does the PS4 APU unified memory= advantages over PC

[Artic_King500]

does its shared memory give it advantages over a PC

PS4 uses shared memory APU unified memory... PC have seperate memory blocks for GPU and CPU

so does that mean that a console optimized game could not work on a PC


go here on neogaf and look at what user "Randsec" says about this http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=726691&pag...


The new consoles are backward compatible with PC-class programs. Existing PC games and programs should port fairly easily to console, if one counts a new OS interface and perhaps a need to optimize for multiple cores as "easy."

And programs written for a console in the PC style should port similarly easily to a PC. BUT...

The consoles have a fundamentally different architecture: They use APU-style common memory. In contrast, a PC with a separate video card has separate main memory and video memory, and simply does not have common memory. No such PC can be bought or built.

While the APU approach has pluses and minuses, the minus for compatibility is that best APU efficiency involves data in common memory being worked on "simultaneously" by CPU cores and GPU cores. That option simply is not available on a PC with a separate video card. The only PC architecture similar to a console is an APU without a separate video card. And available APU's are not as strong as those in the consoles.

As console programs change design for maximum console efficiency (to appeal to the most-profitable market), they may become difficult to port to a normal PC. Possibly we could see releases with both a new "console" engine, and the old "PC engine." But only the console engine will continue to develop, and that will only work with common memory.


http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=726691&pag... this is what randsec said on page 5 post 220

 

[Childs]

This is nothing new. Both Intel and AMD have CPUs with integrated gpus that shared RAM. Its only an advantage in that you can determine how much RAM you want to use for either the CPU or GPU, but that generally only mattered on console because the amount of RAM they were working with was small. Most mid range PCs probably have more combined RAM and VRAM than these new consoles.

 

[bystander36]

This is nothing new. Both Intel and AMD have CPUs with integrated gpus that shared RAM. Its only an advantage in that you can determine how much RAM you want to use for either the CPU or GPU, but that generally only mattered on console because the amount of RAM they were working with was small. Most mid range PCs probably have more combined RAM and VRAM than these new consoles.

It is a bigger deal, as the new APU's on the consoles allow the CPU and GPU to share all the ram between them with one unified pool of ram. There is no transfer time when the GPU needs data from the CPU, as they both access the same memory.

I don't know how big this will be in the future. While the advantage may make the most of the APU's these consoles have, PC's are still much faster on both fronts. I really don't know how this will play out. All I know is we'll have to wait and see.

It is possible, if it is a big problem, PC's will end up with different visual improvements and maybe a loss in other qualities.

 

[futurefields]

yeah, such an advantage that games still look worse than a 7850 equipped PC @ 1080p

 

[Childs]

It is a bigger deal, as the new APU's on the consoles allow the CPU and GPU to share all the ram between them with one unified pool of ram. There is no transfer time when the GPU needs data from the CPU, as they both access the same memory.

I don't know how big this will be in the future. While the advantage may make the most of the APU's these consoles have, PC's are still much faster on both fronts. I really don't know how this will play out. All I know is we'll have to wait and see.

It is possible, if it is a big problem, PC's will end up with different visual improvements and maybe a loss in other qualities.

I dont think it is that big of a deal since this was already done on the 360, and has been done on low end PCs for a while. Its more efficient for consoles because they cannot be upgraded with more RAM, so having the option to use more or less for GPU is better than a fixed number. I believe its more of a cost cutting measure than it is performance related.

 

[Spjut]

yeah, such an advantage that games still look worse than a 7850 equipped PC @ 1080p

Since when has a new console been "maxed" at release?
IIRC, Quake 4 and FEAR ran pretty badly on the 360

We've also had a knowledgeable guy like Timothy Lottes saying he's expecting the initial games to be just DX11 ports.

 

[mindbomb]

im not sure the ps4 has huma, i think it actually is more like integrated graphics where the 2 memories are sorta kept seperate despite physically being the same.

 

[Artic_King500]

Since when has a new console been "maxed" at release?
IIRC, Quake 4 and FEAR ran pretty badly on the 360

We've also had a knowledgeable guy like Timothy Lottes saying he's expecting the initial games to be just DX11 ports.

so you think a ps4 can compete with a top of the line pc

lets say a pc running 3x 780ti SLI

 

[Stuka87]

I dont think it is that big of a deal since this was already done on the 360, and has been done on low end PCs for a while. Its more efficient for consoles because they cannot be upgraded with more RAM, so having the option to use more or less for GPU is better than a fixed number. I believe its more of a cost cutting measure than it is performance related.

The 360 did not have unified memory. And no current PC's have unified memory. AMD will be releasing APU's for PC's soon with unified memory (Kaveri based APU's).

Shared memory is NOT the same as unified memory. I think you need to read up some before spreading incorrect information.

 

[Artic_King500]

The 360 did not have unified memory. And no current PC's have unified memory. AMD will be releasing APU's for PC's soon with unified memory (Kaveri based APU's).

