Does SSD lose 80-90% gain over HDD without AHCI?

[omega3]

I've edited this topic.. see my latest post below with reference to Samsung white paper to understand and please comment

-- edited --

 

[VirtualLarry]

I have an HP dv9790eb laptop and the hdd drive is dead so i will have it repaired at my local pc shop.

I'm thinking about replacing it with an SSD drive but therefore I would like to know if my motherboard supports AHCI mode.

Since my laptop is dead, I can't go in the bios to see which mobo it has.. therefore is there a way to see that online?

You make little sense. Did the laptop die itself, or just the HDD? If it was just the HDD, you should still be able to access the BIOS.

And if your local PC shop is repairing it, why not ask them?

Either way, an SSD would be a step up, assuming you have Windows 7 or newer, regardless of whether or not your laptop support AHCI mode. SSDs work mostly fine in IDE mode too.

 

[Ketchup]

+1. SSD is not dependent on AHCI to perform well.

 

[omega3]

You make little sense. Did the laptop die itself, or just the HDD? If it was just the HDD, you should still be able to access the BIOS.

And if your local PC shop is repairing it, why not ask them?

Either way, an SSD would be a step up, assuming you have Windows 7 or newer, regardless of whether or not your laptop support AHCI mode. SSDs work mostly fine in IDE mode too.

+1. SSD is not dependent on AHCI to perform well.

From what i read AHCI is needed in order for TRIM in windows 7 to work, therefore i thought it mattered.

 

[Ketchup]

From what i read AHCI is needed in order for TRIM in windows 7 to work, therefore i thought it mattered.

The TRIM command is dependent on the SSD itself, and the operating system supporting it. It is not dependent on the host controller, and AHCI is not a requirement. TRIM is natively supported in Windows 7, as well as Linux since kernel 2.6.33.

https://forum-en.msi.com/faq/article/ide-sata-and-ahci-all-you-need-to-know

 

[denis280]

From what i read AHCI is needed in order for TRIM in windows 7 to work, therefore i thought it mattered.

NO!Ketchup Just gave you the answer

 

[vailr]

+1. SSD is not dependent on AHCI to perform well.

Sorry, but it was my impression that SSD's get better input/output speeds when AHCI mode is enabled.

To O.P.: let us know if you succeed in accessing the laptop bios. That should be possible, regardless of whether the hard drive is working or not working.

Enabling AHCI mode should provide some kind of benefit, otherwise why would Intel have invented it as an alternative to IDE mode?

 

[omega3]

You make little sense. Did the laptop die itself, or just the HDD? If it was just the HDD, you should still be able to access the BIOS.

And if your local PC shop is repairing it, why not ask them?

Either way, an SSD would be a step up, assuming you have Windows 7 or newer, regardless of whether or not your laptop support AHCI mode. SSDs work mostly fine in IDE mode too.

+1. SSD is not dependent on AHCI to perform well.

From what i read AHCI is needed in order for TRIM in windows 7 to work, therefore i thought it mattered.

According to a white paper from Samsung it does seem to matter:

Maximize SATA Capabilities with AHCI

AHCI, Advanced Host Controller Interface, is an open interface championed by Intel to allow the use of advanced SATA features (e.g. NCQ, hot plugging, power management). Basically, it defines a standard method for storage devices from various vendors to communicate with the host system, allowing software engineers to take advantage of specialized functionality. In order to enjoy the full performance of your Samsung 840 or 840 PRO Series SSD, AHCI mode must be enabled on your system through the BIOS.

If AHCI is not properly configured on your system, the Random Read/Write performance of your SSD will be limited to a Queue Depth of 1 (QD1), severely limiting the performance improvements you will notice over a conventional Hard Disk Drive (HDD) while multi-tasking (by 80-90%). Since the latest versions of Windows, including Windows Vista and Windows 7, include standard AHCI drivers, there is no need to install AHCI drivers manually. Some older systems, however, may not support AHCI even if they are equipped with a SATA 3 (6Gb/s) interface. Samsung’s Magician software can help you determine whether or not AHCI is supported and/or enabled on your PC.

Am i getting it that if you don't use AHCI, you loose 80-90% gain over standard HDD.. seems relevant, no?

 

[Ketchup]

Sorry, but it was my impression that SSD's get better input/output speeds when AHCI mode is enabled...

OK, that line needs a qualification for others. In this thread, for what the OP is coming from, SSD will be fine if he does not have AHCI available. SSD's DO perform better with it.

And, on a side note, a motherboard of that era would/should have AHCI.

 

[Ketchup]

Omega3, hopefully my last post answered your question. But it makes things confusing when you totally wipe out the initial post/question.

 

[omega3]

see below

 

[omega3]

Sorry, but it was my impression that SSD's get better input/output speeds when AHCI mode is enabled.

To O.P.: let us know if you succeed in accessing the laptop bios. That should be possible, regardless of whether the hard drive is working or not working.

Enabling AHCI mode should provide some kind of benefit, otherwise why would Intel have invented it as an alternative to IDE mode?

Omega3, hopefully my last post answered your question. But it makes things confusing when you totally wipe out the initial post/question.

