hydraulic system on a tractor when the spigot is open, its more like the tractor after a hose has blown out.

 

[bbhaag]

So here's what the gauge is reading off the water spigot in the sump room. This is before the filter and unfortunately I don't have one after the filter so I can't take a reading.

Does this pressure seem ok to you guys? If it does should I start looking at the gpm or is it more of an under sized filter issue like Boomer mentioned?

 

[herm0016]

you can hook it to an outside spigot if that water goes through the filter.

measure the pressure at the current point with a faucet running and record the pressure, then do the same after the filter with the same faucet running. you can hook up the gauge anywhere in the system to measure the system pressure. With nothing on, you are measuring the static pressure, and 60 is perfectly fine for a static pressure from a municipal system.

 

[bbhaag]

you can hook it to an outside spigot if that water goes through the filter.

measure the pressure at the current point with a faucet running and record the pressure, then do the same after the filter with the same faucet running. you can hook up the gauge anywhere in the system to measure the system pressure. With nothing on, you are measuring the static pressure, and 60 is perfectly fine for a static pressure from a municipal system.

Unfortunately I can't because the outside spigots are on their own meter and they do not run through the filter.

I just checked the pressure with the kitchen faucet running and the gauge didn't move or if it did it wasn't enough for me to see. I don't have any garden hose fittings after the filter so I might have to run to Menards to get some fittings to adapt the gauge to a faucet thread size.

 

[BoomerD]

Unfortunately I can't because the outside spigots are on their own meter and they do not run through the filter.

I just checked the pressure with the kitchen faucet running and the gauge didn't move or if it did it wasn't enough for me to see. I don't have any garden hose fittings after the filter so I might have to run to Menards to get some fittings to adapt the gauge to a faucet thread size.

Not sure if your local store has this in stock or not...but MOST hardware stores have something similar. (Pet stores that deal in aquarium supplies should have something similar as well.)

https://www.amazon.com/Multi-Thread-Garden-Adapter-Female-10513/dp/B008M6KFD6/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=garden+hose+to+sink+faucet+adapter&qid=1638312575&qsid=140-3890422-9126019&refinements=p_89%3ADanco&rnid=2528832011&s=hi&sr=1-1&sres=B008M6KFD6%2CB00GP9G860%2CB008M6KBWG%2CB008OCHD9W%2CB008YEV8SM%2CB00FI6U81C%2CB008RXRBIG%2CB00FI6UVK0%2CB008OCH9XW%2CB00GP9GFRM%2CB00FI6UH3Q%2CB008OCHCAW%2CB00FI6UBVE%2CB01LW4DU1C

 

[killster1]

your house uses 5000 gallons every month?
How many freakin life forms are in there!?? And what type?

i think i should double check my water bill i feel like i would use 25 thousand gallons some months.

 

[sdifox]

i think i should double check my water bill i feel like i would use 25 thousand gallons some months.

A 16*32 pool with average 5ft depth is 19200 gallon...