Shared memory is NOT the same as unified memory. I think you need to read up some before spreading incorrect information.

so you think a ps4 can compete with a top of the line pc

lets say a pc running 3x 780ti SLI

Warning issued for trolling.
-- stahlhart

 

[Techhog]

The only advantage is the fact that that memory is GDDR5, at least compared to integrated graphics. The amount is an advantage too, but I won't say much more.

 

[bystander36]

I dont think it is that big of a deal since this was already done on the 360, and has been done on low end PCs for a while. Its more efficient for consoles because they cannot be upgraded with more RAM, so having the option to use more or less for GPU is better than a fixed number. I believe its more of a cost cutting measure than it is performance related.

We keep hearing from the dev's that because of this advantage, draw calls are happening 5-10 times faster. This is allowing them to add a lot more draw calls for the GPU, where currently, we are bottlenecked by this process on a PC.

Now the GPU is still slower, and can't handle as many draw calls as on a top end PC, but PC's are constantly CPU bottlenecked as a result of having to send data between the CPU and GPU.

What the OP is wondering, and we really have no idea how it'll play out, is if PC's are going to be able to handle console designed games. While consoles won't be able to render as well as a PC, they can do a lot more draw calls than a PC can. We may end up with games that port poorly. Games designed around a consoles strengths and not a PC's strength.

 

[Artic_King500]

The only advantage is the fact that that memory is GDDR5, at least compared to integrated graphics. The amount is an advantage too, but I won't say much more.

so you think a ps4 can compete with a top of the line pc

lets say a pc running 3x 780ti SLI

 

[Artic_King500]

if thats true Bystander...then why did Chris Roberts, who is making Star Citizen a PC game, viewed the next gen consoles as lesser platforms, graphics and performance wise

 

[Zodiark1593]

There is an advantage. Cost.

The flexibility will also be useful when it comes to large textures.

 

[Artic_King500]

so according to you guys the unified memory allows the ps4 to compete with 3 780ti sli

damm impressive..why continue to game on pc then

 

[VulgarDisplay]

if thats true Bystander...then why did Chris Roberts, who is making Star Citizen a PC game, viewed the next gen consoles as lesser platforms, graphics and performance wise

Because the consoles cost less that $400 to build. Find me a PC less than $400 that runs games as well. All your posts prior to this were weak troll attempts putting words into peoples mouths that said nothing close to "consoles are faster than tri 780ti ski.?

 

[blackened23]

so according to you guys the unified memory allows the ps4 to compete with 3 780ti sli

damm impressive..why continue to game on pc then

Pfft. Troll detected. Also, wrong forum. PS4 competes so well with tri SLi that it runs BF4 at 900p instead of resolutions far higher which are available on PC. 780 tri sli can run BF4 at 4k or 5760@1200 resolution with higher image quality. What would a PS4 do at 4k resolution? Choke at 1-2 fps. The PS4 can't even manage BF4 at 1080p, give me a break...... A standard single GPU such as a 7870 can run BF4 at 1080p with better image quality. The PS4 is a 400$ machine. It isn't ever coming close to a high end PC, but it will be OKAY for a 400$ price point.

 

[Artic_King500]

Because the consoles cost less that $400 to build. Find me a PC less than $400 that runs games as well. All your posts prior to this were weak troll attempts putting words into peoples mouths that said nothing close to "consoles are faster than tri 780ti ski.?

well you guys said that the ps4 has a unified memory advantage over the pc...

chris roberts said the pc is superior to consoles

which is it, im confused..

 

[poohbear]

So in 2~3 years when DDR5 replaces DDR3 for PCs, and by then the avg comp will have 32gb~64gb of DDR5 system ram, where will that leave these "next gen" consoles?

 

[BallaTheFeared]

The advantage of coding to the metal is pin point performance, and draw call reduction.


PS4 is already out classes by modern gaming systems, but not Intel/APU systems.

But even those will outclass PS4 in just a few years.


PS4 is decent, but if you think unified memory or hUMA or any of the other AMD marketing buzzwords are going to turn a apple into an orange you need to lay off the AMD Cool-Aid.

 

[Artic_King500]

So in 2~3 years when DDR5 replaces DDR3 for PCs, and by then the avg comp will have 32gb~64gb of DDR5 system ram, where will that leave these "next gen" consoles?

arn't their 20nm gpus coming out next year as well

 

[blackened23]

which is it, im confused..

No, you really aren't. Nice attempt at stirring the pot though, which you've done here before I might add.

 

[Artic_King500]

No, you really aren't. Nice attempt at stirring the pot though, which you've done here before I might add.

yes because some people said the unified architecture gives ps4 a boost.. and makes harder to port to pcc

plus the 8 gddr 5

plus coding to the metal..allowing it to possibly compete with 780ti sli 2x, 3x etc.

 

[VulgarDisplay]

No one has said that lol. Thread locked shortly is my guess.