Does the organic/free-range farm trend make "sustainable" sense?

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
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My morning paper had this interesting article that poses an argument I hadn't really thought about until I read it: If we assert that poverty and hunger are directly linked to the lack of usable land (particularly in the 3rd world) to grow crops and raise livestock, should we not disencourage the organic/free range farm model and instead focus on growing more food on less land?

The article below touches on three topics: First, on the effect of organic/free range farming on the Earth versus that of intensive, chemically-managed farms. Second, on the hypocrisy on campaigning against "fish farms" despite the widespread damage fishing in the wild does to the world's fish species. Third, on the politicization of genetically modified crops and how their non-use in the 3rd world is hurting more than it helps.

I can't argue against the basic logic of each point: One, we should use fewer resources, not more. Two, a sustainable albeit 'artificial' fish farm system beats wildfishing species into extinction. Three, what could possibly be holding GM crops back from Africa of all places?

I assume each point can be strongly repudiated, but I'm at a loss to think of them. Can anyone enlighten me and the rest of us?

From sci-fi tech, food for the masses

Intensive vs. Organic Farms

"Intensive agricultural production is the key," says Patrick Moore, co-founder and former Canadian president of Greenpeace, now chairman of Vancouver-based communications firm Greenspirit Strategies. "It's simple arithmetic: The more food you grow per acre, the less natural world you have to clear to do it."

The late Norman Borlaug, father of the Green Revolution that modernized farming, ending frequent famines, in India and Asia, illustrated it this way: in 1990, America produced 596 million tons of crops. Had it stuck with 1960 methods of farming, it would have needed 460 million more acres than in 1960, of fertile land. Only, there wasn't 460 million more acres of good-quality land, so it would have been millions more yet, of poorer quality land.

"We would have moved into marginal grazing areas and plowed up things that wouldn't be productive in the long run. We would have had to move into rolling mountainous country and chop down our forests," he once told Reason Magazine.

With advances in agriculture, farmers instead doubled output in 30 years, using 25 million fewer acres. Mr. Borlaug, in addition to being credited for saving a billion lives by introducing fertilizers, pesticides, and seed genetics to Latin America and Asia (he won a Nobel peace prize for it,) spared millions of hectares of forests from being razed for farmland.

At November's UN World Summit on Food Security, economists estimated that world must double current food output by 2050 to feed a population of 9 billion, many increasingly demanding Western-quality diets. For developing countries, using farming methods circa 1860, never mind 1960, this means more than doubling farmland.


Fish Farms

While Western environmentalists lionize unrefined, organic farms, one of the best ways to protect our environment is by spreading 21st century farming technology and corporate agricultural products. Food production that truly sustains the planet is the very stuff that the eco-priests decry: fish farms, genetically modified foods, and farms relying more, not less, on corporate-made chemicals.

Pound for pound, acre for acre, fish farms output more food, with fewer inputs and emissions, than land farms, without ravaging oceans or clearing land. "What most people don't realize is that fish are so much more efficient at converting into food," says Mr. Moore: their cold blood and not having to fight gravity makes seafood emit less than half the greenhouse gases of equivalent amounts of land-based meat.

Just as man evolved from hunter-gatherer to domesticating livestock, it only makes sense to evolve our seafood cultivation, says Sebastian Belle, president of the Maine Aquaculture Association. Sea conservation groups say bottom-trawling is devastating millions of miles of aquatic ecosystems. The UN Food and Agriculture Organization estimates over 70% of fish species are either maximally exploited or depleted.

While wild fishing declines, aquaculture is flourishing; accounting now for 42% of seafood production, it is expected to exceed 50% in the next decade, according to the Worldwatch Institute.

But environmental groups are arguably the biggest political obstacles to its expansion, pressuring governments and consumers to resist it by claiming that fish farms are unhealthy or contaminate wild species. No such risks have ever been substantiated, Mr. Moore notes. What's astonishing, he says, is that organizations claiming to care about ocean life are, essentially, pushing to keep us straining sea life, hunting fish, like buffalo, to near extinction, rather than sustainably growing our own.


Does Africa Need Genetically Modified Crops?

Corn, or maize, is the most common crop on the planet. The ability to artificially tinker with its genetics "make it easier to breed new varieties of corn that produce higher yields or are more tolerant to extreme heat, drought, or other conditions," explained the centre's director, Richard Wilson.

Monsanto is already engineering drought-tolerant breeds. Corn tailor-made for the most challenging growing conditions could bring bumper crops to perennially undernourished African regions. Only, as things stand, it won't: Genetically modified (GM) crops are not legal most everywhere in Africa.

If there is anywhere desperate for better crops, it is Africa, where grain yields per acre, according to the Yale Center for the Study of Globalization, are one-fifth that of those in Europe and the United States.

