Does the availability of the i3-8100 (3.6Ghz 4C/4T) CPU, and in a few months, cheaper boards...

Aug 25, 2001
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#1
Does that take the wind out of the sales (pun intended) of the refurb / off-lease Sandy / Ivy quad-core tower PCs?

Much has been discussed on YouTube, about buying a cheap quad-core tower, Sandy / Ivy refurb / off-lease, and throwing in an SSD and storage drive, and 8-16GB of DDR3, and using the COA to re-install the OS.

I have a thread in General Hardware here where I did just that, for a friend of mine.

I was thinking, yeah, great deal at $150 or less, for quad-core Intel CPU, some RAM / HDD, chassis, PSU, and if you luck out, a working COA affixed.

But if you prefer to purchase new, wouldn't an i3-8100 for $110-120, a B360 / H370 board for $60 (estimated price), and 8-16GB of DD4 (hopefully prices start to go down?), be better, because you're getting the newest architecture, and "New".
 

SPBHM

Diamond Member
Sep 12, 2012
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#2
given how cheaply you can get some of those PCs with a working PSU/case/HD and so on, and that you can run DDR3 I don't think it really changes things all that much.
 

epsilon84

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Aug 29, 2010
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It would have some impact for sure, but not a big one IMO. There would still be a substantial price gap between a new i3 8100 system and a cheap as chips 2nd hand Sandy Bridge based system.

I'm a bit of a bargain hunter and recently scored myself a used Dell SFF with an i7 2600, 16GB DDR3, 640GB HDD and a low profile GTX 1050 for under $200US.

There is no way you can come close to that kind of value with a new system, especially with inflated DRR4 prices.
 
Mar 27, 2009
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I'm a bit of a bargain hunter and recently scored myself a used Dell SFF with an i7 2600, 16GB DDR3, 640GB HDD and a low profile GTX 1050 for under $200US.

There is no way you can come close to that kind of value with a new system, especially with inflated DRR4 prices.
I've seen some low prices also---> https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/e8600-vs-q9300-both-at-stock-speed.2506199/#post-38895626

But for a computer that is only used 2 to 3 hours a day, even up to $150 for well sorted out Core i5 3470 Desktop could be a good value.

With that mentioned, I think new is good to have if the person is going to use it 8 hours a day (especially if it is work related).
 
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Harry Potter would buy the greatest release just as you would pay to go see his movie. Harry Potter would want you to also buy his signature series underwear with his name on it.

People who contemplate computer usage are the people who get nothing done. The people who move on in life and gain money are the people who use their PC instead of thinking about how it can be used.
 
Mar 27, 2009
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#6
It does seem that there are two areas that are growing the fastest:

1. Workstation
2. Phone (even a $130 Smartphone (sale priced iPhone SE 32GB) can do quite a bit)

It does leave the question where does the classic 4C/4T desktop fit in? (Office and console alternative*?)

*PCs > consoles as there is so much more that can be done with a PC, but how many hours per day is a console alternative PC going to be used compared to laptop or phone?
 
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whm1974

Diamond Member
Jul 24, 2016
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#7
I doubt it since people who buy refurbished system and those who buy new are in different markets.
 
Aug 25, 2001
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#8
I doubt it since people who buy refurbished system and those who buy new are in different markets.
Do you think that your average Craigslist customer, is looking for a used PC, or a "new custom" PC? I'm curious. (*)

(*) I've tried selling some of my newly-built custom PCs, and I never even seem to get nibbles.
 

whm1974

Diamond Member
Jul 24, 2016
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#9
No offense Larry, but your custom rigs tend to be low end and why would someone buy from you when they can get a decent spec refurb for the same price or even less?
 