Actually that HP laptop has been disconnected from power for over a year , what should i do to access the BIOS on it to see if it supports AHCI.. can i just connect it to power.. how long should i charge to load the BIOS battery and will it just work again like that?

@Ketchup and others: Sorry for deleting my original post, but if you read the bold text in the Samsung white paper, aren't they saying that without AHCI you loose 80-90% over regular HDDS or am I reading it wrong?

 

[PhIlLy ChEeSe]

Its a locked Bios, the specs on that lappy are A 250HHD its not an SSD. Anything else you need to know? reference link
http://www.cnet.com/products/hp-pav...remium-4-gb-ram-250-gb-hdd-plus-250-gb/specs/

 

[omega3]

Its a locked Bios, the specs on that lappy are A 250HHD its not an SSD. Anything else you need to know? reference link
http://www.cnet.com/products/hp-pav...remium-4-gb-ram-250-gb-hdd-plus-250-gb/specs/

Hey.. that's the specs of my old dv9790eb allright :awe: however it doesn't say anything about the mobo so i still don't know if it would support AHCI or not :'(.. can you guess by other specs about that?

As i said, my lappy has been disconnected for over a year so how can i get access to its bios? Just connect to power and charge.. I don't wanna damage it obviously

 

[Ketchup]

See if this discussion helps:

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2412455&highlight=

And to answer your question, plug your laptop into power and check the BIOS settings. But it should be there. See if this thread helps:

http://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/Desktop-Hardware/dv9700-bios-ahci-advanced-settings-needed/td-p/1197827

 

[VirtualLarry]

Most desktop workloads are QD1 or pretty close to it, so for most things (not database or VM servers), IDE mode is not a serious limitation. Sure, it can be faster in AHCI, and use it if you have it, but it's not a deal-breaker. Even at QD1, an SSD still blows away any mechanical HDD for responsiveness, due to sub 0.1ms seek times.

Edit: Also, lack of AHCI doesn't mean lack of TRIM support. MS's IDE and AHCI built-in drivers both support TRIM. Systems using a different vendor southbridge I/O controller that require vendor drivers, are up to the vendor to support TRIM passthrough in their drivers. Intel does, I don't know about AMD or Nvidia.

 

[Fred B]

Without AHCI the ssd and hd can do higher que depth and can do Tagged Command Queuing so i think 80 procent is to much . And often the only way to find out is running a benchmark and see the QD score being low .

 

[redzo]

https://forum-en.msi.com/faq/article/ide-sata-and-ahci-all-you-need-to-know

I was always under the impression that AHCI is mandatory for TRIM.

 

[omega3]

Well, I just entered the BIOS of my HP dv9790eb.. and there is no setting for AHCI .. actually HP BIOS is VERY limited in options so i don't know if they have AHCI set on by default or not.

Is there a way to verify in your OS if your mobo supports AHCI or not?

I'm not speaking about enabling the driver which you can always do.. i mean see first if the damn mobo has it enabled and supports it in the first place?

 

[omega3]

​

Its a locked Bios, the specs on that lappy are A 250HHD its not an SSD. Anything else you need to know? reference link
http://www.cnet.com/products/hp-pav...remium-4-gb-ram-250-gb-hdd-plus-250-gb/specs/

I know it has a HDD.. just want to replace it with an SSD and wanted to know if my hardware supports AHCI or not?

 

[vailr]

I know it has a HDD.. just want to replace it with an SSD and wanted to know if my hardware supports AHCI or not?

A Core 2 Duo chipset should allow having AHCI mode as a selectable bios option. However: if those bios settings were intentionally "locked out" from end-user access by HP, you'll have to get by with the default IDE mode setting. Although: there could be an updated bios firmware available from HP, so check for that.

 

[Ketchup]

A Core 2 Duo chipset should allow having AHCI mode as a selectable bios option. However: if those bios settings were intentionally "locked out" from end-user access by HP, you'll have to get by with the default IDE mode setting. Although: there could be an updated bios firmware available from HP, so check for that.

Agreed. There are 6 BIOS updates available for your model since initial release. I don't see one that specifically states adding this option, but based on the other updates I would highly recommend running the latest.

 

[PhIlLy ChEeSe]

I know it has a HDD.. just want to replace it with an SSD and wanted to know if my hardware supports AHCI or not?

Not sure its worth it, you'll still have a new SSD so I guess it cant really hurt huh? Then again you posted this in a mother board section not hard drive section, might find better help there.

 

[razel]

Is there a way to verify in your OS if your mobo supports AHCI or not?

It's not a direct test of ACHI, but I'd run a quick small 1GB 2 repeat test run of CrystalDiskMark's 4k and 4k32q read. If the 4k32q read is much higher than 4k, then at least ACHI is working. 4k32q is 4k 32 queue depth, 4k is 1 queue depth.

As for you laptop's limited BIOS settings. I feel ya... They don't always list it as ACHI, it may sometimes be called 'HDD compatibility'

 

[omega3]

Agreed. There are 6 BIOS updates available for your model since initial release. I don't see one that specifically states adding this option, but based on the other updates I would highly recommend running the latest.

Thanks again.. do I only need to install the latest version of the bios, like will all previous updates be included in the latest one.. i assume so, but just wanted to ask to make sure