As Western harvests improve, Africa's are shrinking: the World Resources Institute reported in 2006 that, per capita, African farms produced 19% less in 2005 than in 1970. Where the typical farmer devotes at least 90% of her small plot of land to simply feeding her family, the growth in Africa's population, expected to nearly double by 2050 to 1.7 billion, will, without modern, high-yield agriculture techniques, mean vast wilderness lost to crude farms.

Until the mid-1990s, some African governments were preparing to introduce the same genetically modified, pest-resistant, high-yield crops Americans and Canadians were adopting, when, again, environmental NGOs interfered, campaigning against what they branded Frankenfoods.
 

Patranus

Diamond Member
Apr 15, 2007
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If you have consumers willing to buy your product, who cares? Simply the free market in action.
 

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
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Washington U recently completed the genome for corn (published in the current issue of Science), probably because we're in the same town as Monsanto. This has huge potential to improve quality of life in developing nations with no known negatives, yet the WashU gene sequencing center was being picketed when the news came out.

There are negative side effects of some chemical management methods. Most have to do with nitrification of waterways due to runoff. Research into methods which may solve these problems using watershed treatment methods are well underway. Assuming we can keep these chemicals out of rivers and oceans, there is virtually no downside to using them to improve crop yields.

As with most trends, the orgranic/green food movement is simply another way to exploit the ignorance and pocketbooks of yuppies. Why buy a $1 bag of ice from the gas station when I can buy a $4 bag of "glacier ice" from Whole Foods which is half the size and impress all my neighbors with how I'm saving the planet? Don't get me wrong - I do some shopping at Whole Foods because my wife has food allergies and they have the best selection of foods for her, but it's BS to say that shopping there is going to save the planet.

/rants and anecdotes
 

Schadenfroh

Elite Member
Mar 8, 2003
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Skeptoid has a number of episodes dedicating to debunking many of the "advantages" of "locally grown" produce and "organic" foods while pointing out the many disadvantages.

http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4019#
http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4166
http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4162

Basically, "locally grown produce" contributes to increased carbon emissions and "organic" farming increases the risk of food borne illness.

But, I cannot fault people for trying to make money off of people supposedly going green, unless they start falsely advertising their products.
 

Ayah

Platinum Member
Jan 1, 2006
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I have to point out that farmed salmon tastes like crap compared to wild salmon.
 

fallout man

Golden Member
Nov 20, 2007
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Before we judge which method of food production is most efficient, let's remind ourselves that producing meat is exponentially less efficient than producing plant-based food if you're into Calorie counting.

In an energy efficient world, we'd all be vegan. I hate the idea of that, simply because I really really love meats. I love them! You'll have to pry that sausage from my cold, dead hands (ho homo).

As a consumer, I often have a choice between "organic," and regularly farmed vegetables. I choose to purchase "organic" vegetables, more often than not, and choose to pay the price premium that comes with the tag. I do this because I wish to support farmers who make life more difficult and complicated for themselves to produce my food without using too many chemicals.

If I have a choice between "free-range" and regular eggs or poultry, I absolutely always choose free-range because I believe that industrialized poultry-farming is really fucking cruel, and I literally don't want to ingest the compounded stress hormones these animals experienced in their miserable life with my every bite. Many folks don't know where their food comes from (and it's not "from the supermarket, wrapped in a foam tray with cling-wrap"). Poultry factories are disgusting.

The same idea goes for red meat. I love it. I prefer to buy it free-range raised, or at least hormone free, but as for all of the above items, I don't go out of my way to seek it out. Also, the organic/free-range meat is really really expensive.

I live comfortably, but I only have myself to feed--I don't think I've used a coupon at the supermarket in 15 years. Many families, here in the States, are pinching pennies day-to-day. The extra expense, on whatever grounds, is not justifiable to them, (while people in Haiti literally eat mud).

I choose to buy foodstuffs that are less "efficient" to produce, and I pay the premium for what I perceive to be taste and overall satisfaction with what I put in my mouth (no homo). While its less efficient, I don't believe the process of production does any HARM. Sure, you can argue that the extra $2.00 per pound of whatever I pay at the market actually encourages inefficient farming, thereby starving the third-world. Tell that to the guy buying a $5000 watch, while a plastic Casio would have sufficed. The money he saved could have been donated to feed/clothe/educate so many...

Furthermore, if you look into it, a great deal of starvation around the world is due to poor infrastructure rather than a global lack of food. How much more efficient is it to throw extra inventory in the US into the dumpster, versus having shipped to some God-forsaken place in Africa? Hundreds of tons of perfectly good food are "expired," even if donated, before they can get to their destination. Organic ribs are the least of our problems.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
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If we assert that poverty and hunger are directly linked to the lack of usable land
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I stopped reading after that. It's called sloth, lack of ROL and crime. You ever been to Africa? I have and when you try growing something in your garden they steal it or otherwise trash it. Rhodesia went from bread basket of Africa to nothing. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.
 