Mar 27, 2009
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New consumer Prebuilts are going to get better as well. This one with Core i5 7400 is always on sale for $400 free shipping at either at Newegg, Fry's or Micro Center:

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883101530&ignorebbr=1

http://www.frys.com/product/9109958?source=google&gclid=CMSm1oa8n9MCFUaTfgod5nIMMA

http://www.microcenter.com/product/474800/Aspire_ATC-780A-UR12_Desktop_Computer

(Uses a 300W FSP PSU that is standard ATX and thus can be upgraded to something more powerful)

.....And pretty soon it should have a Core i5 8400 in it. (Previous version was a Core i5 6400)
 
Mar 27, 2009
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Do you think that your average Craigslist customer, is looking for a used PC, or a "new custom" PC? I'm curious. (*)

(*) I've tried selling some of my newly-built custom PCs, and I never even seem to get nibbles.
If I was in the PC building business I would be thinking about making workstations. (reason: Every time I read a thread about a person and their custom home workstation it usually says something like the following... "I can't be bothered with making it myself....because every hour I spend building the machine is one less hour I can do my work", etc. etc. etc.)
 

whm1974

Diamond Member
Jul 24, 2016
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#12
New consumer Prebuilts are going to get better as well. This one with Core i5 7400 is always on sale for $400 free shipping at either at Newegg, Fry's or Micro Center:

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883101530&ignorebbr=1

http://www.frys.com/product/9109958?source=google&gclid=CMSm1oa8n9MCFUaTfgod5nIMMA

http://www.microcenter.com/product/474800/Aspire_ATC-780A-UR12_Desktop_Computer

(Uses a 300W FSP PSU that is standard ATX and thus can be upgraded to something more powerful)

.....And pretty soon it should have a Core i5 8400 in it. (Previous version was a Core i5 6400)
Not bad for $400. It would be hard to build a Windows system for that little, actually it's impossible once you factor on the cost of Windows.
 
Mar 27, 2009
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Not bad for $400. It would be hard to build a Windows system for that little, actually it's impossible once you factor on the cost of Windows.
It is a good deal. The only downside (that I can see) is Acer only supplied two SATA ports (both occupied) and an M.2 SATA slot (empty) on the current Skylake/Kabylake motherboard (which uses H110 chipset).
 
Aug 25, 2001
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#14
No offense Larry, but your custom rigs tend to be low end and why would someone buy from you when they can get a decent spec refurb for the same price or even less?
Because OEM PCs suck, and 99% of my custom PC's, even the "low end" (if that's how you describe a Ryzen 3 1200 OCed to 3.8Ghz), have SSDs in them for OS drives, something that makes even a mediocre CPU seem "snappy".
 
Mar 27, 2009
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#15
But if you prefer to purchase new, wouldn't an i3-8100 for $110-120, a B360 / H370 board for $60 (estimated price), and 8-16GB of DD4 (hopefully prices start to go down?), be better, because you're getting the newest architecture, and "New".
I would also consider the storage options too.

Is 1 NVMe M.2 enough or would it be better to have 2 NVMe M.2 ? I did see at least one modestly priced B250 uATX with support for 2 NVMe M.2.

In contrast, the H270 boards with two M.2 NVMe were all ATX and at least $100. However, H270 does support RAID which might also be helpful to some people. (However, if already going this far....how much of a jump is Z270?)
 
Mar 27, 2009
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#16
No offense Larry, but your custom rigs tend to be low end and why would someone buy from you when they can get a decent spec refurb for the same price or even less?
Because OEM PCs suck, and 99% of my custom PC's, even the "low end" (if that's how you describe a Ryzen 3 1200 OCed to 3.8Ghz), have SSDs in them for OS drives, something that makes even a mediocre CPU seem "snappy".
You can put an SSD in those as well (though they can't, of course, use NVMe*) and run them full speed as most Sandy Bridge Refurb business desktops will have at least one SATA 6 Gbps**. The better ones also support RAID (unless the OEM segments as Dell does with the Optiplex 790 and 7010 vs. Optiplex 990 and 9010) which can also be useful (Eg, two 3.5" HDD in RAID-0 or RAID-1).

*Exception being some LGA 2011 Workstations like the HP Zx20 (ie, Z420, Z620, Z820) which can use the Samsung 950 Pro NVMe ( legacy OPROM).

**Dell Optiplex 390 and 3010 uses H61 Express, so it only has SATA 3 Gbps.
 

whm1974

Diamond Member
Jul 24, 2016
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#17
Because OEM PCs suck, and 99% of my custom PC's, even the "low end" (if that's how you describe a Ryzen 3 1200 OCed to 3.8Ghz), have SSDs in them for OS drives, something that makes even a mediocre CPU seem "snappy".
Well you do have a point there and while I do agree with you, most consumers do not know. Hell most are probably not even aware what an SSD is and why they will want one.
 