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Martin

Lifer
Jan 15, 2000
29,178
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The unstated assumption here is that we must achieve growth at any cost, yet no one bothers to justify this need for growth. So if someone chooses free-range chicken because they think regular poultry farms are cruel, or they choose some organic produce because it tastes better, that's not acceptable because that's not efficient.

If you have to start sacrificing on your quality of life, then it's time to start questioning that need for constant growth.
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
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It's sustainable in terms of resources. But not in efficency. I grow my own veggies for taste alone. For me using artificial ferts is less expensive and much more efficient. I can produce more for less money and there is no differnce in quality because I am QA.

It's all about yield vs cost IMHO. I only produce for my own and practically give away excess.

If it matters my state just recorded a record year of production revenue. KY.
 
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Schadenfroh

Elite Member
Mar 8, 2003
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I absolutely always choose free-range because I believe that industrialized poultry-farming is really fucking cruel
Such is the life of most "free-range" chickens.
http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4047
The vast majority of chickens sold as free range are simply given some access to outdoor space in approximately the same proportion that their higher market price justifies any reduced farming efficiency. Often it means little more than a window, and that's perfectly legal. Note that free range chickens have nothing to do with organic standards. Free range chickens can be organic or non-organic. That all depends on the food they're given and whether or not they receive antibacterial treatment
 

RU482

Lifer
Apr 9, 2000
12,689
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If you have consumers willing to buy your product, who cares? Simply the free market in action.

while I like that theory, it does not account for special interests interfering with the market. Sometimes the best product is not the successful one.
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
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while I like that theory, it does not account for special interests interfering with the market. Sometimes the best product is not the successful one.

True. It's most likely the best marketed one. aka organic. Organic is pure bullshit marketing. If one produces their own food one knows this.

Can I interest you in some monster cables or another product that makes you feel good about your purchase?
 
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fallout man

Golden Member
Nov 20, 2007
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True. It's most likely the best marketed one. aka organic. Organic is pure bullshit marketing. If one produces their own food one knows this.

Can I interest you in some monster cables or another product that makes you feel good about your purchase?

Why do you hate free-market economy?

Most importantly, why do you hate America?
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
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What we need is genetically engineered chlorophyll skin so lunch can be had under a sun lamp.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
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There's merit on both sides of this argument. I think the most valid concern regarding sustainability from the organic farming camp is the use of monoculture crops in modern farming that necessarily requires the use of so many chemicals/fertilizers/antibiotics/etc in order to protect the ridiculously shallow gene pools of these single varieties that we have made ourselves so dependent on. There is a strong argument that greater genetic diversity in the farm products we choose to grow/raise would make large-scale chemical use less necessary without reducing production per acre.
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
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Such is the life of most "free-range" chickens.
http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4047

i was going to post this. "free-range" chickens are nto what people think. when you say free-range they think the chickens are walking in the yard etc. NOPE. they have to have access to the outside. but teh size of of the yard is not defined. it could be a 1x1ft area adn be considered free range (also not that is not PER chicken. 100 chickens can be in the coup with the 1x1 area).
 

daishi5

Golden Member
Feb 17, 2005
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I don't have the link right now, but I read in a UN report on food production that we can double the amount of farmable land without touching any "sensitive" lands. Sensitive being things like rain forest, or other stuff that we want to preserve. When I get home later I can grab the actual report, but no I don't think that lack of arable land is a problem.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
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If you have consumers willing to buy your product, who cares? Simply the free market in action.

It would be ridiculously naive to assume that the heavily-subsidized farming industry in the US operates in a free market, or that it even wants to.
 

nobodyknows

Diamond Member
Sep 28, 2008
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There's merit on both sides of this argument. I think the most valid concern regarding sustainability from the organic farming camp is the use of monoculture crops in modern farming that necessarily requires the use of so many chemicals/fertilizers/antibiotics/etc in order to protect the ridiculously shallow gene pools of these single varieties that we have made ourselves so dependent on. There is a strong argument that greater genetic diversity in the farm products we choose to grow/raise would make large-scale chemical use less necessary without reducing production per acre.

Got a link to that "strong argument" because it smells of total BS to me.
 

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
32,155
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Got a link to that "strong argument" because it smells of total BS to me.


If everone is raising one strain of wheat and a fungus or viral infection pops up that that wheat strain is susceptible to then, bam ,food shortage.
If everyone is raising different strains then its just a minor irritation.