Ratman6161

Senior member
Mar 21, 2008
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#18
If I was in the PC building business I would be thinking about making workstations. (reason: Every time I read a thread about a person and their custom home workstation it usually says something like the following... "I can't be bothered with making it myself....because every hour I spend building the machine is one less hour I can do my work", etc. etc. etc.)
The people of that mindset buying high end workstations also want support...often same business day on site...cause time is money. You can't offer that building systems in your basement.

On the other end of the scale, you can't compete on price with dell and HP in the ultra cheap front if for no other reason than the low price they pay for windows licenses.

Building your own pretty much has to be for the love.
 
Mar 27, 2009
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#19
If I was in the PC building business I would be thinking about making workstations. (reason: Every time I read a thread about a person and their custom home workstation it usually says something like the following... "I can't be bothered with making it myself....because every hour I spend building the machine is one less hour I can do my work", etc. etc. etc.)
The people of that mindset buying high end workstations also want support...often same business day on site...cause time is money. You can't offer that building systems in your basement.

On the other end of the scale, you can't compete on price with dell and HP in the ultra cheap front if for no other reason than the low price they pay for windows licenses.

Building your own pretty much has to be for the love.
Oh yeah, I knew about the importance of support for Businesses. That is why I wrote Home Workstation.

With that mentioned, I was really impressed on how HP streamlined the parts replacement process on their HPZ800 Workstation. (No tools are needed and check out how fast and easy it is to swap out the PSU. It is customer seviceable (Just slide out old one and slide in new one). Would like to see more DIY parts designed like the HP (Maybe Corsair could be the first one to do this?)
 
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Mar 27, 2009
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#20
@Ratman6161

Regarding the low end, I think the Acer Pre-built Desktop with Core i5 7400 that typically goes for $400 on sale is pretty good standard to go by. With a Core i5 8400 and single M.2 PCIe 3.0 x 4 NVMe slot (assuming H310 chipset supports PCIe 3.0) replacing the single M.2 SATA slot on the current version it would useful for many tasks.

SIDE NOTE: (Assuming the Coffee Lake version uses the same case) If the 3.5" hard drive is re-positioned to the top 3.5" bay (on the vertical mounting plate) it should be able to handle a pretty long video card.

 
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Jun 23, 2005
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Unfortunately, 16gb of 3200 speed ram is about twice the price of 16gb of 1600 speed ram. But not twice the performance! Ram prices are a big deterrent against new system builds sadly.
 
Aug 25, 2001
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most consumers do not know
I think that's my biggest problem. They can see the difference between Pentium and i3 or i5, because Intel promotes those differences. But an SSD? Most consumers think, "what's that"? (I've pretty-much had to explain why an SSD is faster than a HDD, and why they would want one.)
 
Aug 25, 2001
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#23
Regarding the low end, I think the Acer Pre-built Desktop with Core i5 7400 that typically goes for $400 on sale is pretty good standard to go by. With a Core i5 8400 and single M.2 PCIe 3.0 x 4 NVMe slot (assuming H310 chipset supports PCIe 3.0) replacing the single M.2 SATA slot on the current version it would useful for many tasks.

SIDE NOTE: (Assuming the Coffee Lake version uses the same case) If the 3.5" hard drive is re-positioned to the top 3.5" bay (on the vertical mounting plate) it should be able to handle a pretty long video card.

Those really don't seem like half-bad machines. A CFL update, with a 6C/6T i5-8400, and 8/16GB of DDR4, all you would need is an SSD (if they include an M.2 PCI-E that would be great!), a dGPU, and a PSU powerful enough to power it.
 

whm1974

Diamond Member
Jul 24, 2016
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#24
I think that's my biggest problem. They can see the difference between Pentium and i3 or i5, because Intel promotes those differences. But an SSD? Most consumers think, "what's that"? (I've pretty-much had to explain why an SSD is faster than a HDD, and why they would want one.)
Speed is the major advantage of SSDs over HDDs, but the much lower noise level is also a big plus as well.
 
Aug 25, 2001
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#25
Speed is the major advantage of SSDs over HDDs, but the much lower noise level is also a big plus as well.
In laptops, they are essential, IMHO, due to being shock-proof. HDDs, they tend to die when you drop them a foot.
 


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